USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread

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Post by El Gunner Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:29 pm

@sportsczy wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:And take a look at this stat so that you understand a bit why police in the US tend to be especially aggressive in the past 2 years:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/584748/law-enforcement-officer-fatalities-in-the-us/

Also, take a look at the violent crime rate in the US by year from 1990 to 2019 before you make a judgment on very biased media reporting about the effectiveness of law enforcement in the US:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/

And tell me how you can refute this data please...

where are the rates for murders and harassment by cops and petty convictions?

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Post by sportsczy Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:47 am

The category "violent crimes" includes murders. Here's the legal definition https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/crimes/violent-crime

Petty convictions aren't counted UNLESS someone was threatened with violence, which then qualifies it as a "Violent Crime".
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Post by Young Kaz Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:15 pm

I know Chauvin better be guilty in 15 minutes....god help this country if he isnt.

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Post by LeVersacci Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:11 pm

@Young Kaz wrote:I know Chauvin better be guilty in 15 minutes....god help this country if he isnt.
Disgusting pig. Hope he gets raped and killed in prison.
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Post by LeVersacci Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:19 pm

 USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread - Page 35 EzclZQIVEAQtD6I?format=jpg&name=large

 USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread - Page 35 Whew-494x348
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Post by El Gunner Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:59 am

only took forever
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Post by McLewis Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:43 am

We don't even have time to celebrate the Chauvin verdict because this happened as it was being announced in Columbus, Ohio:



What we know:

- Her name was Makhia Bryant.

- She was living in a foster house and was being threatened by some women who came there to do her harm.

- She called the police, her mother and her grandmother for help.

- She armed herself with a knife to defend herself from the attackers.

-According to bystanders, including a family member that witnessed it, Makhia dropped the knife when police arrived.

- According to bystanders, including a family member that witnessed it, the cops saw the knife next to Makhia and shot her 4 times in the chest, killing her instantly.

- According to bystanders, including a family member that witnessed it, police said nothing to her. No orders, no warnings.

- As a crowd formed and began lamenting about what happened, the 3 cops on the scene shouted back "Blue Live Matter".

EDIT: Bodycam footage has been released and it appears to contradict the above account of the bystanders.

The bodycam footage shows that Makhia was facing 2 women. She pushed down 1 woman who was attacking her as police pulled up and was turning around to face someone else that was attacking her. At this point Makhia was armed with the knife. Police shot and killed her as she was turning, with the knife, towards the 2nd woman. The justification was that they were protecting the 2nd woman from Makhia.

As with other shootings, the bodycam footage is available if you want to see it. I've watched it several times to make sure I understood what was happening.

I suppose this is what I'm left with: Makhia was the one who called the police for help. She will be made to be aggressor here, but that doesn't track for me. Aggressors don't call the cops on themselves. To me, it looked like 2 women were ganging up on Makhia and she was defending herself with that knife when the cops got there. Contrary to bystander accounts, the orders of "Get down" can be heard, but who was it aimed at? Not sure it was Makhia. Not even sure she heard it. Even if she did, the time between the order and the shots was very very short. Even if she had heard and tried to comply, it would not have been fast enough. She'd still be dead.

There has to be a better way of defusing this situation than rolling up and shooting to kill. Makhia called to be protected. Not to be killed.

Unfortunately for her family. I think the Columbus PD are going to fully back this officer. I don't think much will happen to him based on the footage. And that's as big a tragedy as the loss of life.


Last edited by McLewis on Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by McLewis Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:42 am

@sportsczy wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:And take a look at this stat so that you understand a bit why police in the US tend to be especially aggressive in the past 2 years:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/584748/law-enforcement-officer-fatalities-in-the-us/

Also, take a look at the violent crime rate in the US by year from 1990 to 2019 before you make a judgment on very biased media reporting about the effectiveness of law enforcement in the US:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/

And tell me how you can refute this data please...


