Decade Review

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Post by Perucho21 Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:41 am

First off Merry Christmas, Feliz Navidad and happy holidays and all that.

As we are in the middle of a break, I thought it would be fun to discuss this past decade.

I would say Madrid fans have enjoyed the majority of this decade. Four CLs and 2 La Ligas is pretty darn good considering we were going up against a fantastic Barca, rejuvenated Atletico and other great teams in Europe.

I would like to share some of the few things I liked and disliked as well as my 2010s best 11. You guys can share answers as well

Best moment: Ramos header in 2014 CL. Don't think anything tops that.
Worst moment: There's been plenty of bad moments, but I would put last year's elimination against Ajax on top. Pretty much signified the end of an era.

Best transfer: Casemiro from Sao Paulo to Real Madrid (First loan, then purchased) in 2013. 6 million euros and an absolute steal. He has solidified himself as one of our most important players and arguably the best in his position in the world currently. Honorable mention: Luka Modric.
Worst transfer: Nuri Sahin. I remember there was a lot of hype surrounding him when we signed him from Dortmund, unfortunately, it did not work out and is largely forgotten. Honorable mention: Illarramendi (considering the price we paid for him)

Best XI:

Navas
Carvajal Ramos Pepe Marcelo
Modric Casemiro Kroos
Bale Benzema Ronaldo

Bench: Casillas, Varane, Nacho, Xabi Alonso, Isco, Di Maria, Higuain

Manager: Zidane

Player of the decade: Cristiano Ronaldo. No doubt about it.

What are you guys thoughts and what are you expectations for the next decade?
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Post by Thimmy Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:27 am

I think we peaked when our players peaked, and declined when our players declined. The next decade will likely be similar. The question is how far that peak will take us, how long will it last? And how strong will our rivaling teams be?

With youngsters like Fede Valverde and Martin Ødegaard On our books, and possibly, Kylian Mbappe as well, we would at least have 3 prospects with limitless potential. That makes me hopeful.

Our transfer activity will be key. I don’t care as much who our manager is, as long as we have the right players and the manager isn’t outright incompetent. It’s ultimately the quality of our players that set us apart from other teams.
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Post by halamadrid2 Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:44 am

I'd definitely have Ozil in there for Bale. Don't think I saw anyone with his ability in a long time

It's been a great decade, save for a few let downs mostly in the league

Perez has been an excellent president who has made the right decision more often than not

Look forward to what the next decade has in store for us
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Post by sportsczy Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:13 am

We bought a lot of our key plays... i.e. CR, Benzema, Ramos, Pepe, Ozil, Di Maria, Higuain, Marcelo, etc... early on this past decade or we already had them going in.

This coming decade, other than Varane and Valverde, we really don't have young but proven WC talent players going in.

It takes time to develop younger player AND get the team to gel. It's going to be somewhat more challenging imo unless we start buying more.

THAT SAID, there's no team like Pep's Barca out there. So in terms of competition, there isn't a top target... but there are more teams that can compete with EPL having so much cash.
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Post by Varnagel Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:16 am

Real Madrid won only 2 LaLiga titles during 2010s decade.

Meanwhile, Barcelona have 7 LaLiga titles and Atletico de Madrid have 1 LaLiga title.

It's fair to say the club grossly underachieved in spite of winning 4 Champions League.


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Post by Thimmy Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:56 am

sportsczy wrote:We bought a lot of our key plays... i.e. CR, Benzema, Ramos, Pepe, Ozil, Di Maria, Higuain, Marcelo, etc...  early on this past decade or we already had them going in.

This coming decade, other than Varane and Valverde, we really don't have young but proven WC talent players going in.

It takes time to develop younger player AND get the team to gel.  It's going to be somewhat more challenging imo unless we start buying more.

THAT SAID, there's no team like Pep's Barca out there.  So in terms of competition, there isn't a top target...  but there are more teams that can compete with EPL having so much cash.


Not only are there more teams that can compete, but the transfer market has likely hit a peak, as far as transfer prices go. We can no longer replace half of the team in one transfer window, unless we go for young prospects that have yet to have their price tags inflated, and that’s more often than not a massive gamble. Other than that, we can acquire 1-2 established players per season. It’s a safer, short-term option, but the relatively few, established, top players that exist at the moment, seem to be firmly locked to the teams they already play for.

For a top team, having elite talent scouts is absolutely key to success these days. We have an edge in being among the very most, if not the most attractive destination for players who are open to leave, but we still have to choose our transfer targets wisely. It’s going to be exciting to witness what sort of talents will emerge in football over the next decade. For the sake of our future success, we’ll hopefully get our hands on some of them.

