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Post by sportsczy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:29 pm

To be fair, this is the first time we've ever had something like this in the United States.  So not having a great initial response is totally understandable.

I actually prefer that the Governors lead the charge with the Federal government acting as a resource and offering guidance.  

Plenty to shit on Trump about but this isn't one of them.  

Only western leader that took it seriously from the start was Merkel.  Macron, Guiseppe Conte, Pedro Sanchez, etc. were either as cavalier, or worse in many cases, than Trump.

IMO, he was looking to control the financial market response AND the government didn't have enough data. You're not going to trust anything from China. It's only when data came in from Europe that the attitude changed.

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Post by Freeza on Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:31 pm

You can’t put blame on a president disbanding the pandemic team for a pandemic getting out of hand.

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:33 pm

I mean this is a guy who's literally tweeting how his corona press conferences have as good TV ratings as the bachelor finale

the guy is a sociopath, he has no concept of empathy or caring about other people detached from his sense of ego

this guy is intolerable, dangerous, unacceptable

It's impossible, futile and frankly wrong to argue or discuss with people who support this guy

that's like arguing with someone about how the world looks like, who's pressing his eyes shut constantly, deliberately, and even gleefully

Such a person is a villain, and an enemy

Honestly, people who support Trump are worse than he himself. He himself can't help it, it is what it is. I can even sense that in this moment, now that things get bad, he might somehow be trying to feel something about it, I think I could see him trying in this last press conference. But ultimately he's not capable. Narcissism, pettiness, greed will always rule his emotional and cognitive household.
But among his supporters, there's people who should know, and feel, better and these are just as responsible for every bit of damage done by this catastrophic administration than Trump himself.
Enablers, patrons, apologists. Profiteers.

So, were he hanging from a lamp post as he would in a less differentiated society, his daughter and son in law should be hanging next to him.


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Post by sportsczy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:35 pm

@Freeza wrote:You can’t put blame on a president disbanding the pandemic team for a pandemic getting out of hand.

That was stupid.  However, it's not like the CDC is shining either.  I'm not sure what the difference was between the Pandemic team and the CDC tbh.  I would have assumed that the CDC would handle pandemics.

Seemed like an unnecessary layer of additional bureaucracy as opposed to anything else.

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Post by CBarca on Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:38 pm

Are we just going to pretend that this country didn't have a fucking woeful lack of testing in the early stages (and still, by all accounts, is struggling with manufacturing enough testing to satisfy the states) due to the incompetence of the federal government?

We gonna accept tweeting this out on march 9?



A national health emergency was issued 4 days later. The US was starting to quickly make progress to 1000 cases (hit it the next day). Italy had almost 10,000 cases and around 500 deaths at the same point.

Even a layman like me was already and other people on this forum started to realize what this was turning into before the last week of February. Endured weeks of Trump calling it the flu, a hoax, "the cases are going down to zero" before any serious action was taken. You might say those are just words, they don't mean much. But they do. A large portion of the country supports Trump...his messaging was out of tune with reality and most people didn't change their behavior until it was far too late due to a lack of any sort of signaling from the federal government.

South Korea had their first case on the same day as the US. I'm not going to pretend to say that they're in the same situation, but they showed what quick, serious, and decisive action can do. The US botched early tests, downplayed science, ignored the situation, prioritized the stock market, and chose not to send a strong message until its too late.

Can you point to me what the federal government did correct?

And don't hit me with bullshit about how other leaders did as badly or worse. Nobody is debating how the UK did. That's a separate conversation. We're talking about what the US did.

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Post by Unique on Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:53 pm

@McLewis wrote:No one is trying to blame the virus on Trump. That's not a thing.

We all know he didn't cause the virus.

What he is being blamed for is his administration's response to it. He's being blamed for repeatedly downplaying the impact this virus was going to have. He's being blamed for not listening to the doctors around him. He's being blamed for pitting the governors of this nation against each other in a bidding war for PPE and other supplies. He's being blamed for not doing enough to make sure hospitals have everything needed to fight this virus on even footing.