Numbers are meaningless without causation and correlation behind them. You cannot tell the complete story of the numbers without that. It's bad faith and intellectually dishonest to just throw out numbers like this.

To understand why the numbers you posted reflect the way they do, you need to go to the root of what started this. I already outlined this in the Racism thread so I'm going to cliff note it here, but it will still be lengthy:

- Post WWII, Congress passed the GI Bill which allowed returning soldiers the means to settle back into civilian life and provide for their families via 4 major areas: Paying for college, gainful employment, getting loans to start businesses, ensuring affordable housing in good neighborhoods.  Sounds great right?

- Well....if you were a white GI, absolutely. If you were a black GI....not even close.

- While GIs returned to areas all over the country, it's important to remember that Black GIs primarily lived in the South in the mid to late 40s.

- Whereas White GIs in the South had no issues getting into colleges and having their tuition paid for, black GIs were barred by these same colleges due to racist admissions officials who both subtly and brazenly defied the provisions in the GI Bill that were meant to prevent discrimination. As such Black GIs were forced to overload the admissions systems of HBCUs in the South, who were so overwhelmed they had to turn away many GI applicants.

- This is the root of the root of the problem because without a college education, Black GIs missed out on the higher paying salaries of their white counterparts. They instead had to take lower paying,  high stress jobs in places like factories and steel mills, barely making enough for their families to get by.

- Without that college education and without that high paying job, they were automatically priced out of the housing market of the "good" (read: predominantly white) neighborhoods, who made sure, via racist redlining practices that black families would never be able to afford houses in these neighborhoods and instead could only afford housing in the less developed parts of cities and downs. Because racist local politicians ensured these areas got the bare minimum of funding, these areas never developed to what they could've been, giving rise to the "ghettos" and "projects" that we know today in American pop culture. This didn't just happen in the South by the way, it happened everywhere too. Redlining was a problem in literally every major American city and affected Black, Hispanic and Asian families. Of the 3, Black families were hit hardest as they were the largest minority group during this time. Redlining still exists today, even if there are laws on the books specific to prevent it, predominantly white affluent neighborhoods have found ways to get around those laws in order to keep those areas exactly how they like it: Free of Black families.

- So that Black GI, working hard for low wages, with no real prospects of getting their family out of the poverty they were slipping in, what do you think they did? Start a business?

- Some Black GIs did try using provisions of the GI Bill to start businesses, like their white counterparts. Unfortunately, the purse strings to those startup loans were held by banks with racist loan officials, who predictably denied Black GIs pivotal loans that would be needed to start up a business.

- At this point, with no education, occupation or entrepreneurial prospects, and with their family quickly falling into poverty due to a lack of decent wage from work, Black GI vets were starting to get desperate. Some began turning to crime to provide for their families. Other GIs slipped into alcohol induced depression and drug addiction, which eventually destroyed their bonds with their families, leading to the first instances of single parent family units.

- By this point, it's the late 60s, early 70s, Nixon is in office and he's been made aware of the "drug problem" in black communities. So what does he do about it? Well he declares a "war on drugs".

- While this should've meant sending in civilian medical and mental health services into these communities to help repair the damage done by drugs to these families, what Nixon did instead is ramp up significant police presence in these neighborhoods. Arresting black men, some GI vets, others the generation that came after which served in Vietnam and returned to absolutely no prospects. These men ended incarcerated on trumped up charges for petty drug crimes, equaling long periods of imprisonment. And those that didn't get arrested could look forward to a beating or even death by police officers if they "resisted" these Nixonian methods of winning this "war on drugs".

- This saw the first true disintegration of the black family unit, creating fatherless children and mothers who now had to become the breadwinners, taking on both the paternal and maternal responsibilities.

- What Nixon started, his successors all the way through Clinton continued, culminating in the 1994 Crime bill, written by the current President when he was in Congress, that effective ramped up the mass incarceration of black males and the hyper vigilant occupation of black communities by police forces to previously unseen levels.

