BREAKING: Manchester City banned from Champions League for two seasons

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Post by Jay29 on Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:42 am

As far as financial doping is concerned, the damage has been done. This ruling isn't the end of City as a force. Far from it, actually.

All this might do is force City to limit their losses, which may require sales. However, City can sell players such as Douglas Luiz, somebody who has never played for them but spent time in the City "network", for £15m to Aston Villa. A handful of these sales can cover the cost of a first team signing.

Currently, City also have a strong financial base thanks to gate receipts (5th highest average attendance in the PL), regularly appearing in the Champions League, and the PL/CL TV money. If City wanted to, they could probably negotiate "normal"commercial deals as well, and be on par with other top clubs. So even if they start limiting their losses, their financial power is still considerable.

This is unlikely to damage their recruiting power as well, as City will still compete for the PL and still pay very well.

Ultimately, they've gotten the boost that was needed to get them at this level. Now, the numerous self-perpetuating systems in place at the top level will keep them there.

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Post by Firenze on Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:46 am

@Myesyats wrote:

Shouldnt ffp look at the other team from Manchester too? Their net spend is in close proximity to City's and they havent won jack shit for years.

Liverpool earned their current position the hard way, without sheikhs and over many years so their books are balanced. Admirable nowadays

uhh, are you dense? Mancherster City are fucking nobodies internationally and United are the biggest club in the world. We have fucking noodle deals airing in the mountains of Tibet. City's revenue is nothing like ours. Which is why they were cookin' the books.
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Post by BusterLfc on Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:58 am

@Jay29 wrote:As far as financial doping is concerned, the damage has been done. This ruling isn't the end of City as a force. Far from it, actually.

All this might do is force City to limit their losses, which may require sales. However, City can sell players such as Douglas Luiz, somebody who has never played for them but spent time in the City "network", for £15m to Aston Villa. A handful of these sales can cover the cost of a first team signing.

Currently, City also have a strong financial base thanks to gate receipts (5th highest average attendance in the PL), regularly appearing in the Champions League, and the PL/CL TV money. If City wanted to, they could probably negotiate "normal"commercial deals as well, and be on par with other top clubs. So even if they start limiting their losses, their financial power is still considerable.

This is unlikely to damage their recruiting power as well, as City will still compete for the PL and still pay very well.

Ultimately, they've gotten the boost that was needed to get them at this level. Now, the numerous self-perpetuating systems in place at the top level will keep them there.

Which established top player would play in a team that doesn't play in the CL for 2 years? And which top coach would sign for that team after Guardiola leaves? I don't think many would.
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Post by Jay29 on Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:13 pm

Look at this way: a lot of City's best players currently weren't established top-guys and came from clubs outside of the so-called elite. De Bruyne came from Wolfsburg, Bernardo came from Monaco, Sane from Schalke, Sterling from Liverpool when they weren't competing at the top, Laporte from Athletic, Ederson from Benfica, Mahrez from Leicester, and so on. As a player in that position, you know you're going to be well-paid, competing for trophies and be in the CL when the ban is over.

It's the same for managers. They'll see a group of very good players, with ample funds to further strengthen despite the ban. And they, too, will be well-paid. It's still a very attractive job.

I might be underselling the severity of the sanction a bit, but any idea that there'll be an exodus of players, and that no good players or manager will want to play for them, is fanciful.

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Post by BusterLfc on Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:23 pm

@Jay29 wrote:Look at this way: a lot of City's best players currently weren't established top-guys and came from clubs outside of the so-called elite. De Bruyne came from Wolfsburg, Bernardo came from Monaco, Sane from Schalke, Sterling from Liverpool when they weren't competing at the top, Laporte from Athletic, Ederson from Benfica, Mahrez from Leicester, and so on. As a player in that position, you know you're going to be well-paid, competing for trophies and be in the CL when the ban is over.

It's the same for managers. They'll see a group of very good players, with ample funds to further strengthen despite the ban. And they, too, will be well-paid. It's still a very attractive job.

I might be underselling the severity of the sanction a bit, but any idea that there'll be an exodus of players, and that no good players or manager will want to play for them, is fanciful.

Yeah but most of them were bound to be top players and cost a lot anyway. I think some of those players would think twice about signing for City if they had a 2 year CL ban back then and another ambitious CL club was in for them. But City is shit in CL anyways and it's like they don't even play in it. Players already know they won't win the CL when they join them so you're probably right.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:25 pm

@McLewis wrote:What would even be City's argument on appeals or in court defending their actions?
ffp on its own is highly questionable and anti competitive. I could see it being against EU competition laws.