In short, he's not being blamed for the virus. He's being blamed for how he's handling the pandemic that has resulted from this virus.
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Post by McLewis on Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:58 pm

Frankly, I'm not going to try and decipher when Trump supporters are joking or not. It's a waste of time. Literally being a Trump supporter in this day and age is, inf itself, a rather sick joke.
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Post by Unique on Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:04 am

@McLewis wrote:Frankly, I'm not going to try and decipher when Trump supporters are joking or not. It's a waste of time. Literally being a Trump supporter in this day and age is, inf itself, a rather sick joke.
not all people have to agree with everything trump does or says. I agree on some of the things says and does but not all of them. But if you just want to kick the can down the road it will always stop at china. If china would have told the truth from the start none of us would be in this shit. Yes trump has fucked up and make mistakes the same as Boris and the same as every government. But china are the ones to blame for all of this.

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Post by sportsczy on Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:09 am

@McLewis wrote:Frankly, I'm not going to try and decipher when Trump supporters are joking or not. It's a waste of time. Literally being a Trump supporter in this day and age is, inf itself, a rather sick joke.

Dude... this is not the way to go.  Agree to disagree.  Don't dismiss and ridicule.  

I honestly don't think Trump is all bad.  He's actually done quite a few very good things.  The bad outweighs the good by a lot though imo.

And that's the point... everyone is entitled to their own opinion and everyone should respect opposing thought as long as no laws are broken.

The reason the US has become so polarized is this dismissive behavior. How are people supposed to compromise and to cause opinion change in this environment?

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Post by CBarca on Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:27 am

Biden is +3 over Trump in WI and the survey was taken March 24-29 AKA occurring during Trump's "rally 'round the flag" effect.

A long way to go until the election, and a lot will change.

But that's a bad sign for Trump

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Post by sportsczy on Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:41 am

@CBarca wrote:Biden is +3 over Trump in WI and the survey was taken March 24-29 AKA occurring during Trump's "rally 'round the flag" effect.

A long way to go until the election, and a lot will change.

But that's a bad sign for Trump

Electoral vote maps are the important indicators... not popular votes directly.  Look at those.

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Post by elitedam on Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:50 am

@sportsczy wrote:
@CBarca wrote:Biden is +3 over Trump in WI and the survey was taken March 24-29 AKA occurring during Trump's "rally 'round the flag" effect.

A long way to go until the election, and a lot will change.

But that's a bad sign for Trump

Electoral vote maps are the important indicators... not popular votes directly.  Look at those.


That's what he did. He's looking at Wisconsin polling data.
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Post by Myesyats on Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:09 pm

Did Trump really say US should treat Germany as enemies due to them being adversaries in WWII? so progressive!
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:19 pm

@McLewis wrote:So Trump has treated the Governor of my state like absolute shit because she won't kiss his ass.

We were warned of this during the Impeachment hearings:



The way he's treating governors (generally Democrat governors) is exactly why he was impeached.


He laughed Baker off, who is a Republican (albeit many accuse him of being a RINO), when he asked for the feds not to outbid the states. He's just a POS, don't think it comes down to party.

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Post by Freeza on Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:22 pm

@sportsczy wrote:
@McLewis wrote:Frankly, I'm not going to try and decipher when Trump supporters are joking or not. It's a waste of time. Literally being a Trump supporter in this day and age is, inf itself, a rather sick joke.

Dude... this is not the way to go.  Agree to disagree.  Don't dismiss and ridicule.  

I honestly don't think Trump is all bad.  He's actually done quite a few very good things.  The bad outweighs the good by a lot though imo.

And that's the point... everyone is entitled to their own opinion and everyone should respect opposing thought as long as no laws are broken.

The reason the US has become so polarized is this dismissive behavior. How are people supposed to compromise and to cause opinion change in this environment?


This dude out here making excuses for Trump like he’s some mid-tier French midfielder

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:29 pm

TBF to Trump, the crisis in NYC has far more to do with De Blasio's incompetence than Trump's

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/01/new-york-mayor-bill-de-blasios-repeated-comments-downplaying-coronavirus/

The man was downplaying it and encouraging people to be in crowds even in mid-march...

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Post by Pedram on Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:48 pm

Frankly if you have second thought about picking between Trump and Biden you need to get your head checked out.

Look I wanted Bernie to win, i don't have any faith in Biden himself but at least he'll pick a competent cabinet. if you vote for Trump you're also voting for the band of malicious crooks he's going to put in his next administration.
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Post by McLewis on Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:52 pm

@Unique wrote:
@McLewis wrote:Frankly, I'm not going to try and decipher when Trump supporters are joking or not. It's a waste of time. Literally being a Trump supporter in this day and age is, inf itself, a rather sick joke.
not all people have to agree with everything trump does or says. I agree on some of the things says and does but not all of them. But if you just want to kick the can down the road it will always stop at china. If china would have told the truth from the start none of us would be in this shit. Yes trump has fucked up and make mistakes the same as Boris and the same as every government. But china are the ones to blame for all of this.