With Fede, Ødegaard and Mbappe, I think we’d have a fantastic foundation or starting point, going into the next decade. As always, the tough part will likely be in acquiring defenders that are up to scratch. Militao has looked good, in my opinion, but it’s too early to say whether he’s good enough, and if he’s capable of providing adequate consistency in his performances.
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Post by Art Morte Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:12 am

In September 2010 Liverpool lost to Northampton Town at Anfield in the League Cup and were facing possible administration. In December 2019 we are the reigning Champions League holders and have a great chance to win the club's first domestic league title in 30 years. We win this thread.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:43 am

@thimmy...  you're 90% right on.  But transfer prices have not peaked.  They will keep going up.  All media contracts, and especially the EPL one, have significant year-to-year increases.  More money for clubs = more money to spend on transfers.  Limited supply with a lot of demand...  guarantee you prices will keep going up.

Only time prices come down is in downtown in economics in the world of European football and world football in general.  The complete opposite is happening.

The other impact is that more clubs don't need to sell.  So you have less players available.  People make fun that Ligue 1 has become mostly a poverty league.  But thank god the French LFP and country in general are commercial morons...  they're about the only decent league where you can buy good players regularly since clubs need to sell.  In fact, that's their business model.  They don't invest in transfers.  They invest in their academies and buying young kids to populate them.
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Post by futbol_bill Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:45 pm

Are you saying that the fact that almost all of the 100M+ signings haven’t worked out well, won’t have an effect on the game’s economics?
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Post by The Madrid One Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:46 pm

Very good decade for us, but the CLs cover various insufficiencies from Perez in the football department. Albeit then again, there are hardly any clubs who seem to be run much better.

Bayern Munich, ac Milan, man United, Chelsea, arsenal, inter, they're all cucks now, only a handful of clubs seem "alive" but none of them are run all too impressively. PSG and Man City are run by rich terrorists, and Liverpool, Barca, and Juventus are what's left.

In terms of league titles, Barca have won more because of Messi, but more importantly they have had better forwards than Madrid for the past 20 years at least, and goals are the bottom line.

Going forward, it seems like Perez is doing well by renovating Madrid's stadium, taking an aggressive stance with youngsters, making great deals that expand Madrid's brand and reach, but we will also need to spend on the elite forwards in world football if we want to win. Barca have been more aggressive in that respect, the Ronaldo, Benzema, Bale trio always had a stagnant feel to it and we still haven't truly updated.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:16 pm

futbol_bill wrote:Are you saying that the fact that almost all of the 100M+ signings haven’t worked out well, won’t have an effect on the game’s economics?

No they won't.  A signing not working out well in terms of football expectations for local fans has nothing to do with economic impact...  for example, over the past 5 years, here are lists of transfer activity net by club:

EPL - https://www.transfermarkt.us/premier-league/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/GB1
La Liga - https://www.transfermarkt.com/primera-division/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/ES1
Serie A - https://www.transfermarkt.us/serie-a/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/IT1
Ligue 1 - https://www.transfermarkt.com/ligue-1/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/FR1
Bundi - https://www.transfermarkt.com/1-bundesliga/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/L1

Here's the top 10 net spending over past 5 years in order:
1- Man City - 762.3 million
2- Man U - 554.30
3- AC Milan - 467.6
4- PSG - 444.6
5- Inter - 353.8
6- Barca - 339.3
7- Arsenal -333.6
8- Everton - 285.5
9- Juventus - 282.7
10- Brighton & Hove Albion - 261.5

Notables not in top 10:
Real Madrid - 180.0
Bayern - 173.5
Chelsea - 140.9
Liverpool - 136.5

A lot of surprises on that list. If you go to the EPL list, there  are a ton of teams pushing 200 mil and that's going to only go up.

My point is that how much a club is willing to spend on a player is a percentage of the total transfer budget.  So as long as the club revenues are going up and they can afford to spend 100 million on a player or more, they will spend 100 million or more.  It's relative....  you can't look at it as an absolute number.

Given that revenue in football are skyrocketing every year, the transfer budgets are going to continue to rise as you're going to have more money chasing the same players.

It's simple economics.


Last edited by sportsczy on Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by titosantill Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:18 pm

An interesting decade. Since Glasgow, we had been crying for success in europe, and considering how the last decade ended, with us failing to get out of the 2nd round, 4 UCLs was a huge improvement. We also signed some exciting players, and I preferred this decade to the last one. Though I havent given that full thought.

