Re: Donald Trump Sack Watch

by CBarca Tue May 12, 2020 6:19 pm

Young Kaz wrote:
CBarca wrote:Hah. This only proves what I said earlier about Kimmel.

Dude sucks.

Late night is in such a terrible place right now. How did we go from Letterman/Conan to Fallon/Kimmel/Seth Myers?

The same Conan which couldnt keep Leno off air?

I'll always appreciate Conan for his contributions to prime Simpsons, but dude cant carry a network show.

I was at Georgia Tech so I was always awake studying at night when they had the late night fallout, and while Leno did Conan wrong for having that 10 o clock show leading into the news and Conan, it was apparent that Conan's edition of the tonight show was awful. It only marginally got better as it went, but even then he turned the huge ratings lead Leno had over Kimmel and Lettermen to a net negative relatively quickly.

I hear his show on TBS(which he went to and did Lopez in the exact same fashion Leno did him) is just as bad. The ratings sure say so, but its cable. Ratings dont matter on cable lol.

I mean you're not wrong regarding Conan's rendition of The Tonight Show. It started off pretty meh. I would argue it got better as it went along. This is the case with all hosts of The Tonight Show, anyway, it's an institution and the individuals running it need to grow into it and also allow the show/audience to adapt to them as well. Unfortunately, Conan was never really afforded the time for that to happen. I think part of that responsibility lands on him, but part of it lands on the network, too.

Either way, it was a good thing in the end. Conan moved to TBS where he had more freedom from the ultimately restrictive and reductive network TV environment, and he's been thriving there ever since. If you look at the quality of his show relative to what Kimmel/Fallon put out, it's on a different level. His ability as a comedian is far above those two as well. His time on The Simpsons is a part of that, but even now, his podcast and his remotes (Conan Without Borders) is heads and shoulders above anything that late night has been putting out for a while, minus everything Letterman does (as he is the true king of late night as long as I've been alive).

I'm not going to judge the quality of late night based on ratings, to be honest. The Big Bang Theory was a ratings mammoth and that show is awful. I do typically try to use numbers and data to back up arguments, but this is all more of my opinion than some sort of objective truth I'm trying to portray.

As a sidenote that's only somewhat related to the quality of his show (beyond the fact that his interviewing ability is far superior to Jimmy "laugh at everything" Fallon), it's clear from the friendships he's made and the rapport he has with many of his guests, both on his podcast and the show, that he's a very beloved individual to many. Other than Letterman, I don't think there is a more well liked guy in the Late Night circuit. He's been around forever, in this racket, and by all accounts is a fantastic person. Look up an interview of him with Bill Burr vs an interview of Fallon with Bill Burr and the difference is striking.

by Young Kaz Tue May 12, 2020 6:47 pm

CBarca wrote:
Young Kaz wrote:
CBarca wrote:Hah. This only proves what I said earlier about Kimmel.

Dude sucks.

Late night is in such a terrible place right now. How did we go from Letterman/Conan to Fallon/Kimmel/Seth Myers?

The same Conan which couldnt keep Leno off air?

I'll always appreciate Conan for his contributions to prime Simpsons, but dude cant carry a network show.

I was at Georgia Tech so I was always awake studying at night when they had the late night fallout, and while Leno did Conan wrong for having that 10 o clock show leading into the news and Conan, it was apparent that Conan's edition of the tonight show was awful. It only marginally got better as it went, but even then he turned the huge ratings lead Leno had over Kimmel and Lettermen to a net negative relatively quickly.

I hear his show on TBS(which he went to and did Lopez in the exact same fashion Leno did him) is just as bad. The ratings sure say so, but its cable. Ratings dont matter on cable lol.

I mean you're not wrong regarding Conan's rendition of The Tonight Show. It started off pretty meh. I would argue it got better as it went along. This is the case with all hosts of The Tonight Show, anyway, it's an institution and the individuals running it need to grow into it and also allow the show/audience to adapt to them as well. Unfortunately, Conan was never really afforded the time for that to happen. I think part of that responsibility lands on him, but part of it lands on the network, too.

