USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread

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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:31 pm

Myesyats wrote:Europe was war torn for the most part and those Italians, Irishmen were also refugees in large numbers. Most europeans migrated to the US because of two world wars. Of course I'm not here to judge who had it worse, but millions of europeans were also refugees.


The ancestors of todays African-Americans were not refugees, but the exact opposite.

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Post by CBarca Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:36 pm

Correct Harmonica, the police and racism have nothing to do with each other.
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Post by Harmonica Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:40 pm

Young Kaz wrote:
Nishankly wrote:
Art Morte wrote:

No they don't. Police in Finland, for example, are perfectly nice and reasonable.


On another note, these protests and riots make me feel pretty happy about living in a mostly homogeneous society. Multicultural or multiracial societies don't seem to function very well anywhere.
.

Singapore? The most peaceful and low crime rate in one of most diverse countries in the world, on top of their national demographics, they have 30% foreign labour force not included in ethnic breakup.  


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Finnish_inventions

"Look upon my white ethnostate ye coloreds and despair"

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
What? Singapore doesn't even have inventions page on wiki. I'm fairly sure Finland ranks very high inventions related to population, you do know there's only 5M of us? We often win corruption, happiness, education and the best place to live rankings.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:43 pm

Myesyats wrote:
M99 wrote:I grew up in a homogenous country too and like EG I recognize the narrow mindedness and intolerance in a society like that. Add a vocal minority of Islamic fundamentalism and astounding income disparity made it even worse.

Also reading some posts in this thread, I have to say this out loud. White fragility, defensiveness and apologists is really what holds racism in place. And no, don't have a fit and insult me for calling anyone racist, I'm not doing that, but I am calling out behavior which makes racism easier to exist in the world.

Us vs them right now is really not whites versus blacks. It really boils down to racists vs anti-racists. Having a middle ground means you equate both sides with each other and are perfectly fine with racism existing in the system.

So you either feel shame for being white or else you're racist? Unbelievable stance


Being anti-racism has nothing whatsoever to do with feeling shame for being white

Why should I should feel shame for being white?

We need to snap out of it. You're not being accused of anything, that's what's so annoying of people reflexively being offended by antiracism

The only thing we have to own is our goddamn privilege, and how hard can that be?
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Post by El Gunner Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:45 pm

Harmonica wrote:Dafuq is this racism talk about? This has nothing to do with it, it's about US being a police state, and the force having too much power, and getting away with crimes themselves. If the officer was arrested and prosecuted on the spot, non of this would've happened.

Watch this streamer getting shot a year ago, and there was no action taken against the security guard. That's in a nutshell what is wrong on US justice system nowadays, and how the police is being protected.

Your point stands true, but it doesn't necessarily mean racism isn't involved.
White officers have historically harassed minority people way more than their own skin colour. So race is definitely a part of it.
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Post by El Gunner Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:50 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Myesyats wrote:
M99 wrote:I grew up in a homogenous country too and like EG I recognize the narrow mindedness and intolerance in a society like that. Add a vocal minority of Islamic fundamentalism and astounding income disparity made it even worse.

Also reading some posts in this thread, I have to say this out loud. White fragility, defensiveness and apologists is really what holds racism in place. And no, don't have a fit and insult me for calling anyone racist, I'm not doing that, but I am calling out behavior which makes racism easier to exist in the world.

Us vs them right now is really not whites versus blacks. It really boils down to racists vs anti-racists. Having a middle ground means you equate both sides with each other and are perfectly fine with racism existing in the system.

So you either feel shame for being white or else you're racist? Unbelievable stance


Being anti-racism has nothing whatsoever to do with feeling shame for being white

Why should I should feel shame for being white?

We need to snap out of it. You're not being accused of anything, that's what's so annoying of people reflexively being offended by antiracism

The only thing we have to own is our goddamn privilege, and how hard can that be?
This.
But there still seems to be whites out there that believe they are the superior race and the rest of the world wants to exterminate them/has an agenda against them.
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Post by Harmonica Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:56 pm

El Gunner wrote:
Harmonica wrote:Dafuq is this racism talk about? This has nothing to do with it, it's about US being a police state, and the force having too much power, and getting away with crimes themselves. If the officer was arrested and prosecuted on the spot, non of this would've happened.

Watch this streamer getting shot a year ago, and there was no action taken against the security guard. That's in a nutshell what is wrong on US justice system nowadays, and how the police is being protected.

Your point stands true, but it doesn't necessarily mean racism isn't involved.
White officers have historically harassed minority people way more than their own skin colour. So race is definitely a part of it.
Yeah should've worded it differently. In its core it's about inequality on the face of law, police in US currently is above the law in relation to the normal citizen. And that is a definitive problem, that easily escalates on racism.
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Post by Zagadka Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:14 pm

Events of the last week has got people I know in Texas to buy more guns and ammo.

