The Racism Thread

+35
Duronto-Roddur
Babun
S
Arquitecto
M99
sportsczy
Blue
Freeza
Pedram
Lex
Kick
Robespierre
Doc
Warrior
RealGunner
Zagadka
FennecFox7
Clutch
VivaStPauli
CBarca
Hapless_Hans
rincon
Adit
Nishankly
Vibe
Young Kaz
Myesyats
Thimmy
futbol_bill
BarrileteCosmico
futbol
The Demon of Carthage
El Gunner
Unique
McLewis
39 posters

Page 37 of 40 Previous  1 ... 20 ... 36, 37, 38, 39, 40  Next

Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri 24 Jul 2020 - 15:15

Babun wrote:
El Gunner wrote:i didn't even mention communism (yet), come on man Laughing :facepalm:

but how is that possible if media houses are just another capitalist institution?

The way England, Germany or Italy do it: we pay monthly fee for a neutral news network which isn't dependant on capitalism as you say. BBC, RAI, ARD and ZDF for example or find another solution. There's no one perfect solution.


Imagine putting Italian media as an example for the world to follow Laughing

Even the once revered BBC has come under heavy scrutiny for obviously biased reporting during the last election

The solution is not state-run anything but enforcement of anti-trust laws that ensure no group gets too much influence and there is a wide variety of interests represented. We shouldn't have a situation where 4 billionaires own all the TV, radio and newspaper stations.

BarrileteCosmico
Admin
Admin

Posts : 28271
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by Warrior Fri 24 Jul 2020 - 15:59

I'd be satisfied to get rid of these professional opinion givers who are presented as "journalists"
Warrior
Warrior
FORZA JUVE

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 9478
Join date : 2016-05-25

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by Babun Fri 24 Jul 2020 - 17:32

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Babun wrote:
El Gunner wrote:i didn't even mention communism (yet), come on man Laughing :facepalm:

but how is that possible if media houses are just another capitalist institution?

The way England, Germany or Italy do it: we pay monthly fee for a neutral news network which isn't dependant on capitalism as you say. BBC, RAI, ARD and ZDF for example or find another solution. There's no one perfect solution.


Imagine putting Italian media as an example for the world to follow Laughing

Even the once revered BBC has come under heavy scrutiny for obviously biased reporting during the last election
Still better than nothing, also I'm open for other solutions.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:The solution is not state-run anything but enforcement of anti-trust laws that ensure no group gets too much influence and there is a wide variety of interests represented. We shouldn't have a situation where 4 billionaires own all the TV, radio and newspaper stations.
Those TV stations aren't state-run. They've got a headroom for venturing bit left or right but they cannot indulge themselves into outright out of context propaganda like Fox News or CNN do. There're regulating laws, any party can accuse them of taking party.
Enforcement of anti-trust laws would need a gigantic majourity. Politics are helped by the media and vice versa. They won't say goodby to their prfered influencing tool of their own.
Hapless_Hans wrote:our state-run media are not 'neutral'

Not neutral, but as neutral as one can get given the current situation. There's BVG (Bundesverfassungsgericht = Federal Constitutional Court) where any party can accuse the Rundfunk of not fullfilling or wrongdoing their Rundfunkauftrag (informing the public about the matters in the country and the world).
Babun
Babun
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 7221
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by CBarca Fri 24 Jul 2020 - 17:54

I mean, the US isn't devoid of those institutions. We have NPR and PBS Newshour, both of which are pretty widely listened to/viewed.

They just aren't the "premier" network, so to speak. I haven't compared their numbers to CNN or Fox News.

Also the vast majority of national news that makes it into local newspapers (for people who still buy/read local newspapers, although I'd assume it's the same thing online) are written and distributed by the Associated Press and Reuters, both of which use a clear, fact based reporting method.
CBarca
CBarca
NEVER a Mod

Club Supported : Athletic Bilbao
Posts : 20382
Join date : 2011-06-17
Age : 27

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by VivaStPauli Fri 24 Jul 2020 - 23:26

Hapless_Hans wrote:our state-run media are not 'neutral'


True, but on the other hand they sure as shit are a hell of a lot more critical of our government than the private media;
ARD/ZDF are way more likely to rip the Kanzleramt a new one than the likes of Pro7.
VivaStPauli
VivaStPauli
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : FC St. Pauli
Posts : 9002
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 39

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by Robespierre Sat 25 Jul 2020 - 0:36

Italian networks are a clear example of comminstion between politics and information , even before Berlusconi that has increased the problem
there is little to add about a whole network that is property of Berlusconi but it's enough to say that Rai , the national public broadcasting , has three channels because of a political subdivision among the main 3 Italian political parties in  the decades from 50s to 80s. Rai 1 was the channel of Democrazia Cristiana (the Italian CDU, the party to have led Italy for 40 years uninterruptedly). After it, Rai 2 has been created for giving a channel to Italian Socialist Party. At the end Rai 3 as channel for Italian Communist Party.

This political tripartite division has ended in 1992 (due to the end of those parties), the Italian political pluralism has moved incredibly to right in last decade (the only Western country without a socialist strenght,but it seems just a challenge  between rightist and far right forces ) and results are dramatic.

