Donald Trump watch

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Post by El Gunner on Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:32 pm

so Bernie isn't gunna win?

The world is a complete joke

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Post by Young Kaz on Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:49 pm

@McLewis wrote:

This is what happens when we have governors listening to Trump, Rush Limbaugh and other right wing morons who have been downplaying this virus.

Many people are going to succumb to this virus because of Kemp's incompetence.

This puts his cheating to win the governorship over Stacey Abrams in stark perspective.


Kemp only won down here because hes racist.
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Post by Young Kaz on Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:49 pm

@El Gunner wrote:so Bernie isn't gunna win?

The world is a complete joke


Vote Malema brother.
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Post by CBarca on Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:59 pm

@elitedam wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:
@CBarca wrote:Biden is +3 over Trump in WI and the survey was taken March 24-29 AKA occurring during Trump's "rally 'round the flag" effect.

A long way to go until the election, and a lot will change.

But that's a bad sign for Trump

Electoral vote maps are the important indicators... not popular votes directly.  Look at those.


That's what he did. He's looking at Wisconsin polling data.


Yep.

I agree with you Sports, definitely, but that's why I pulled WI data specifically.

I've been saying for a while now that all I care about it rust belt data. I'm not interested in much else. Although North Carolina and Arizona are interesting.
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Post by CBarca on Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:07 pm

That's also why I think that Klobuchar is the best pick for Biden's VP.

She's not only an extremely competent senator who ran a pretty good campaign overall to be honest, she's a moderate, a female, and she's got crazy rust belt appeal. People here really like her. She wins MN by insane percentages. Urban, rural. Doesn't matter.

They would be a moderate team that independents can get behind. Democrats will gladly vote for that duo. Progressives will by and large bite their tongue because it's better than Trump. Black vote? Biden already has it. I feel that Kamala is an appeal to the black vote he already has (and do black Americans really even like her that much anwyay?). Biden needs to focus on the white middle class in the rust belt and I think Klobuchar is easily the best candidate for that group.

And if you don't have faith in Biden as a President, why not Klobuchar?
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Post by El Gunner on Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:00 pm

@Young Kaz wrote:
@El Gunner wrote:so Bernie isn't gunna win?

The world is a complete joke


Vote Malema brother.


Proud Laughing i would if he wasn't irresponsibly racist. The country deserves a more astute, racially integrative socialist party
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Post by Young Kaz on Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:08 pm

@El Gunner wrote:
@Young Kaz wrote:
@El Gunner wrote:so Bernie isn't gunna win?

The world is a complete joke


Vote Malema brother.


Proud Laughing i would if he wasn't irresponsibly racist. The country deserves a more astute, racially integrative socialist party


He has heart Laughing

And he was 100% true about Indians. The quickest way to have your head chopped off is to be the asian or black potential spouse of a South Indian businessman's daughter.
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Post by El Gunner on Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:27 pm

it's quite so obvious how the economic + racial divide shapes the constant results of SA's elections.

EFF will never get the Western Cape (Cape Town) and Gauteng (Joburg & Pretoria) provinces, because that's DA land. And they also won't get the Eastern rural parts of the country because that's vastly ANC land - the party that brought SA indepedence.

There's been talk between an EFF and DA coalition to finally get rid of the ANC dominion, but that coalition will never work because SA is still too heated when it comes to skin in the game Laughing
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Post by Young Kaz on Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:09 pm

DA is dead on arrival with black voters in large numbers, and EFF knows that truth more than anybody.

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:19 am

Donald Trump has fired the inspector general for the intelligence community who handled the whistleblower complaint that led to his impeachment, prompting fierce criticism from Democrats.

The US president chose a Friday night, with America consumed by the coronavirus pandemic, to tell the House of Representatives and Senate intelligence committees of his decision to dismiss Michael Atkinson.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/04/donald-trump-fires-intelligence-watchdog-michael-atkinson-impeachment
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Post by Art Morte on Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:27 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
Donald Trump has fired the inspector general for the intelligence community who handled the whistleblower complaint that led to his impeachment, prompting fierce criticism from Democrats.

The US president chose a Friday night, with America consumed by the coronavirus pandemic, to tell the House of Representatives and Senate intelligence committees of his decision to dismiss Michael Atkinson.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/04/donald-trump-fires-intelligence-watchdog-michael-atkinson-impeachment


It's absolutely ridiculous that the USA president has all this power lmao.
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Post by McLewis on Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:53 pm

Unfortunately, the ICIG (Intelligence Community Inspector General) is a presidential appointee. They do not have to go through Congressional confirmation so this makes the position completely beholden to the President.

The only realistic thing that can be done to prevent this in the future is to make that position subject to confirmation and bring it within the system of checks and balances.

Does nothing right now though.

The irony? Trump and his supporters will call this "draining the swamp".

Personally, I think it's an attempt at deflecting away from the thousands who are dead because of his stupidity. It's what Trump always has done when things get really bad, he deflects and gives the media something else to look at so that the really bad thing doesn't get as much attention. He's been doing this since he was a candidate. And we fall for it every time.

I hope it doesn't happen this time. This is bad for Atkinson, but it tells nothing we don't already know about Trump. He's corrupt, vindictive and he's every bit as guilty of what he was impeached of. This is proof.