- By this time, the criminal elements, generations removed from the original GIs who turned to crime out of pure desperation to provide for their families, had entirely mutated into a violent element that fought back against being policed, resulting in police fatalities.

- As these fatalities mounted, local, state and fed-level politicians pumped more and more money into PD coffers to militarize police officers, transforming them from the "protect and serve" model of the middle to late 20th century, to the "kill first and ask questions later" model that just executed a 15 year girl today, shot a 13 year old boy last week and kneeled on the neck of a man for 9 minutes until he died a year ago.

- By the way....let me circle back to what happened with the White GIs. They got on just fine....They got the jobs they wanted thanks to those free college degrees. They got the best houses in the best neighborhoods. They got to start businesses in virtually any and every industry thanks to those sweet bank loans. And when they retired? They passed those houses, businesses and other assets/wealth to their kids, and their kids passed it onto their kids...and so on. That is called "generational wealth". White GIs amassed a significant amount of it and it's major reason why a young white couple in their 30s, making 60k a year together can buy a house that costs twice that much on near perfect credit. Because their parents made sure they had everything they needed to be able to do so. Time and generational wealth afford them such privilege and luxury. Black GIs? They never had that chance and thus black couples in their 30s making 60K are much more likely to lose out on those same homes, even if their families prepared them just as well. The lack of generational wealth to provide financial security for a such a huge purchase puts modern black families as a significant disadvantage, forcing them to move into rougher neighborhoods, where they often become victims of crime, in one way or another, increasing the likelihood of run-ins with hyper-militarized police forces who are extremely trigger happy.

My point here isn't to refute your data. It is what it is.

My point is to put your data into the proper context by providing background to tell the story behind it. Cops get killed because they have been militarized against communities that were left behind due to systemically racist policies dating back to the Post WWII, Pre-Civil Rights era. They have dehumanized the communities they are supposed to be protecting. They know nothing about the people they are supposed to be protecting. They know nothing because they don't have to live in these communities. They live in far better neighborhoods, far away from where they have to do their work. It allows for far easier dehumanization and thus colder blood when they kill or beat a black person in those neighborhoods. Had The Black GI been given the same exact treatment as white GIs by this system, those cops that are dead would likely be alive today....as would so many black people that have been killed by police as well over absolutely nothing.

Every level of government was complicit in what was done to black communities. Every level of government needs to be involved to fix it.

The police, particularly in major cities with large black populations, are broken institutions. You say there is only a few bad apples. I say the whole goddamn tree is rotten and dying. What do you do with dying trees with rotten fruit on them? You don't give them more water (read: training) and hope endlessly that they will flourish. That is a waste of water. Instead, you chop the tree down, uproot it, throw it in the fucking wood chipper and you plant a fresh one with new seeds that sprout fresh fruit.

Defunding these PDs does exactly that.
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Post by El Gunner Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:27 am

@McLewis wrote:- As a crowd formed and began lamenting about what happened, the 3 cops on the scene shouted back "Blue Live Matter".
if this is true, that's actually fucked up Laughing
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Post by Myesyats Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:37 am

@McLewis wrote:

Its funny how the account of bystanders is totally different from what actually happened but regardless...

Based on the bodycam Makhia was out of control with the knife in her hand and frankly she was about to stab the woman in pink who was holding a dog in her arms and seemed very calm. Why did she attack? The woman in pink didn't pose any physical threat to her. The police officer could only react to what he was seeing and wasn't left with many choices.

Makhia should have controlled her emotion and let the officer handle it whereas on the cam she clearly looks like the aggressor. The man kicking another girl on the ground also didn't help. Maybe HE should have tried to break up the fight instead of kicking the poor girl? It was a mess all around.

It's hard, for instance, to shoot someone in their moving legs. That's why officers are trained to shoot at center mass, like in the military. Given that no guns were involved, the use of a taser would've been more suitable, I suppose.