Either way, it was a good thing in the end. Conan moved to TBS where he had more freedom from the ultimately restrictive and reductive network TV environment, and he's been thriving there ever since. If you look at the quality of his show relative to what Kimmel/Fallon put out, it's on a different level. His ability as a comedian is far above those two as well. His time on The Simpsons is a part of that, but even now, his podcast and his remotes (Conan Without Borders) is heads and shoulders above anything that late night has been putting out for a while, minus everything Letterman does (as he is the true king of late night as long as I've been alive).

I'm not going to judge the quality of late night based on ratings, to be honest. The Big Bang Theory was a ratings mammoth and that show is awful. I do typically try to use numbers and data to back up arguments, but this is all more of my opinion than some sort of objective truth I'm trying to portray.

As a sidenote that's only somewhat related to the quality of his show (beyond the fact that his interviewing ability is far superior to Jimmy "laugh at everything" Fallon), it's clear from the friendships he's made and the rapport he has with many of his guests, both on his podcast and the show, that he's a very beloved individual to many. Other than Letterman, I don't think there is a more well liked guy in the Late Night circuit. He's been around forever, in this racket, and by all accounts is a fantastic person. Look up an interview of him with Bill Burr vs an interview of Fallon with Bill Burr and the difference is striking.

I didnt watch Big Bang Theory a lot, but as a sitcom its a pretty good example of a perfectly written one. Great characters with a great cast that acted off each other really well and a really great writing team that didnt ALWAYS go to the lowest common denominator while appealing to most audiences. I think they earned the great ratings they had.

Conan probably does better with his cable show, but as you mention he has been given more. They can fund his side projects and travel shows. Jimmy Kimmel could certainly do that if Disney funded it, and to great effect. His interviews with Obama,Kobe Bryant..ect are some of the best I have ever seen from a host in general. The man is talented and can play to an audience.

Fallon is terrible, but hes a made man. He is Lorne Michaels boy, so he can do no wrong despite being over his head on the show on most nights. It goes to show who you know will always go further than what you do though. Look at the person manning the late late show on NBC now. Lilly Singh. Her show is not as bad as Fallon was when he started, nor is really as bad as those first few conan shows where he would weirdly make gestures to the camera and creep everybody out, but she isnt a harvard girl and she isnt Lorne Michaels goldenchild. Her show is effectively done for that reason alone.

by Arquitecto Wed May 13, 2020 5:36 pm

Conan for me is so far above any talk show host its not even funny.

Leno I am indifferent to.
Fallon laughs at his own jokes, end of.
Kimmel is a hack.
Carson was a pioneer but outdated.
Letterman is a good host but not outright pure comedy.

His brand of humour doesn't need direction he is just naturally funny and very intelligent at that and without trying hard.

He isn't the best with a crowd yes but truly one of those comedians who's humour cannot be taught.

by Freeza Wed May 13, 2020 5:44 pm

I think Desus and Mero are by far the best tbh. Their format is also vastly superior.

Trevor Noah is second place for me.

Then there's Conan, Seth Myers and John Oliver who are also good.

Jimmy Fallon and James Corden are equally terrible.

by McLewis Wed May 13, 2020 5:52 pm

I don't watch much late night TV myself. John Stewart and Stephen Colbert were staples for me when I did. Nowadays, I'll tune into John Oliver ever so often, but that's it.

by Hapless_Hans Wed May 13, 2020 5:54 pm

None of them is terrible, depends what you want a late show to accomplish

absolutely nothing wrong with James Corden, but he's not a political commentator as others are

in Trump times, Fallon seems shallow, and his positivity and enthusiam shtick is tiring, but he is a good entertainer

Colbert was sinking until he could take on Trump, no coinicidence as he was infinitely, lightyear and galaxies better back then as a political satirist than as a network TV primetime entertainer. The Colbert Report was such an amazing show. Ham Rove ffs Laughing

I used to adore him so much, not so much anymore. Don't want to hear another word about his fucking catholicism or fucking Lord of the Rings.