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Post by BusterLfc on Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:36 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@McLewis wrote:What would even be City's argument on appeals or in court defending their actions?
ffp on its own is highly questionable and anti competitive. I could see it being against EU competition laws.

Then any other club could appeal for that and ffp would be useless
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Post by Harmonica on Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:42 pm

PL is just a clusterfuck of corruption, one horse league with horrible teams, and even worse weather.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:36 pm

@BusterLfc wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@McLewis wrote:What would even be City's argument on appeals or in court defending their actions?
ffp on its own is highly questionable and anti competitive. I could see it being against EU competition laws.

Then any other club could appeal for that and ffp would be useless
well yes, that' kind of what happens. pretty much every time FFP is used, the clubs sue and usually win. AC Milan, PSG, Galatasaray, etc have all done it

https://www.ft.com/content/790e0b66-4bf3-11e9-8b7f-d49067e0f50d

Also interesting in that article is that what City is being accused of has been known for at least a year and probably more Laughing

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Post by rincon on Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:43 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@BusterLfc wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote: ffp on its own is highly questionable and anti competitive. I could see it being against EU competition laws.

Then any other club could appeal for that and ffp would be useless
well yes, that' kind of what happens. pretty much every time FFP is used, the clubs sue and usually win. AC Milan, PSG, Galatasaray, etc have all done it

https://www.ft.com/content/790e0b66-4bf3-11e9-8b7f-d49067e0f50d

Also interesting in that article is that what City is being accused of has been known for at least a year and probably more Laughing

Milan didnt win in any way vs UEFA on ffp. They got bailed out by Elliot and still had a full on european competition ban. It's why they weren't in this year's EL and Torino took their place
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Post by Myesyats on Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:46 pm

@Firenze wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:

Shouldnt ffp look at the other team from Manchester too? Their net spend is in close proximity to City's and they havent won jack shit for years.

Liverpool earned their current position the hard way, without sheikhs and over many years so their books are balanced. Admirable nowadays

uhh, are you dense? Mancherster City are fucking nobodies internationally and United are the biggest club in the world. We have fucking noodle deals airing in the mountains of Tibet. City's revenue is nothing like ours. Which is why they were cookin' the books.

Doesnt matter you pleb, the rules state clearly that the difference between outgoing and incoming transfers cannot exceed €100 million within a season no matter how much money you have. But you generate a lot from player sales so you're indeed in a comfortable position in line with FFP.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:48 pm

@rincon wrote:Milan didnt win in any way vs UEFA on ffp. They got bailed out by Elliot and still had a full on european competition ban. It's why they weren't in this year's EL and Torino took their place


From article:

Uefa said the PSG decision “does not put in doubt the objectives” of FFP. But the setback comes after Galatasaray, of Turkey, and AC Milan also lodged successful appeals against Uefa in FFP-related legal cases over the past year

Last year, AC Milan successfully overturned a season-long ban from European competition after CAS accepted the club’s argument the punishment was disproportionate.

Uefa subsequently said it would sanction the club by withholding €12m it should have gained from playing in the Europa League this season, and the club could still face a European ban should it fail to break even by 2021. AC Milan has appealed this decision to CAS.

looks like they had a string of legal wins before ultimately losing that CAS appeal

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Post by rincon on Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:55 pm

They got the "win" because Elliot bailed them out when they took over from the previous ownership and invested a ton of money. Then they anyway ended up losing when CAS decided to still ban them
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Post by JespSwe on Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:23 pm

@rincon wrote:They got the "win" because Elliot bailed them out when they took over from the previous ownership and invested a ton of money. Then they anyway ended up losing when CAS decided to still ban them


well that...
and couldnt spend anyway if elliot wanted to... UEFA was scrutinizing and still are

thats why elliot atm wants to sell before we could buy within the allowances ; plus we had some mass exodus last year and jan saving us in wage bill. some bad investments didn't do us favor in terms of recouping some money from transfer fees as we were always selling at loss, we are really even now at tightrope how much we can spend and we had seriously bad fiscal year for 2018/2019 due to free crazy spending by previous ownership + wage bill


and we have already been reprimanded by UEFA to balance book by 2021 or face another ban should we qualify for 2022, 2023 CL.

so milan didnt get away whatsoever even with CAS ruling, it allowed us to compete but without any financial gains ... in fact UEFA imposed us 12 million fine. we voluntarily also agreed on ban on european competition.