And yet people are dying. This is small potatoes in comparison.
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Post by sportsczy on Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:21 pm

Actually, the President should have this power... the problem is when you elect a president that acts like a 10-year-old.
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Post by McLewis on Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:08 pm

Trump's predecessors used this power correctly. I agree on that much. His bending and twisting of the process has exposed its cracks that should be shored up though or successors (Dem and Republican) will exploit them.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:15 pm

Yeah, because the correct procedure would have been:
the Ukraine scandal events get exposed by the guy responsible to handle whistle blower complaints, the president gets impeached and removed because the evidence is overwhelming, and then he wouldn't be around to use his power to fire the guy who handled the whistle blower complaint.
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Post by sportsczy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:10 pm

Well let's be honest...  if you look at the data, Trump has actually used executive orders, which is the true measure of unilateral action by the President, no more and no less than his predecessors:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders

The mainstream media, whether left or right, are both equally guilty of "false news" and "convenient news".

If you're going to try and impeach a president based on abuse of power... then there better be proof of abuse of power based on a very clear benchmark. That doesn't exist. There is absolutely ZERO case for impeachment. You may agree or disagree with his actions... but that's not what we're talking about here.


Last edited by sportsczy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:12 pm

Executive orders are not a measure of unilateral decision making but of control of congress. Trump had a majority for 2 of the past 3 years so he didn't need to use them. Obama used them because he had no choice (in his view), but he would've preferred to do something more permanent if he had been able to.
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Post by sportsczy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:13 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Executive orders are not a measure of unilateral decision making but of control of congress. Trump had a majority for 2 of the past 3 years so he didn't need to use them. Obama used them because he had no choice (in his view), but he would've preferred to do something more permanent if he had been able to.

Completely disagree.  Congress is supposed to decide on policy.  Presidents bypass congress and issue executive orders because either a) congress can't decide or b) the president doesn't feel congress will decide in his favor.

In the recent past, the presidents veto decisions they don't like unless there's a 2/3 vote by the Senate (there never is) and go straight to executive orders.

And Obama had both congress and senate during his entire first term. Trump only had it for 2 years.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:19 pm

Obama only had congress for 2 of his 8 years. After 2010 it was split and obstructionist.
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Post by CBarca on Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:23 pm

Obama used 146 in his first four years at the height of a global recession. He used 121 (and then an additional 8 during the lame duck period) in his second term.

Trump is at 140 with the rest of 2020 still to go.

George W. Bush was a prolific user in his first four years (most likely due to 9/11) but in his second term used less than Obama and Trump.

I think, at best, you can say that Trump has been as prolific as previous presidents. At worst, you might argue that he's actually been a worse "abuser" given that he's stayed roughly in line with Obama/Bush despite inheriting an historic economy and also two years of an entirely Republican Congress (by a really good margin).

Your numbers don't really help you here with your claim. Unless your argument is Trump vs all 20th century presidents, but I certainly wouldn't make that argument since there is a pretty marked difference between the world today and the world Truman served through
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Post by sportsczy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:31 pm

It absolutely does.  He's right on line with every recent President... no better, no worse.  In fact, most of his executive orders were more for show with very little impact on actual policy while his predecessors signed far more impactful orders.

Also, I don't have to make a case for Trump.  You guys are saying he should be impeached... it's your responsibility to make an overwhelming case for that... and you can't.  That's been the major flaw since the beginning.  It's all based on very scant proof and hearsay.  I dislike Trump... but he hasn't done anything different than his predecessors.  In fact, if I'm honest, both Bush Jr and Obama did far shadier shit in the Middle East & Africa and I saw it with my own two eyes.

This impeachment thing is a bunch of left wing nonsense honestly.

Call out his lack of political acumen and quasi-racist stances... that's fair.  Call out that he's turning his back on historic allies... that's fair.  But this is nonsense.
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Post by CBarca on Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:47 pm

I haven't said shit. I do agree it was right he was impeached. But I don't care about his # of executive orders.

I saw you mention # of orders and I wanted to take a look at your numbers to see if they supported your case. The idea that Trump has been using less EO's didn't seem likely to me, prima facie.

And when I looked at the numbers, I had to refute you because you didn't bother to adjust for # of years in office or offer any context. So I did.

You rail against the media, but your argument reminded me of them. Data without context and without proper analysis of the numbers. And now you've edited your post to suit your new argument, that his EO's are in line with predecessors.You originally said he used "far, far less".

For me personally, EO's are not the reason why I think Trump has been a bad president. I even refused judgement in my last post (I set up a best case/worst case that depended on how one might want to spin the numbers). I just chimed in to refute your argument.
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Post by sportsczy on Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:02 pm

In terms of impactful EOs, it is far far less. I just didn't want to go into a long explanation of what that means. Closing down Guantanamo Bay, raising the minimum wage, etc... those are greatly impactful. Signing an order to build a wall that will never be built, the "Muslim ban" (which was obviously immediately blocked), etc.... those are just PR stunts.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue May 05, 2020 3:18 pm

Finally got around to installing this simple but effective addon

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/president-florida-man/

The internet is a better place now
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Post by Myesyats on Tue May 05, 2020 3:27 pm

Lmao thats actually hilarious
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Post by McLewis on Fri May 08, 2020 5:43 pm



I repeat: Trump is stupid, but Pence is literally evil.
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