John Oliver's show is simply excellent in terms of substance and execution, but it's just once a week and much more focused

Noah is simply a very likeable and funny host, and he's getting the self-isolation shows done much better than anyone else as he's a natural, even if in terms of political analysis the Daily Show is sometimes a bit underwhelming, and evven if his interviews mostly is just complimenting guests on their greatness who have achieved something normal and then are made out to be moral leaders by virtue of being of colour or otherwise belonging to some marginalized group, even if they're really just top paid black athletes with a foundation or astronauts who are female.
Not going to complain about that, he can be a good interviewer if he wants to be, and his corona interviews have for example been much better than before in his normal show

Conan is a really hilarious guy but his show is pretty terrible, which of course feeds into his gags.

Seth Meyers is good too. Sam Bee is great. Kimmel strikes me as a bit reactionary in humour but he's not bad either, really.

My favourite was Craig Ferguson, but as a comedian reluctant to be overtly political, he too would be out of place in the current climate

All in all, US american late night TV is a pretty great achievement of human culture

by Young Kaz Wed May 13, 2020 11:47 pm

Cant stand Noah. He says stupid things, and plays on Africa for cheap laughs.

He actually made a huge joke segment out of the fact that Jacob Zuma(ex south African president) couldnt read numbers correctly. Jacob Zuma, a guy who got a less than stellar education because he had to spend his youth fighting to make it so that kids who look like him were able to get an education today, being clowned by a guy who would always get a better education than him by virtue of having a white father. Really rubbed me the wrong way.

Its offensive. Zuma, who I am no fan of, is a freedom fighter and deserves more respect to American audiences rather than being a joke for having grown up under a form of Jim Crow.

by El Gunner Thu May 14, 2020 12:02 am

think you're taking it too seriously, he's a comedian/satire show host, he is supposed to take the shit out of political figures. Zuma has been a hot-topic for most of his stand up career as well.

Zuma is a laughing/hating stock to most South Africans, very much almost a mini-Trump version of South Africa. He's just more cute, always laughing and serving up something funny

by Young Kaz Thu May 14, 2020 12:13 am

El Gunner wrote:think you're taking it too seriously, he's a comedian/satire show host, he is supposed to take the shit out of political figures. Zuma has been a hot-topic for most of his stand up career as well.

Zuma is a laughing/hating stock to most South Africans, very much almost a mini-Trump version of South Africa. He's just more cute, always laughing and serving up something funny

I agree there are many things you can rightfully, and humorously, take the piss out of Zuma for. The fact he grew up in a time where most black children werent taught mathematics is not one. Its offensive, and rhetoric that will push the average voter, who is increasingly becoming that 80's generation whos parents were most likely the first to actually get a fair shake at education, further towards a more extreme version of his party.

by rincon Thu May 14, 2020 1:11 am

Late night is great. Conan is the best but there is also Colbert, Noah, Oliver (does he count?), and Kimmel who are great.

Dont see where the overly negative thoughts on the state of late night shows comes from.

by sportsczy Thu May 14, 2020 2:07 am

I like Colbert and Conan personally.

by Myesyats Thu May 14, 2020 11:41 am

Are we talking only about Americans here? Because I reckon Graham Norton shits on all of them

by The Demon of Carthage Fri May 15, 2020 2:00 pm

Totally forgot about Graham. He's definitely my favorite and I would even put him above Conan.

His delivery and wit are second to none. Plus, his couch looks so comfy eco smile

by futbol_bill Fri May 15, 2020 2:09 pm

I don’t watch any of them, as they are on after my bedtime! But I do see reruns of their better stuff. Most of it is them making fun of Trump and let’s face it, he is an easy target. The comics were cheering when he was elected because the material is supplied daily!

But in my mind, none of this generation of late night comics, nor the previous, compare to Johnny Carson!

by RealGunner Sat May 16, 2020 10:28 pm

pic.twitter.com/L3sxMC9fXm
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 16, 2020

by Freeza Sat May 16, 2020 10:54 pm

Wouldn't it make more sense to post this on Independence Day?

by urbaNRoots Sun May 17, 2020 7:49 am

I’m not running against Sleepy Joe Biden. He is not even a factor. Never was, remember 1% Joe? I’m running against the Radical Left, Do Nothing Democrats & their partner, the real opposition party, the Lamestream Fake News Media! They are vicious & crazy, but we will WIN! https://t.co/ltdHSmaMYT
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 16, 2020

It's crazy that tweets like that are the norm now and no one bats an eye anymore. This is the president of the US and he sounds insane.