But Makhia should have responded to the officer's calls and she didn't.
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Post by Babun Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:04 pm

@McLewis wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:And take a look at this stat so that you understand a bit why police in the US tend to be especially aggressive in the past 2 years:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/584748/law-enforcement-officer-fatalities-in-the-us/

Also, take a look at the violent crime rate in the US by year from 1990 to 2019 before you make a judgment on very biased media reporting about the effectiveness of law enforcement in the US:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/

And tell me how you can refute this data please...


Numbers are meaningless without causation and correlation behind them. You cannot tell the complete story of the numbers without that. It's bad faith and intellectually dishonest to just throw out numbers like this.

To understand why the numbers you posted reflect the way they do, you need to go to the root of what started this. I already outlined this in the Racism thread so I'm going to cliff note it here, but it will still be lengthy:

- Post WWII, Congress passed the GI Bill which allowed returning soldiers the means to settle back into civilian life and provide for their families via 4 major areas: Paying for college, gainful employment, getting loans to start businesses, ensuring affordable housing in good neighborhoods.  Sounds great right?

- Well....if you were a white GI, absolutely. If you were a black GI....not even close.

- While GIs returned to areas all over the country, it's important to remember that Black GIs primarily lived in the South in the mid to late 40s.

- Whereas White GIs in the South had no issues getting into colleges and having their tuition paid for, black GIs were barred by these same colleges due to racist admissions officials who both subtly and brazenly defied the provisions in the GI Bill that were meant to prevent discrimination. As such Black GIs were forced to overload the admissions systems of HBCUs in the South, who were so overwhelmed they had to turn away many GI applicants.

- This is the root of the root of the problem because without a college education, Black GIs missed out on the higher paying salaries of their white counterparts. They instead had to take lower paying,  high stress jobs in places like factories and steel mills, barely making enough for their families to get by.

- Without that college education and without that high paying job, they were automatically priced out of the housing market of the "good" (read: predominantly white) neighborhoods, who made sure, via racist redlining practices that black families would never be able to afford houses in these neighborhoods and instead could only afford housing in the less developed parts of cities and downs. Because racist local politicians ensured these areas got the bare minimum of funding, these areas never developed to what they could've been, giving rise to the "ghettos" and "projects" that we know today in American pop culture. This didn't just happen in the South by the way, it happened everywhere too. Redlining was a problem in literally every major American city and affected Black, Hispanic and Asian families. Of the 3, Black families were hit hardest as they were the largest minority group during this time. Redlining still exists today, even if there are laws on the books specific to prevent it, predominantly white affluent neighborhoods have found ways to get around those laws in order to keep those areas exactly how they like it: Free of Black families.

- So that Black GI, working hard for low wages, with no real prospects of getting their family out of the poverty they were slipping in, what do you think they did? Start a business?

- Some Black GIs did try using provisions of the GI Bill to start businesses, like their white counterparts. Unfortunately, the purse strings to those startup loans were held by banks with racist loan officials, who predictably denied Black GIs pivotal loans that would be needed to start up a business.

- At this point, with no education, occupation or entrepreneurial prospects, and with their family quickly falling into poverty due to a lack of decent wage from work, Black GI vets were starting to get desperate. Some began turning to crime to provide for their families. Other GIs slipped into alcohol induced depression and drug addiction, which eventually destroyed their bonds with their families, leading to the first instances of single parent family units.

- By this point, it's the late 60s, early 70s, Nixon is in office and he's been made aware of the "drug problem" in black communities. So what does he do about it? Well he declares a "war on drugs".

- While this should've meant sending in civilian medical and mental health services into these communities to help repair the damage done by drugs to these families, what Nixon did instead is ramp up significant police presence in these neighborhoods. Arresting black men, some GI vets, others the generation that came after which served in Vietnam and returned to absolutely no prospects. These men ended incarcerated on trumped up charges for petty drug crimes, equaling long periods of imprisonment. And those that didn't get arrested could look forward to a beating or even death by police officers if they "resisted" these Nixonian methods of winning this "war on drugs".