one of the ways we are trying to avoid this scenario atm is to invest on youth and with salary caps + spending money on infrastructure which doesnt go against FFP to build stadium, and sporting wise to get in european competition
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Post by BarcaLearning on Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:55 pm

Man C is too big and rich to have this huge ban imposed on them I would have thought? Pretty sure it will be at least reduced significantly via appeal Razz Otherwise it would be one of the stronger punishment ever, which really doesnt make sense, since we all know money rules all lol.
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Post by JespSwe on Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:05 pm

@BarcaLearning wrote:Man C is too big and rich to have this huge ban imposed on them I would have thought? Pretty sure it will be at least reduced significantly via appeal Razz Otherwise it would be one of the stronger punishment ever, which really doesnt make sense, since we all know money rules all lol.


lol true ... think they will get away...
this whole FFP thing is not watertight written in first place... hence the best of lawyers find the loopholes to interpret their ways...

plus if city wanted to they can still adhere UEFA way and they are still in better position to do so, because in EPL they get lot of renevues compared to other leagues and they can sell some stars and non starters with capital gain from transfer fees they make + wage bill savings and new investment in stadium which doesnt fall under FFP ruling

stopping spending and only spending what they make legit on club revenues will lower them compared to manutd and other EPL big clubs (who has much better global brand appeals and make better revenues) so the powershifts to other clubs so i dont think city wants to be lowered into same cast as other EPL teams (ie Arsenal, liverpool ,etc who follows by FFP ) XD
money is no object to them and they want to be free spenders
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Post by BusterLfc on Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:44 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@BusterLfc wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote: ffp on its own is highly questionable and anti competitive. I could see it being against EU competition laws.

Then any other club could appeal for that and ffp would be useless
well yes, that' kind of what happens. pretty much every time FFP is used, the clubs sue and usually win. AC Milan, PSG, Galatasaray, etc have all done it

https://www.ft.com/content/790e0b66-4bf3-11e9-8b7f-d49067e0f50d

Also interesting in that article is that what City is being accused of has been known for at least a year and probably more Laughing

They aren't getting away in serious breach of rules. Maybe they can find loopholes for light offences
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Post by Glory on Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:23 pm

No, they aint getting away from this. In fact I for one think FA gonna relegate them into league 2 and they will be playing their local derby against Salford City like its been said here https://www.givemesport.com/1547122-man-city-could-be-forced-to-play-in-league-two-after-champions-league-ban  Thumbs up

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Post by sportsczy on Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:09 pm

The issue with City is that they falsified their financial statements... as in literally lied about things.  That's what caused this.  

It's one thing to provide the information and put your spin on it... it's quite another to falsify information.

If you read UEFA's statement on these sanctions, they heavily imply falsified financials, which is very different from what happened with PSG for example.  With PSG, UEFA took a discount rate against revenue coming from sister companies because it couldn't be justified several years back.  Subsequent commercial deals made by Man U, Real Madrid, etc. legitimized those numbers later.  And PSG signed a massive deal with Accor Hotel Group in France (50 mil euros a year), which set the standard in proving their revenue recognition for everything else.

City was incredibly stupid and arrogant. They just ignored making a business case for themselves.

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Post by El Gunner on Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:16 pm

^^that's some pretty dodgy shit hey lol they deserve a demotion to the Championship as well

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Post by Doc on Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:36 pm

So basically, City committed fraud?

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Post by Firenze on Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:39 pm

yes

and the club's official stance and fans think they're being persecuted unfairly rofl
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Post by Doc on Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:45 pm

@Firenze wrote:yes

and the club's official stance and fans think they're being persecuted unfairly rofl

Not surprising. I wouldn't expect the club to admit guilt nor would I expect the fans to be all "yeah, the club committed wrong doing and deserved to be punished".

But if, according to what Sports wrote, is what took place i.e falsifying financial documents, getting a 2 year ban is quite nice. Almost a slap on the wrist tbh.

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Post by JespSwe on Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:56 pm

whats Ferran Soriano statement on this? he hasnt said a single word...
maybe barca or real fans know him better ... any idea if he has what it takes to prove otherwise because in wiki all kind of shady stuff is written so...

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Post by sportsczy on Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:39 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/14/leaked-emails-and-invoices-led-to-manchester-city-ban-from-champions-league-europe-uefa

It's more the owner funneling money to Etihad and other "sponsors", who then forwarded the money to City.  That's ridiculous and they got caught.

UEFA has literally no choice but to come down hard in this case. All this was leaked to the media no less lol.

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Post by urbaNRoots on Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:26 pm

Imagine thinking some hotel group gives PSG 50 million per year lmao. Don’t worry, PSG are next.
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