2 Liga titles in ten years is not on, that's a huge problem. Even in the last decade we only had 4 ligas; we have to improve on that, we cant just sit and watch barca rack up league titles. Hell even atleti shouldnt be winning a league

Biggest moment ; obviously ramos header in la decima . I still find it difficult to watch, I wonder what wud have happened had we lost


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Post by Doc Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:10 pm

This decade was great when you only consider European conquest. When your mind goes to La Liga, you'll realise how fucking shitty it has been. If you really are technical, from 2009 to 2019, we've won 1 La Liga title. Yes, the 2008/2009 title went to Barcelona, 2009/2010 went to Barcelona as well and of course, 2010/2011. We've only won 1 La Liga title in the decade that is 2009 to 2019.

That is horse shit. Like really horse shit.

Edit: That should definitely read 2 La Liga titles in 10. Honestly forgot about the Zidane win.


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Post by titosantill Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:37 pm

Doc wrote:This decade was great when you only consider European conquest. When your mind goes to La Liga, you'll realise how fucking shitty it has been. If you really are technical, from 2009 to 2019, we've won 1 La Liga title. Yes, the 2008/2009 title went to Barcelona, 2009/2010 went to Barcelona as well and of course, 2010/2011. We've only won 1 La Liga title in the decade that is 2009 to 2019.

That is horse shit. Like really horse shit.


we won one with mourinho and one with zidane. still a crap output but yeah. and whilst the pro-madrid media may act like its no big deal, its a huge deal, considering the fact we weren't that great in the league in the last decade either

great moments- ramos' header, cristiano's calma, zidane's hattrick. bad moments- the entire last season (including the games we won when the league was already lost with nothing to play for), every clasico loss where we conceded more than 3 goals (i'm not doing specifics)
ugly moments- fax machine fiasco, cheryshev substitution debacle, iker-mourinho feud, the entire last season
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Post by futbol_bill Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:41 pm

You guys! I dare say the expectations here are unrealistic. This past decade has been the greatest ever for this incredible club. The 4 CLs in 5 years is indisputable as the greatest achievement ever for any club. Sure it would have been great to have more Ligas or even Copa, but these are lessor competitions. It is practically impossible to be capturing trophies in more than one competition. Barca obviously concentrates on one and we on the other. The only way to consistently capture both, is to have two teams. As long as the coaching philosophy is to have a set 11 and only use backups when necessary, you have to change the expectations to accept the concentration on a single trophy pursuit.
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Post by Thimmy Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:36 pm

sportsczy wrote:@thimmy...  you're 90% right on.  But transfer prices have not peaked.  They will keep going up.  All media contracts, and especially the EPL one, have significant year-to-year increases.  More money for clubs = more money to spend on transfers.  Limited supply with a lot of demand...  guarantee you prices will keep going up.


Well, that remains to be seen. As of right now, I believe the absolutely ridiculous sum paid for Neymar was the highest transfer fee we’ll ever see in football. Financial Fairplay might as well be removed if that record is ever beaten. It is possible that the average transfer fee increases, but the what, 250m reportedly paid for Neymar is completely and utterly absurd.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:48 pm

If you look at my rankings above, you'll see that PSG is actually 4th in net spending over the past 5 years.

And they spent 200 on Neymar and 160 mil on Mbappe.  But those were fantastic investments for them...  just last year, their revenue jumped from 542 mil to 646 mil in 1 year's time!  And most of that, according to Deloitte, was their share on image rights revenue on Mbappe and Neymar.  They actually made less money in CL.

Also, they are expected to at least match if not exceed the 360 spent on Mbappe and Neymar when they sell (150 for Neymar and 250 mil for Mbappe are the minimums asked).

So i don't see how that's crazy money.  It's actually great business.  AC Milan and Inter Milan spend stupid money as they overpay for good, not great, player who aren't very marketable. PSG does great business tbh. Just look at Icardi... they got him for nothing basically.
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Post by Doc Wed Dec 25, 2019 5:02 am

That should read two La Liga titles in 10 years and not 1. Oof.

Still though, that's shitty. But if you just look at our European conquest, we did amazing. Nothing short of legendary.
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Post by Nishankly Wed Dec 25, 2019 6:45 am

Art Morte wrote:In September 2010 Liverpool lost to Northampton Town at Anfield in the League Cup and were facing possible administration. In December 2019 we are the reigning Champions League holders and have a great chance to win the club's first domestic league title in 30 years. We win this thread.
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Post by sportsczy Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:50 am

Nishankly wrote:
Art Morte wrote:In September 2010 Liverpool lost to Northampton Town at Anfield in the League Cup and were facing possible administration. In December 2019 we are the reigning Champions League holders and have a great chance to win the club's first domestic league title in 30 years. We win this thread.