- This saw the first true disintegration of the black family unit, creating fatherless children and mothers who now had to become the breadwinners, taking on both the paternal and maternal responsibilities.

- What Nixon started, his successors all the way through Clinton continued, culminating in the 1994 Crime bill, written by the current President when he was in Congress, that effective ramped up the mass incarceration of black males and the hyper vigilant occupation of black communities by police forces to previously unseen levels.

- By this time, the criminal elements, generations removed from the original GIs who turned to crime out of pure desperation to provide for their families, had entirely mutated into a violent element that fought back against being policed, resulting in police fatalities.

- As these fatalities mounted, local, state and fed-level politicians pumped more and more money into PD coffers to militarize police officers, transforming them from the "protect and serve" model of the middle to late 20th century, to the "kill first and ask questions later" model that just executed a 15 year girl today, shot a 13 year old boy last week and kneeled on the neck of a man for 9 minutes until he died a year ago.

- By the way....let me circle back to what happened with the White GIs. They got on just fine....They got the jobs they wanted thanks to those free college degrees. They got the best houses in the best neighborhoods. They got to start businesses in virtually any and every industry thanks to those sweet bank loans. And when they retired? They passed those houses, businesses and other assets/wealth to their kids, and their kids passed it onto their kids...and so on. That is called "generational wealth". White GIs amassed a significant amount of it and it's major reason why a young white couple in their 30s, making 60k a year together can buy a house that costs twice that much on near perfect credit. Because their parents made sure they had everything they needed to be able to do so. Time and generational wealth afford them such privilege and luxury. Black GIs? They never had that chance and thus black couples in their 30s making 60K are much more likely to lose out on those same homes, even if their families prepared them just as well. The lack of generational wealth to provide financial security for a such a huge purchase puts modern black families as a significant disadvantage, forcing them to move into rougher neighborhoods, where they often become victims of crime, in one way or another, increasing the likelihood of run-ins with hyper-militarized police forces who are extremely trigger happy.

My point here isn't to refute your data. It is what it is.

My point is to put your data into the proper context by providing background to tell the story behind it. Cops get killed because they have been militarized against communities that were left behind due to systemically racist policies dating back to the Post WWII, Pre-Civil Rights era. They have dehumanized the communities they are supposed to be protecting. They know nothing about the people they are supposed to be protecting. They know nothing because they don't have to live in these communities. They live in far better neighborhoods, far away from where they have to do their work. It allows for far easier dehumanization and thus colder blood when they kill or beat a black person in those neighborhoods. Had The Black GI been given the same exact treatment as white GIs by this system, those cops that are dead would likely be alive today....as would so many black people that have been killed by police as well over absolutely nothing.

Every level of government was complicit in what was done to black communities. Every level of government needs to be involved to fix it.

The police, particularly in major cities with large black populations, are broken institutions. You say there is only a few bad apples. I say the whole goddamn tree is rotten and dying. What do you do with dying trees with rotten fruit on them? You don't give them more water (read: training) and hope endlessly that they will flourish. That is a waste of water. Instead, you chop the tree down, uproot it, throw it in the fucking wood chipper and you plant a fresh one with new seeds that sprout fresh fruit.

Defunding these PDs does exactly that.

I saw the bodycam footage, there's no racial discrimination there.
Let me dissect your narrative:
The police was called by her but how the police was supposed to know who she is. As you see in the footage, as soon as the policeman came out there was chaos. Next thing they saw was a girl/woman pinning down another one about to stab (the footage is clear on that one). She isn't just holding a knife, she pinned down the pink girl. From the POV of the police, she might have been the aggressor and the girl in pink the victim. How is he supposed to know without telepathic abilities?
You are asking too much from the police. Imagine, the girl in pink was your daughter and you were the policeman at place, how would you react?
If anything, the dude kicking a kid in the head who was on the ground, not deescalating and then asking the police "WTF?" should be put in jail.

