Re: USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread

[Harmonica]

How much longer Kyle of being judged innocence? The trial is a farce.

[Warrior]

Another guy killed by Minneapolis police 20 years old

Police mistakenly took the gun instead of the taser, would you believe, this should be a long jail sentence if not perpetuity

Police have too big responsibilities to let this pass

[sportsczy]

Another guy killed by Minneapolis police 20 years old

Police mistakenly took the gun instead of the taser, would you believe, this should be a long jail sentence if not perpetuity

Police have too big responsibilities to let this pass

Actually if you see the body cam footage here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwiG57gSYkk

This was involuntary manslaughter... very clearly the female officer made a mistake. She meant to pull out her taser and, in the scuffle, she pulled her handgun.

Involuntary manslaughter starts at 10-16 months of jail and increases if the crime was committed through an act of reckless conduct. Max 15 years.

[Warrior]

It's what i said

At some point police must face accountability. 15 years is better than dying.

[sportsczy]

law is the law...  if you murder someone, you can get life in prison or death penalty.  For this (clearly accidental thus involuntary manslaughter), max 15 years.

You don't conveniently change the law under any circumstance.

I will add that i never understand people resisting arrest or running away from the police.  In 100% of these circumstances, something bad is going to happen. That's anywhere in the world.

[VivaStPauli]

I will add that i never understand people resisting arrest or running away from the police.  In 100% of these circumstances, something bad is going to happen. That's anywhere in the world.

While I half-agree with you, because I said to my friend, when I read about the incident, literally the first thing I said was: "I don't get why people run from the cops, they get shot all the time. Obviously the police has to be held accountable, but don't give them a reason" - so yeah.

But no it's not 'anywhere in the world', sports - the US is the only developed nation where a cop would reach for his gun to stop a suspect running away. This literally would never happen here. If you run, maybe you get away, maybe you don't. You mostly don't, because cops here are lean, mean sprinters, and often have a dog with them when they serve warrants, and I've never seen someone outrun a police dog, but I have seen them try, and it is hilarious.


But nobody in the civilized world would it be okay for the police to stop a suspect with potentially lethal force just because they run away. I get and agree with your finer point, but this is not 'anywhere in the world', this is unique to the trigger happy US and most democratic countries fare just fine in their crime fighting without randomly shooting people to slow them down. Here, cops just run. Or drive. They don't shoot.

[VivaStPauli]

PS: I know the cop was reaching for a taser, but that's also fucking retarded, and overkill to stop an unarmed person fleeing the scene. Tasers IMHO have their niche in stopping unarmed people attacking someone, sure, but stop shooting everything FFS.
But my comment was more geared towards sports saying this was basically unavoidable. It's not. You won't see a London bobby pull on someone for running away.

[McLewis]

law is the law...  if you murder someone, you can get life in prison or death penalty.  For this (clearly accidental thus involuntary manslaughter), max 15 years.

You don't conveniently change the law under any circumstance.

I will add that i never understand people resisting arrest or running away from the police.  In 100% of these circumstances, something bad is going to happen. That's anywhere in the world.

Why was he pulled over in the first place? Expired license plates. This should not warrant a police stop imo. That's a civil infraction. Not a criminal one.

He died over a civil infraction. That is the real root of the issue for me. Everything else that happened afterwards is a result of it.

[McLewis]

Also, an important distinction to make is that this did not occur in Minneapolis. It occurred in Brooklyn Center, a suburb of that city. Minneapolis' PD was defunded and rebuilt following George Floyd's murder. That did not occur in its suburbs.

[Warrior]

law is the law...  if you murder someone, you can get life in prison or death penalty.  For this (clearly accidental thus involuntary manslaughter), max 15 years.

You don't conveniently change the law under any circumstance.

I will add that i never understand people resisting arrest or running away from the police.  In 100% of these circumstances, something bad is going to happen. That's anywhere in the world.

Why was he pulled over in the first place? Expired license plates. This should not warrant a police stop imo. That's a civil infraction. Not a criminal one.

He died over a civil infraction. That is the real root of the issue for me. Everything else that happened afterwards is a result of it.

Really in USA they let you go ??

