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Post by McLewis on Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:45 pm

@Adit wrote:Since Obama got nobel price for bombing brown men what will Trump get for brokering historic peace deal?


As someone who voted for Obama twice, this was always one of my biggest gripes with his legacy. That the Peace prize was awarded to him, given our foreign policy strategy at that time, cheapens it in my eyes.

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:08 am

The Nobel peace price is about as meaningful for peace as the Ballon D'Or is for footballing quality
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Post by Babun on Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:22 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:The Nobel peace price is about as meaningful for peace as the Ballon D'Or is for footballing quality

Winning Balon D'or is much harder :coffee:
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Post by Pedram on Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:05 am

Still can't believe he sent this letter to a head of state. rofl

Donald Trump watch - Page 37 EHBmdVLW4AIk3IT?format=jpg&name=900x900
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Post by Arquitecto on Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:27 pm

Obama winning the Nobel forever had me ignore any future awards of the organisation forever.

No explanation needed on why that was utterly pathetic.
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Post by VivaStPauli on Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:41 pm

Meh;
while I never would've given the peace prize to Obama, in the context of the Bush years, it made a modicum of sense. It was the wrong decision, yes, but I get why they did it, and it wasn't insane or anything.
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Post by McLewis on Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:45 pm



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Post by McLewis on Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:50 pm



Dude's gonna fuck around and make us all anti-vaxxers.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:17 pm

@McLewis wrote:



Very interesting, I hope it sticks

I also wonder how much of this is the 'convention boost' waning off
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Post by Myesyats on Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:53 pm

“This state was pioneered by men and women who braved the wilderness and the winters to build a better life for themselves and for their families. They were tough, and they were strong. You have good genes, you know that, right?” Mr Trump said to applause from supporters.

“You have good genes. A lot of it’s about the genes isn’t it, don’t you believe? The racehorse theory you think was so different? You have good genes in Minnesota.”



hmm
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:42 pm

Can anyone claim he's not racist any more?
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Post by Myesyats on Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:56 pm

The racehorse theory is basic Nazi rhetoric. This is truly disturbing even by Trump's standards.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:04 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Can anyone claim he's not racist any more?

Of course not. As if this was anything new. He's been certified racist since decades. It's the one true persuasion he has.
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Post by VivaStPauli on Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:16 pm

@Myesyats wrote:The racehorse theory is basic Nazi rhetoric. This is truly disturbing even by Trump's standards.


I mean it is truly disturbing, but it's not any worse than anything he's said so far.
It won't change anything though, four more years it is. Can't help it.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:29 pm

If anyone wants to get depressed give this a read about what could possibly happen if there is a close election where Trump wins on election night but mail-in-ballots are still being counted:

https://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2020/09/storm-coming.html#more
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Post by elitedam on Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:12 pm

Democratic acknowledgement that Trump really did win in 2016 and is the legitimate President of the United States has been soft at best.

In my view the right wing, being a little more invested in the whole idea of America and her Constitution as a useful construct, is less likely to view the result as illegitimate and take to the streets in violent protest.

I can't tell if this guy believes this horseshit or if he's arguing that other people do.
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Post by elitedam on Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:14 pm

Did you read The Atlantic's version?

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/
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Post by Myesyats on Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:21 pm

No way Trump wins. He's losing ground with white voters. I'm more optimistic now than ever before.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:25 pm

@elitedam wrote:
Democratic acknowledgement that Trump really did win in 2016 and is the legitimate President of the United States has been soft at best.

In my view the right wing, being a little more invested in the whole idea of America and her Constitution as a useful construct, is less likely to view the result as illegitimate and take to the streets in violent protest.

I can't tell if this guy believes this horseshit or if he's arguing that other people do.

For the first people still largely remind everyone he didn't win the popular vote, say things like #NotMyPresident, etc. I think that's what he's referring to, that to some people he's not legitimate.

For the 2nd I think it was a point about how "taking to the streets" is largely a city phenomenon and there aren't many cities that are republican dominant
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Post by CBarca on Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:29 pm

The way he frames those statements is pretty poor. You're putting things in the best possible light here BC.