Uncut footage, look at 5:17, the shot fell after. Tell me if you were the police you wouldn't thing the arm is cooked back about to stab.

I mean at some point you have to let the police do their job or do you want black neighbourhoods completely unpatrolled because they'd fear retalliation for anything they'd do whether right or wrong. The result would be massive increase in crimes in those places and the victims would be 99% the innocents.
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Post by Young Kaz Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:52 pm

Surprise Surprise convicted murderer racist cop Derek Chauvin was married to a what?

Spoiler:
 USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread - Page 35 Kellie-chauvin-derek-chauvin

You cant make this up. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Mentally ill Asian women. The consolation prize of white supremacists since 1880.

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Post by sportsczy Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:41 pm

@McLewis. The police could not know which one was Makhia. They just saw a woman attacking another with a knife. They had to react.
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Post by Myesyats Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:45 pm

This one is crazy: https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/mv5yic/riding_by_the_cops_when_they_suddenly_pull_their/
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Post by CBarca Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:11 pm

Bodycam footage places the officer in an impossible place. Either he lets a woman get stabbed and the outcry is about how ineffective the police are and how they're unable to control a situation and do their job, or he shoots her and it's another police shooting of a Black person.

What do police exist for if they stand there and let someone get stabbed?

The only argument I can hear is whether it's appropriate to shoot four times. I'm not an expert on police protocol or the power of guns and whether that's an appropriate action to take. What I do know is that this officer was placed in an impossible situation.

Still, I have an open mind and would be very willing to hear where I'm wrong
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Post by McLewis Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:21 pm

Guys...I understand all of your points here. I just don't agree with them.

Rolling up to a scene and just shooting whoever they think is the threat is not the answer. It will never be the answer for me. Police must be trained to at least TRY to de-escalate these situations before resulting to deadly force. Randomly yelling "get down" to everyone and no one is not it. That's not enough.

Police must be held to a higher standard than the rest of us as the state has given them power over life and death.

The bodycam footage created just as many questions as it does answers. It is not as cut and dry as it looks. As I said, Makhia will be painted as the aggressor by virtually everyone who sees this video. I don't believe she was. She called the police for help. They responded by killing her. She deserved protection as well. I truly believe she was defending herself with that knife and I truly believe she both did not hear the police arrive (they did not announce themselves) and did not hear their command to "get down." To me, she appeared more focused on defending herself. That's how she died, trying to defend herself from 2 people who came there to hurt her. That's my take on this.

I refuse to believe that the only way this scenario ends is with death by police. I will never accept that.

The irony is that Makhia likely would be alive today if she hadn't called police and just took the beating those 2 women were trying to put on her that prompted the call in the first place. She did what she had been conditioned to do in these situations and it cost her life.

When we call the police for their help, we should not expect to die. That is unacceptable. My mind cannot be changed on this.
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Post by McLewis Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:26 pm

And @Babun....if the girl was my daughter, I would've prevented her from calling the police. We would've found a different way to get her out of harm's way.

At this point, calling the police just invites death. I don't trust them.
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Post by McLewis Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:30 pm

And frankly, I will never support state-sanctioned violence against minors. I don't give a fuck what the situation is. These are children being murdered in the streets by adults.

We should protecting these kids, helping them out of the bad situations they find themselves in. Not killing them.
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Post by Warrior Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:33 pm

If i was the officer i shoot her in the legs

Got 0.5 seconds to react here

I understand the hostility towards police but come on

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Post by McLewis Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:55 pm

I refuse to believe police departments (and the great societal systems they're apart of) cannot be reformed to de-escalate situations like this without loss of life. That is a high bar to clear, but not an impossible one.