Very normally liberal and anti-gun folks.

lol

Violence always breeds violence. It's a never ending circle.

btw, if I was an alien coming from space and my first impression of the world was reading this thread....I wouldn't know what America is:

Option 1:
The greatest country on earth ever with a vibrant diversity of people working together that has led to the most prosperous nation on earth.

Option 2:
A racist state where one group rules everyone else, there is no upward social mobility, with despicable health care access for its citizens and an astonishing wealth gap between the society.

Sorry but one and two can't be true at the same time. So what is America? I'm not saying it's one of those 2 extremes, but hell for sure it can't be both AT THE SAME TIME.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:24 pm

As long as those aliens don't actually come to open the box and look inside, two opposing states 1 and 2 can very well be true at the same time

that's just basic modern physics
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Post by Harmonica Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:36 pm

Police in US has this thing called "qualified immunity", that protects them. If I've understood it correctly it protects them doing one major mistake, or in other words a crime, and it will not affect their lives. They'll just lose their "qualified immunity" and only after the second time it affects their lives or they descent on the same level as a normal citizen. Somebody from US can correct me if I'm wrong. But that is just about the most stupid thing ever, and makes people inequal on the face on the law. If normal citizen makes an unlawful mistake, it's a crime.
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Post by Myesyats Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:52 pm

S wrote:Besides no brown, black or Asian guy is going to immigrate to countries like Finland or Poland for a better life so you can be happy about your homogenity I guess.

I'm completely fine with it. I love the homogenity of my country as much as I love the multiculturalism of the US.

I don't need to take one down to establish superiority over the other like y'all are trying to do. And just because I also value homogenity does not mean that I'm racist or that I'd ever allow racism or that I'm fighting those who are also opposed to racist ideologies.

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Post by CBarca Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:54 pm

Harmonica wrote:Police in US has this thing called "qualified immunity", that protects them. If I've understood it correctly it protects them doing one major mistake, or in other words a crime, and it will not affect their lives. They'll just lose their "qualified immunity" and only after the second time it affects their lives or they descent on the same level as a normal citizen. Somebody from US can correct me if I'm wrong. But that is just about the most stupid thing ever, and makes people inequal on the face on the law. If normal citizen makes an unlawful mistake, it's a crime.


This is not correct. Here is a good summation of Qualified Immunity:

QI wrote:"The Supreme Court invented qualified immunity in 1967, describing it as a modest exception for public officials who had acted in “good faith” and believed that their conduct was authorized by law. Fifteen years later, in Harlow v. Fitzgerald, the Court drastically expanded the defense. The protection afforded to public officials would no longer turn on whether the official acted in “good faith.” Instead, even officials who violate peoples’ rights maliciously will be immune unless the victim can show that his or her right was “clearly established.” Since the Harlow decision, the Court has made it exceedingly difficult for victims to satisfy this standard. To show that the law is “clearly established,” the Court has said, a victim must point to a previously decided case that involves the same “specific context” and “particular conduct.” Unless the victim can point to a judicial decision that happened to involve the same context and conduct, the officer will be shielded from liability."

Source is just from a "what is qualified immunity" webpage: https://theappeal.org/qualified-immunity-explained/

Also, Sepp, try not to generalize the entire society of the United States (over 300 million people) into two scenarios, a sentence each. The reason why you think they can't exist at the same time is because you built it that way.
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Post by Harmonica Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:58 pm

CBarca wrote:
Harmonica wrote:Police in US has this thing called "qualified immunity", that protects them. If I've understood it correctly it protects them doing one major mistake, or in other words a crime, and it will not affect their lives. They'll just lose their "qualified immunity" and only after the second time it affects their lives or they descent on the same level as a normal citizen. Somebody from US can correct me if I'm wrong. But that is just about the most stupid thing ever, and makes people inequal on the face on the law. If normal citizen makes an unlawful mistake, it's a crime.


This is not correct. Here is a good summation of Qualified Immunity:

QI wrote:"The Supreme Court invented qualified immunity in 1967, describing it as a modest exception for public officials who had acted in “good faith” and believed that their conduct was authorized by law. Fifteen years later, in Harlow v. Fitzgerald, the Court drastically expanded the defense. The protection afforded to public officials would no longer turn on whether the official acted in “good faith.” Instead, even officials who violate peoples’ rights maliciously will be immune unless the victim can show that his or her right was “clearly established.” Since the Harlow decision, the Court has made it exceedingly difficult for victims to satisfy this standard. To show that the law is “clearly established,” the Court has said, a victim must point to a previously decided case that involves the same “specific context” and “particular conduct.” Unless the victim can point to a judicial decision that happened to involve the same context and conduct, the officer will be shielded from liability."