1) There are plenty Republicans and right wingers in cities. 2) He frames it as "the right wing is more invested in the Constitution as a useful construct", implying that the left wing doesn't care about the Constitution, 3) the idea that right wingers would be any LESS willing to take to the streets than Dems is absolutely laughable, and reeks of recency bias, since left wing activism has recently taken to the streets (although right wingers have been as well).
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:34 pm

I'm just copying what he said, really:

In my view the right wing, being a little more invested in the whole idea of America and her Constitution as a useful construct, is less likely to view the result as illegitimate and take to the streets in violent protest. They're mighty upset about creeping socialism and all, but that is a policy difference. Plus there aren't many right wingers in the big cities, and there is not much to loot and burn in the Trump-land country side. But I could be wrong about that.

(I see some commenters already think I'm wrong on that. Please send in comments with your scenarios. The more credible scenarios we can articulate, and the more bipartisan the danger, the stronger my point.)

Happy to accept he's wrong, and he seems to be too.

In any case I don't think it impacts the larger point he's making about the dangers of a contested election
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Post by elitedam on Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:44 pm

For the first people still largely remind everyone he didn't win the popular vote, say things like #NotMyPresident, etc. I think that's what he's referring to, that to some people he's not legitimate.

That's a stretch. The vast majority of democrats recognized that he won the election. People using #NotMyPresident as a protest doesn't change that.

For the 2nd I think it was a point about how "taking to the streets" is largely a city phenomenon and there aren't many cities that are republican dominant

I understood that part. I was referring to the BS about "the right wing, being a little more invested in the whole idea of America and her Constitution as a useful construct".
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:51 pm

Yeah that could be his own bias coming across. Republicans certainly make more of a show of constitution worship but I agree that it in practice they're just as happy to ignore it when convenient as the dems, if not more.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:02 pm

Only thing Republicans are about is bullshitting, and it's not just Trump but every single one of them, even the famous "principled" or "libertarian" ones like the Pauls, even if to smaller degrees. Trump just embodies the id of this party that has always been present beneath.

Small government, fiscal responsibility, family values, national security, constitutionalism, personal liberty, social mobility, free market, law and order, they have successfully managed to message these slogans as their brand claims, but the reality is it's all complete BS and lies.
They don't stand for, or promote, any of this in terms of policies, and have never. That is the stark truth that is very important to realize. You can skip all these debates, they are not held in good faith.

Complete and utter BS, poured all over an amalgam of cronyism and personal enrichment, personal corruption both in terms of ethics and morals, defrauding the public by way of crony capitalism and state-sponsored privatization, systematic self-serving injustice by way of lawlessness and terrorization and exploitation of POC, active destruction of consitutional freedoms and rights as basic as the right to vote, that is what they are all about, and everyone that actually tries to construct an argument with these above mentioned slogan elements as part of being a Republican "philosophy" or "world-view", in a kind of market-place-of-ideas scenario, is a fool at best or most likely a liar.

Obama, for example, was a fool for attempting good faith compromises with this Republican party.
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Post by McLewis on Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:52 am

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Post by iftikhar on Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:06 pm

I will ask a very cynical, serious, yet in the given context, very practical question.

Is USA sliding towards a civil war!!! Well civil war might be stretching it a bit too far, but a prolonged period of widespread violent conflicts.

Black Panther existed in a similar situation of morbid atrocities towards minority (all sorts) groups and things like KKK never really ceased to exist.

Scenario #1: Trump wins and an embolden federal officers, police forces and militia groups continues the legacy of atrocities, abuse and discrimination. Protests become more violent. Federal & local forces and militia groups responds with absolute sense of impunity; spraying protesters with bullets (pretty common in USA) and taking out key organizers in surgical strikes. More violent protests. The cycle continues.

Scenario #2: Trump loses (unlikely) and refuses to step down. Federal & local forces and militia groups tries to suppress widespread protests. Protests become violent. Trump declares state of emergency/martial law. More violent protests. The cycle continues.
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