If we can put people on the moon, rovers on Mars and clone sheep, we can figure out how the fuck to keep black people alive in their own neighborhoods. There is just no will to see it done. We hide behind" the police had to do it". It's a cop out. Pun not intended.
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Post by The Madrid One Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:01 pm

If anything, someone somewhere needs to create technology that can temporarily and verifiably disable people short term without causing death or long term damage and without chance of failure. Guns are presumably used to disable threats, replace them with something better. Long overdue.
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Post by McLewis Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:05 pm



This is why the "she was going to stab someone" defense is bullshit.

My fiance works in an ER, handling people who are high, drunk, suicidal and violent all damn day. She's had knives pulled on her. She is trained on how to disarm and restrain without harming the person.

It can be done. Police just get a pass because its easer to simply kill someone at a distance and then hide behind the "split second" defense than put themselves directly in harms way like teachers and healthcare workers.

Fuck 'em.
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Post by Warrior Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:18 pm

You see the picture above. How is "she was going to stab someone" defense bull shit scratch

Police are called somewhere they don't necessarily know what's going on. There is a wide variety of dangerous situations they come across. Here as they arrive on scene there's a brawl in front of the house and someone got a knife ready to stab. There is not much time for analysis or negociation. It's not a madman who comes at you in a known environment like ER workers or teachers then you just follow a protocol. My point is: don't expect the same standards of de-escalation by police. It's logic if police deal more drastically with violence.

Why in USA police shoots to kill is what i never understand. Should be mandatory to shoot in non lethal body part. Here they can shoot the thighs or use the taser because tbh a physical intervention would be too late. However death is a punishment and police are not the executionner of justice. It's 2 weights 2 measures for black people and rightly so it is being denounced. It's a separate problem and everybody with ounces of humanity is on your side. It's the whole defund police narrative i cannot believe it's the solution. Have local officers in each neighborhood, who grew up there and know the place, does it make more sense ? Would Makhia Bryant be alive if the officer was black is the underlying question. At first i didn't believe so, but as i think of it longer, maybe there are higher chances. It's however a slippery slope to assume all white officers are racist who don't care for black people. In all case it's worth trying a more community approach.
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Post by sportsczy Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:17 pm

In every training school for guns, including private ones, they teach you to shoot to kill because in high-stress situations, your aim isn't going to be good enough to selectively pick a smaller target. The torso is the biggest target and that's where they teach you to aim for.

The premise is that you should only pull out your gun if you're ready to kill because you're aiming for the torso. Otherwise, don't pull out a gun.

This isn't just police training.
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Post by Warrior Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:22 pm

This is mediocrity. Just train officers so they know how to shoot. Retire those who can't.
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Post by CBarca Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:17 pm

There is a massive difference between de-escalating a situation, which is absolutely something we should be striving towards, in all cases, and in every police interaction, and walking into a knife fight where, if you hadn't have done anything, a victim was about to be stabbed in the chest.

I'm open to hearing how this could have been handled better. I agree with and, so of course, am open to hearing about how this situation needed to evolve such that calling the police doesn't result in a shooting like this. That should never be the end result and if it is, we're not going to get past what we're going through. I think McLewis that you know that very badly I would like to agree with you here.

However, I watch the video here and I can't get past this single fact: what does the police officer do? This isn't the bullshit we've seen elsewhere where the answer is to let them fuckin run and find them later! This is a situation where if the cop doesn't do anything, a girl gets stabbed.

Are we as a society OK with accepting that as our way forward? Can we agree on no outrage if he lets the girl in the video get stabbed, so long as he doesn't shoot Ms. Bryant? Is the answer to go for a taser here and in just about every other situation?

That's probably what I think should be the course of action -- as it doesn't result in a sure shooting death. I'm not sure it spares the girl in pink from getting stabbed, but perhaps she survives, and both girls are alive.

I just don't agree with saying that this situation could have been avoided if there was de-escalation. Sometimes you walk into a situation where there is an individual coming at others with a knife, and you can't de-escalate yourself out of that one.

That is NOT me defending the institution of police who are fucking awful at de-escalation, by the way.
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