Where i live if you get caught. You either pay them right now or they call towing + taxi and seize for a month. Was ok to stop him imo, the tragedy is what followed.

[The Franchise]

Same old story huh? Find some minor way to blame the victim so it doesnt seem as insanely needless as this was.

The inability of a trained, experienced officer to figure out the difference between a gun and taser aside, why is a taser being brought out to deal with this?

Absolutely pathetic. What a broken system.

@sportsczy wrote:
I will add that i never understand people resisting arrest or running away from the police.  In 100% of these circumstances, something bad is going to happen. That's anywhere in the world.

What absolute rubbish

First hand I am telling you this is horseshit.

[Warrior]

Also that's where i get the info. https://www.lapresse.ca/international/etats-unis/2021-04-12/jeune-tue-pres-de-minneapolis/la-policiere-aurait-confondu-son-arme-avec-son-taser.php it is like 15km away from Minneapolis. Not sure why the distinction is so important as it happens all over country or so it seems. Mistake a gun for a taser is criminal negligence causing death, i repeat you cannot allow such mistakes in police. Nobody forces you to be in police and supposedly protecting the life of citizens. It's a choice with huge responsibilities, here the policewoman failed and should be used as example. Max sentence is fair here.

[Warrior]

@sportsczy wrote:
I will add that i never understand people resisting arrest or running away from the police.  In 100% of these circumstances, something bad is going to happen. That's anywhere in the world.

What absolute rubbish

First hand I am telling you this is horseshit.

Well it's hard to argue with Sports here if the guy did not flee he'd not be dead, but in custody awating his gun possession trial which he skipped at first (that's why he tried fleeing away)

In USA police are trigger happy, it is well known by now black people risk their lives every intervention. It was smarter to remain calm. Changes nothing to who gets the ultimate blame it is incompetent police.

[The Franchise]

Sports is claim is that running or resisting results in something bad happening, ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE.

That is without doubt false.

[Warrior]

Sports will exaggerate sometimes. But it's true everywhere in the world you'd get in trouble for resisting arrest. Difference is, of course, it's mostly in USA and in totalitarist dictatures where police is the executionner of justice. That much is very wack i agree.

[The Franchise]

Trouble and "something bad always happening" are two very different things.

If you say, running from the cops can lead to more trouble. Nobody disagrees. It irrelevant in this case, but nobody disagrees.

In my youth, running from the police happened many times (London) and at no point was my life in danger ffs. Its a foot race with a head start. Usually resulting in escape. Sure, some cases are different with different circumstances...but almost nobody is getting shot/killed/maimed.

Why? Well police dont have guns unless called upon as needed. And why would a gun be needed in this circumstance?

Have things changed? Sure, even here. But you cant sell me that running results in these kinds of bad things frequently, let alone always.

I dont want to be condoning or endorsing running from cops, that is not my point. But making these kinds of false statements doesnt move anything forward and really I sense are made mostly to shift the blame to the victim for some strange reason.

[McLewis]

law is the law...  if you murder someone, you can get life in prison or death penalty.  For this (clearly accidental thus involuntary manslaughter), max 15 years.

You don't conveniently change the law under any circumstance.

I will add that i never understand people resisting arrest or running away from the police.  In 100% of these circumstances, something bad is going to happen.  That's anywhere in the world.

Why was he pulled over in the first place? Expired license plates. This should not warrant a police stop imo. That's a civil infraction. Not a criminal one.

He died over a civil infraction. That is the real root of the issue for me. Everything else that happened afterwards is a result of it.

Really in USA they let you go ??

Where i live if you get caught. You either pay them right now or they call towing + taxi and seize for a month. Was ok to stop him imo, the tragedy is what followed.

I think Daunte Wright would've much preferred having his car towed than getting shot dead. My point is that the US justice system, as always, creates environments like this one, where death is often the first and only answer. It's a system that awards escalation rather than de-escalation.

[Warrior]

I totally agree

The problem is police being trigger happy. That's why i say maximum sentence for the policewoman is a good start. If you can't reform the whole USA system with a magic spell, make police accountable is at least a step in right direction. Eventually they will think twice before shooting.