You're no longer complete shit after 30 years. Congratulations. This is a big boy thread though... we're complaining about winning 4 CLs and 2 league titles in in the last 10 years
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Post by titosantill Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:07 am

futbol_bill wrote:You guys! I dare say the expectations here are unrealistic. This past decade has been the greatest ever for this incredible club. The 4 CLs in 5 years is indisputable as the greatest achievement ever for any club. Sure it would have been great to have more Ligas or even Copa, but these are lessor competitions. It is practically impossible to be capturing trophies in more than one competition. Barca obviously concentrates on one and we on the other. The only way to consistently capture both, is to have two teams. As long as the coaching philosophy is to have a set 11 and only use backups when necessary, you have to change the expectations to accept the concentration on a single trophy pursuit.


first of all a club like madrid shouldn't be concentrating on only one title. secondly, barca haven't concentrated on one title, they've won 2 trebles in the last ten or so years, they've won multiple doubles than i care to count in the last ten years and they've been to ucl semis on at least 3 or 4 occasions. so no, they aren't concentrating on one title, and it isn't impossible to capture more than one trophy, hell we've done it twice with carlo and zidane, so it is NOT impossible

nobody is poopooing the decade, but 2 ligas in ten years is pathetic for a club like ours, i'm sorry i don't have any nice way of saying it. and if we keep acting like our s*** don't stink, that poor output will continue.
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Post by futbol_bill Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:09 am

Sports, you’re using PSG as the the sampling for the continuation of transfer fees escalation. This is a club that is unlike all the others in terms of owner finances except possibly City. And as you have pointed out, their expensive transfer have worked out for them.

Try that analysis on all the clubs that have made the 100+ signings, the vast majority of which have been disappointment.

So although I will buy your argument re EPL clubs have financial capacity plus PSG, I think most clubs will be hesitant to spend more than 100M unless it truly is an elite player. There are far too many examples of players looking like elite and turning out to be duds.

Then there is Barca that have to borrow money just to meet payroll! I see people using them as an example of how to make expensive transfers, yet they are at best only slightly better than us and ALL of their recent transfers have been duds!
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Post by futbol_bill Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:15 am

Tito, I said practically impossible. Or difficult! Yes it can be done, but it’s rare. I still say that you really need 2 teams to be able to do that and as long as coaches insist on using 12 to 15 players, it is practically impossible.
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Post by titosantill Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:34 am

'practically' means it can be done , we just have to work for it. and come on this is madrid, are we all of a sudden saying we don't want to set high standards anymore? it was also "practically impossible" to win a ucl back to back. but if we go in with that kind of mentality, we might as well start talking like solari saying we should appreciate our draws or wenger talking about 4th place trophies. if our biggest rival is doing it and we are supposed to be the bigger and better club, then there's no excuse

i do agree, with you that you need depth to do that, proper depth, and i've been a strong advocate of that for years, that's a huge part of what helped us win the two ligas. but that's up to the club to ponder on about, maybe they are comfortable with barcelona closing the league trophy gap
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Post by sportsczy Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:31 am

futbol_bill wrote:Sports, you’re using PSG as the the sampling for the continuation of transfer fees escalation. This is a club that is unlike all the others in terms of owner finances except possibly City. And as you have pointed out, their expensive transfer have worked out for them.

Try that analysis on all the clubs that have made the 100+ signings, the vast majority of which have been disappointment.

So although I will buy your argument re EPL clubs have financial capacity plus PSG, I think most clubs will be hesitant to spend more than 100M unless it truly is an elite player. There are far too many examples of players looking like elite and turning out to be duds.

Then there is Barca that have to borrow money just to meet payroll! I see people using them as an example of how to make expensive transfers, yet they are at best only slightly better than us and ALL of their recent transfers have been duds!

No i'm not. I'm pointing that they are actually the 4th net biggest spender (City outspent them by almost 2x) AND there are more than 10 clubs that spent net over 250 million over the past 5 years.... with that net spend increasing significantly overall in the EPL every year.

PSG has a false reputation for crazy spending when they literally only spend big on superstars like Neymar, Ibra and Mbappe... otherwise, they invest in young players like Kehrer, Verratti, Diallo, Marquinhos, Kurzawa (all of which were 22 years or younger at purchase).

Your 'this spending can't continue' and 'PSG is a crazy spender' lines hold absolutely no water when looking at overall economic facts.
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