Sorry, but no. A competent administration would've known that China would not be honest about this virus and would've at least considered preparing for a potential spread on top of insisting that international doctors be allowed into China to discern how bad this really is. A competent administration would've know how to work the existing diplomatic channels to pressure China into allowing this. Because Trump has cozied up to Xi and "trusts" him, he (and therefore we) got duped and now paying for it in lives. Until Trump, we have always seen China as a frenemy at best. There is a reason for that: They are authoritarian with state-controlled news. What gets reported out of those agencies can't be trusted. Trump doesn't get a pass for ignoring that reason.

I do not buy this "no one could've been prepared for this" argument. Singapore and South Korea showed us the way and we ignored them. Their loss of life has been a drop in the bucket compared to the 1000 people that just died yesterday here.

@sportsczy wrote:
@McLewis wrote:Frankly, I'm not going to try and decipher when Trump supporters are joking or not. It's a waste of time. Literally being a Trump supporter in this day and age is, inf itself, a rather sick joke.

Dude... this is not the way to go.  Agree to disagree.  Don't dismiss and ridicule.  

I honestly don't think Trump is all bad.  He's actually done quite a few very good things.  The bad outweighs the good by a lot though imo.

And that's the point... everyone is entitled to their own opinion and everyone should respect opposing thought as long as no laws are broken.

The reason the US has become so polarized is this dismissive behavior.  How are people supposed to compromise and to cause opinion change in this environment?
I have not come to my current stance lightly. I have spent 4 years trying to understand Trump supporters and their worldview. I did this almost exactly after the election. You can check my post history. My posts at that time were very conciliatory and were coming from a place of genuine attempts to understand them. I have routinely debated them across social media (Twitter primarily). I have engaged with them on Reddit's r/AskaTrumpsupport subreddit to understand their viewpoints and try and understand why they keep digging in for him when everything we know about him says they should be doing the opposite. Now? I've understood as much as I care to. The conclusion I've come to is that they are callous and selfish at worst and extremely gullible at best. Either way, the cognitive dissonance, the gaslighting from right-wing sources like Fox News and Breitbart, and overall paranoia have made them dangerously misinformed and this has been the life blood to Trump, who has continued to make mistake after mistake after mistake while thinking exactly the opposite. Until now, the loss of life had been negligible. Now? thousands are dying due his incompetence. Hundreds of thousands are expected to die because of it. His supporters are the reason the GOP Senate (who clearly don't like him) won't stand up to him. This has only bolstered his already massive ego. Something has to give and for me, it has. I've had enough of trying to understand these people. I know all I need to know about them. They do not care about anyone, but those who fit inside of their very narrow ideological worldview.

They have lost the benefit of the doubt with me. I refuse to respect anyone who willingly roots for a man who is actively presiding over a preventable loss of life on a scale we've never seen before in this country. I just can't do it. You know I'm normally a rather objective guy, but on this I just won't bend.
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Post by sportsczy on Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:34 pm

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree.  Who Biden picks for his VP will decide things for me because he's basically got Alzheimer's at this point...  healthy people don't speak the way he does.

If he makes a shit choice, then it's a coin toss for me.

Btw, if you're using CNN as your source of info... they're as bad as Fox News now.  Completely inaccurate and heavily biased.

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Post by McLewis on Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:58 pm

My media sources vary significantly. As a rule, I take what hear on CNN and MSNBC with a grain of salt. I prefer more objective sources like The AP, Reuters, etc.

We'll need to agree to disagree, as you said.


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Post by McLewis on Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:00 pm



This is what happens when we have governors listening to Trump, Rush Limbaugh and other right wing morons who have been downplaying this virus.

Many people are going to succumb to this virus because of Kemp's incompetence.