Source is just from a "what is qualified immunity" webpage: https://theappeal.org/qualified-immunity-explained/
But doesn't that mean just what I said? If they don't have previous example of the "crime", they can commit it once?
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Post by Thimmy Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:42 pm

CBarca wrote:I mean, I feel like either reopen the racism thread since Unique is now gone or I feel like it's inevitable we're going to talk about race and integration here.


I’ve never seen race being brought up as frequently as it is on here, anywhere else. So, yes, I think it’s inevitable that it will always be a topic on this forum. Even if it’s not a topic, Hans will remind you that every fiber of his body is anti-racist Laughing
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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:36 pm

Thimmy wrote:
CBarca wrote:I mean, I feel like either reopen the racism thread since Unique is now gone or I feel like it's inevitable we're going to talk about race and integration here.


I’ve never seen race being brought up as frequently as it is on here, anywhere else. So, yes, I think it’s inevitable that it will always be a topic on this forum. Even if it’s not a topic, Hans will remind you that every fiber of his body is anti-racist  Laughing


Same can't be said about your fibers quite apparently

or what's the point your trying to make
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Post by LeVersacci Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:44 pm

Civil war guaranteed if Chauvin is found not guilty.

Shit will make the LA riots in 92 look like a family day in Disney land.
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Post by Young Kaz Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:08 am

I cant believe he just choked out the big homie like that. Mad Mad Mad Mad




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Post by El Gunner Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:33 am

have we talked about this yet? another black man shot by the piggies

https://theintercept.com/2020/06/01/louisville-police-left-the-body-of-david-mcatee-on-the-street-for-12-hours/
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Post by McLewis Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:27 am

El Gunner wrote:have we talked about this yet? another black man shot by the piggies

https://theintercept.com/2020/06/01/louisville-police-left-the-body-of-david-mcatee-on-the-street-for-12-hours/


Particularly tragic because he was caught in the crossfire. It's like those cops didn't even try to avoid killing him. They just shot in the general direction of where they thought the shots came from.

This has not been a good year for Louisville police officers. And if the cops who killed Breonna Taylor are not charged and convicted, it will probably get much worse.
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Post by Warrior Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:39 am

Thimmy wrote:
CBarca wrote:I mean, I feel like either reopen the racism thread since Unique is now gone or I feel like it's inevitable we're going to talk about race and integration here.


I’ve never seen race being brought up as frequently as it is on here, anywhere else. So, yes, I think it’s inevitable that it will always be a topic on this forum. Even if it’s not a topic, Hans will remind you that every fiber of his body is anti-racist Laughing



Let's not act like Unique was the only one to have been toxic in that thread

Even if i was from Tchernobyl i would not have enough fingers to count the amount of threads deviated into a racism discussion in last 6 months

Nobody's stance have changed in the slightest. It's always the same discussion but the context change Laughing
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Post by McLewis Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:44 am



Good. He was ineffective and does not have control over his department.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:51 am

So here's one consequence of all this... I am now against gun control and I will vote for whoever stops the anarchy.  End of.

I laughed before... but it's now clearly evident that the police/government cannot protect me and my family from rioting/looting/mob criminality.  They just can't or won't do it.  So I'm going to keep my handgun (I have one) and I am going to buy something bigger just in case.

If any demonstrator gets near me or threatens me in any way... they're getting shot.  In the torso or head.  Kill shot.  Let's hope it doesn't happen.  Thankfully, I can protect myself if need be.

This is my last post on this forum. Good luck to all of you.
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Post by McLewis Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:55 am

From what Trump said in the Rose Garden, you have more to fear from our military than you ever would from protesters, rioters and looters. And that's a fight you will not win.
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Post by El Gunner Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:04 am

sportsczy wrote:So here's one consequence of all this... I am now against gun control and I will vote for whoever stops the anarchy.  End of.

I laughed before... but it's now clearly evident that the police/government cannot protect me and my family from rioting/looting/mob criminality.  They just can't or won't do it.  So I'm going to keep my handgun (I have one) and I am going to buy something bigger just in case.

If any demonstrator gets near me or threatens me in any way... they're getting shot.  In the torso or head.  Kill shot.  Let's hope it doesn't happen.  Thankfully, I can protect myself if need be.

This is my last post on this forum. Good luck to all of you.

well then jail awaits you.
goodbye soulless capitalist, you won't be missed
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:05 am

sportsczy wrote:So here's one consequence of all this... I am now against gun control and I will vote for whoever stops the anarchy.  End of.

I laughed before... but it's now clearly evident that the police/government cannot protect me and my family from rioting/looting/mob criminality.  They just can't or won't do it.  So I'm going to keep my handgun (I have one) and I am going to buy something bigger just in case.

If any demonstrator gets near me or threatens me in any way... they're getting shot.  In the torso or head.  Kill shot.  Let's hope it doesn't happen.  Thankfully, I can protect myself if need be.

This is my last post on this forum. Good luck to all of you.


Good luck man, stay safe.
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