[M99]

This is so sad. Same shit happened with Oscar Grant. Idiot cop shot him with a gun instead of a taser.

[sportsczy]

Trouble and "something bad always happening" are two very different things.

If you say, running from the cops can lead to more trouble. Nobody disagrees. It irrelevant in this case, but nobody disagrees.

In my youth, running from the police happened many times (London) and at no point was my life in danger ffs. Its a foot race with a head start. Usually resulting in escape. Sure, some cases are different with different circumstances...but almost nobody is getting shot/killed/maimed.

Why? Well police dont have guns unless called upon as needed. And why would a gun be needed in this circumstance?

Have things changed? Sure, even here. But you cant sell me that running results in these kinds of bad things frequently, let alone always.

I dont want to be condoning or endorsing running from cops, that is not my point. But making these kinds of false statements doesnt move anything forward and really I sense are made mostly to shift the blame to the victim for some strange reason.

The difference in Europe (I grew up in France) was that the police didn't have to worry about common criminals having guns... knives, sure.  But not guns.  If guns are prevalent in society, then the police need guns too.  You have to get rid of one so that you don't need it for the other.

Gun control is the problem here... not only the police.  And in this case, it was an accident that happened because the person resisted and tried to run away.  The action caused a reaction and a mistake was made. The fact that the police are required to have guns in the US due to circumstance makes lethal mistakes far more likely.

[sportsczy]

Also, i drove with an expired license once in my life in Los Angeles because I was gone for several months and couldn't take care of it before...  I got pulled over within 2 days of coming back as I needed to use the car and hadn't had a chance to go to the DMBV  Received a rather big ticket too.

It's just going to happen.   It's a perfectly legitimate reason to pull someone over.  By law, it's also probable cause for the police to search you and the car.  Just how it is. Did they ask him to get out his car because he was black? Separate issue altogether. But nothing about what the police did here was outside of what they are allowed to do.

It's like a Middle Eastern person going to the airport and trying to fly with an expired driver's license. You can pretty much guarantee that you will be denied a flight AND get taken to the back to get checked out. As a person of Middle Eastern descent, I understand that and totally understand... truth be told, we're the most likely group and should be targeted. It's racist; but not unreasonable if that makes sense.

[Doc]

But nobody in the civilized world would it be okay for the police to stop a suspect with potentially lethal force just because they run away. I get and agree with your finer point, but this is not 'anywhere in the world', this is unique to the trigger happy US and most democratic countries fare just fine in their crime fighting without randomly shooting people to slow them down. Here, cops just run. Or drive. They don't shoot.

In the "uncivilized" world of the Caribbean, I've known many a boy who ran from the Police without getting their back caressed with bullets. Unless of course, you were known to them in a bad way then chances are, you may or may not make it.

[sportsczy]

To be clear... nobody should be shot. This case was an accident. BUT the accident occurred because all police officers are forced to carry guns. If ONLY a specific type of police officer carried lethal weapons because guns weren't so prevalent, this type of mistake couldn't happen.

That's my point.

My second point is that you can 99% expect to get pulled over and asked rather pointed questions if you drive a car with an expired license. You may also get your car confiscated and towed until you pay the fine and the registration fees (depends on the state).

This was just extremely unfortunate. Involuntary manslaughter all the way.

[Warrior]

From now on put red hockey tape around the taser to avoid such confusion... 26 years of experience

I am completely foreign to the situation and very shocked. Can't imagine how his family feels.

[sportsczy]

From now on put red hockey tape around the taser to avoid such confusion... 26 years of experience

I am completely foreign to the situation and very shocked. Can't imagine how his family feels.

From what I've read, the police lady had never had to use her weapon in her career (taser or otherwise).  Most police don't ever fire their weapon in their careers.  Only 27% in 2017 and that includes the crazy parts (see here:  https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/08/a-closer-look-at-police-officers-who-have-fired-their-weapon-on-duty/).

She made a very unfortunate mistake for everyone and will pay the price.

[Babun]

With everything said my two cents: the US justice system is too harsh towards minor delicts. Instead of social labour or other incentives, people go straight to prison for petty crimes. The motivation to run away is there even though it's stupid.

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