Had to scroll for a long time before I found this tweet again, does he ever get out of Twitter? Laughing

by El Gunner Sun May 17, 2020 8:53 am

he will go down as my favourite US president ever

he is ruthless, he doesnt break character, he is a Twitter loving troll, he embodies the zeitgeist of our times - the joke that humanity has become

by The Demon of Carthage Sun May 17, 2020 10:33 am

If he ever decides to go to one of those WH Correspondents' dinners, he doesn't have to hire someone to write some jokes for him, he already has his Twitter feed.

by Myesyats Sun May 17, 2020 10:56 am

El Gunner wrote:he will go down as my favourite US president ever

he is ruthless, he doesnt break character, he is a Twitter loving troll, he embodies the zeitgeist of our times - the joke that humanity has become

twitter isnt even a big thing in Europe, is it?

literally almost no-one uses twitter in Poland lol

Trump was elected mostly becasue of the SJW movement, the cultural appropriation stuff and burning American flags, micro-agressions, it was a kind of a blowback against it imo , but things will go back to normal soon. Liberals will tell you it was Russian bots but it wasn't, it was those particular liberals.

by elitedam Sun May 17, 2020 12:09 pm

Yeah, let's blame Trump on the people that didn't vote for him.

by McLewis Sun May 17, 2020 1:12 pm

Well Myesyats is partially right though. Trump is both a symptom and the effect of what the right perceived as the country moving too far to the left under Obama (it didn't).

His election was a visceral reaction to perceived weakness from Obama's administration.

Ironically, we are weaker now than when Obama left.

by Myesyats Sun May 17, 2020 1:29 pm

Well, he wasnt elected based on his experience or merit certainly Laughing

It was mainly his "drain the swamp" thing and the firm stance against sjw

People were getting tired of the social justice movement and tbh it has died out a bit since he been elected. If you make an action, expect a reaction. I think Trump was that reaction

by elitedam Sun May 17, 2020 2:14 pm

Sorry, but I disagree completely. We can sit here all day and argue about why conservatives did what they did, but they're the ones who voted for this clown, and they're the ones responsible for him.

I honestly don't know why these people decided to vote for him. All of the reasons that I see being given are kind of weak. They may have played a part, sure, but I don't think any of them are the main reason.

by The Demon of Carthage Sun May 17, 2020 2:31 pm

I'm curious, if you don't think the extremism of the radical left is not the main reason he got elected, then what can it be in your opinion?

by sportsczy Sun May 17, 2020 2:47 pm

elitedam wrote:Sorry, but I disagree completely. We can sit here all day and argue about why conservatives did what they did, but they're the ones who voted for this clown, and they're the ones responsible for him.

I honestly don't know why these people decided to vote for him. All of the reasons that I see being given are kind of weak. They may have played a part, sure, but I don't think any of them are the main reason.

Very good reasons honestly. Any of the Republican candidates would have beat Hillary Clinton. Tbh, Trump getting the nod was considered good news by dems as he was the least likely to beat her. The reasons were as follows:
- Establishment politics are abhorred. Doesn't get more establishment than Clinton.
- The disparity in wealth... the rich got extremely rich while wages in the US have not increased in 15 years (inflation-adjusted). So the wealth created in the last 2 decades has entirely gone to the top 1% of the population. A lot of angry people.
- Iran deal. Extremely unpopular with conservatives and most moderates.
- Many felt that leadership was compromising its national interests to the benefit of China, Europe, etc. The blue-collar business owners and workers were not happy at all.
- Hillary is as unlikeable a person as you can get... although i think she is very capable. Most US voters barely know how to read... she couldn't come down to their level.

Democrats have gone completely tone-deaf once Obama got elected.

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