This puts his cheating to win the governorship over Stacey Abrams in stark perspective.
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Post by Unique on Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:01 pm

@McLewis wrote:
@Unique wrote:
@McLewis wrote:Frankly, I'm not going to try and decipher when Trump supporters are joking or not. It's a waste of time. Literally being a Trump supporter in this day and age is, inf itself, a rather sick joke.
not all people have to agree with everything trump does or says. I agree on some of the things says and does but not all of them. But if you just want to kick the can down the road it will always stop at china. If china would have told the truth from the start none of us would be in this shit. Yes trump has fucked up and make mistakes the same as Boris and the same as every government. But china are the ones to blame for all of this.

Sorry, but no. A competent administration would've known that China would not be honest about this virus and would've at least considered preparing for a potential spread on top of insisting that international doctors be allowed into China to discern how bad this really is. A competent administration would've know how to work the existing diplomatic channels to pressure China into allowing this. Because Trump has cozied up to Xi and "trusts" him, he (and therefore we) got duped and now paying for it in lives. Until Trump, we have always seen China as a frenemy at best. There is a reason for that: They are authoritarian with state-controlled news. What gets reported out of those agencies can't be trusted. Trump doesn't get a pass for ignoring that reason.

I do not buy this "no one could've been prepared for this" argument. Singapore and South Korea showed us the way and we ignored them. Their loss of life has been a drop in the bucket compared to the 1000 people that just died yesterday here.

@sportsczy wrote:
@McLewis wrote:Frankly, I'm not going to try and decipher when Trump supporters are joking or not. It's a waste of time. Literally being a Trump supporter in this day and age is, inf itself, a rather sick joke.

Dude... this is not the way to go.  Agree to disagree.  Don't dismiss and ridicule.  

I honestly don't think Trump is all bad.  He's actually done quite a few very good things.  The bad outweighs the good by a lot though imo.

And that's the point... everyone is entitled to their own opinion and everyone should respect opposing thought as long as no laws are broken.

The reason the US has become so polarized is this dismissive behavior.  How are people supposed to compromise and to cause opinion change in this environment?
I have not come to my current stance lightly. I have spent 4 years trying to understand Trump supporters and their worldview. I did this almost exactly after the election. You can check my post history. My posts at that time were very conciliatory and were coming from a place of genuine attempts to understand them. I have routinely debated them across social media (Twitter primarily). I have engaged with them on Reddit's r/AskaTrumpsupport subreddit to understand their viewpoints and try and understand why they keep digging in for him when everything we know about him says they should be doing the opposite.  Now? I've understood as much as I care to. The conclusion I've come to is that they are callous and selfish at worst and extremely gullible at best. Either way, the cognitive dissonance, the gaslighting from right-wing sources like Fox News and Breitbart, and overall paranoia have made them dangerously misinformed and this has been the life blood to Trump, who has continued to make mistake after mistake after mistake while thinking exactly the opposite. Until now, the loss of life had been negligible. Now? thousands are dying due his incompetence. Hundreds of thousands are expected to die because of it. His supporters are the reason the GOP Senate (who clearly don't like him) won't stand up to him. This has only bolstered his already massive ego. Something has to give and for me, it has. I've had enough of trying to understand these people. I know all I need to know about them. They do not care about anyone, but those who fit inside of their very narrow ideological worldview.

They have lost the benefit of the doubt with me. I refuse to respect anyone who willingly roots for a man who is actively presiding over a preventable loss of life on a scale we've never seen before in this country. I just can't do it. You know I'm normally a rather objective guy, but on this I just won't bend.
south korea showed us the way because they had loads of stuff left over from the last time china started one of these viruses so they had everything in place to fight this. now if trump would have spent billions and billions of dollars to get ready for something like this a year ago you would have been on here talking about how he is just wasting money on something that may never happen and how he is racist to china for thinking they may spread a virus. you do love a bit of hindsite mate.

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Post by Unique on Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:06 pm

@McLewis wrote:

This is what happens when we have governors listening to Trump, Rush Limbaugh and other right wing morons who have been downplaying this virus.

Many people are going to succumb to this virus because of Kemp's incompetence.

This puts his cheating to win the governorship over Stacey Abrams in stark perspective.
rofl rofl rofl

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Post by Unique on Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:07 pm

this thread should be moved to the joke section. Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Post by sportsczy on Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:25 pm

Thank god Stacey Abrams didn't win in Georgia...  she is absolutely not suited for the job.  In fact, if she becomes Biden's VP choice, that's the end for him.

Kamala Harris should be the VP choice.  I would support her in a heartbeat.

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Post by El Gunner on Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:32 pm

so Bernie isn't gunna win?

The world is a complete joke

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