Rai 2 , the old " Socialist " channel  , has a television news ( TG2) markedly  sovranist now.
Really a bad thing to watch it ,basically the paradise of sovereign "counter-information", I remember when they dedicated the whole saturday night to interview a Putin's ideologist twho talked about  Putin's messianic role. Laughing Characters who hey would have been relegated to some niche geopolitical blogs, especially if hyper-ideologized and connected to the populist right wave  from half of Europe .. but now you come across in the Italian National network
Of course everyting comes from    the  appointment of the management , conditioned by politics, and the director of Rai 2 is a Salvini's dolphin.

And essentially the real problem is the "  infra-Racism ' .
Sovranist medias in Western democracies can't vehicole a direct racist message, but they can vehicole it on a disjointed way.
We observe the presence of theories, the spread of prejudices and more xenophobic opinions that are not strictly racist, but there is  a recurring connection between immigration and deviance, criminal tendencies as well as a propensity for producing stereotypes.
The media generates that hostility under form of latent racism that cause hostility toward certain ethnic groups and it's functional to the success of some political parties.
In Italy it's glaring.

Ah same for most number of talk shows based on populism. The only nice exception is La7 ( no Rai , no Mediaset, exactly a third polo) there's a programme called Propaganda Live that is the the opposite of what was said , but it's a niche.
Robespierre
Robespierre
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Inter Milan
Posts : 17165
Join date : 2013-11-22
Age : 34

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by Myesyats Sat 25 Jul 2020 - 21:04

on topic: Hungarian journalists resign en masse after claims of political interference

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/24/hungarian-journalists-resign-en-masse-after-claims-of-political-interference

"Free country, free media" protests ensued:

The Racism Thread - Page 37 4ce28cadb39bcd58ee8fc166ecc6e610

Myesyats
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : RO Blank
Posts : 19078
Join date : 2015-05-03
Age : 95

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun 26 Jul 2020 - 1:59

hmmm what's the relationship with racism? were they intervened to make xenophobic statements?
BarrileteCosmico
BarrileteCosmico
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Barcelona
Posts : 28271
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 33

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by Myesyats Sun 26 Jul 2020 - 11:30

I meant on topic with previous posts, not the thread lmao

this thread basically turned into media neutrality

Myesyats
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : RO Blank
Posts : 19078
Join date : 2015-05-03
Age : 95

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by McLewis Mon 27 Jul 2020 - 1:51



For those of you unaware of the 1619 Project, it's an ambitious undertaking to trace America's founding not from 1776, as is conventionally accepted, but from 1619, the year the first African slaves arrived on our shores. It has been derided by right-wing media as revisionist, hateful rhetoric. I read and listened to it. Historically, it's quite accurate.

For anyone that wants to read it, here's the link - The 1619 Project - The New York Times

Oh and Tom Cotton is the descendant of a Confederate general and multiple generations of slaveowners. His take on this is not as controversial as it seems when viewed from that lens.
McLewis
McLewis
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Roma
Posts : 13334
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 35

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by Hapless_Hans Mon 27 Jul 2020 - 2:03

That's also the guy whom the NYT had write an op-ed about having the army come in and suppress lawful demonstrations which led to a rebellion among their staff against the opinion editor

and then he's called Cotton

you could not make it up

or rather, if you made it up you would be a pretty poor and rather brazen writer
Hapless_Hans
Hapless_Hans
Forum Legend
Forum Legend

Club Supported : Lyon
Posts : 34047
Join date : 2013-09-17

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by El Gunner Mon 27 Jul 2020 - 2:46

oh yea i heard about the 1619 thing recently, bookmarked that link.
El Gunner
El Gunner
An Oakland City Warrior

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 22562
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 27

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by Myesyats Mon 27 Jul 2020 - 6:05

In the original NYT article there'd been a claim that preserving slavery was the colonists' one primary reason to fight the revolution which is simply inaccurate. It was edited later.

Myesyats
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : RO Blank
Posts : 19078
Join date : 2015-05-03
Age : 95

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by Pedram Mon 27 Jul 2020 - 11:41

Hapless_Hans wrote:That's also the guy whom the NYT had write an op-ed about having the army come in and suppress lawful demonstrations which led to a rebellion among their staff against the opinion editor

and then he's called Cotton

you could not make it up

or rather, if you made it up you would be a pretty poor and rather brazen writer


Tom Cotton is a genocidal maniac, he's the guy who said a war with Iran would be "easy".



Terrifying stuff, if this guy is the future of the Republican party we're all fucked.
Pedram
Pedram
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 7061
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 32

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by CBarca Mon 27 Jul 2020 - 18:09

Myesyats wrote:In the original NYT article there'd been a claim that preserving slavery was the colonists' one primary reason to fight the revolution which is simply inaccurate. It was edited later.


I believe Nikole Hannah-Jones has stated that that original premise was going a bit far and they edited it back.

It's important to understand, of course, that history is shaped by the narrative of the person writing and interpreting history. That's why we have so many differing opinions on historical events and what those historical events now mean today. The same reason why to some, Confederate statues are a stain on our current existence, while to others, they are a remembrance of history (and some might argue that they don't remember a good history, while others worship because they are white supremacists).

It's important to have dialogue and to review and edit if your findings are out of tune with the general consensus.

That particular claim, to me, is dubious if it is made on the grounds that preserving slavery was the primary cause for revolution. Quite frankly, there were many reasons for the revolution, and many in the North were not particularly enthusiastic about slavery, even if they didn't believe in equality for African-Americans. With that being said, it certainly was likely a contributing factor (although I haven't done the research myself).

With that being said, we should note a couple things:

1) Nikole Hannah-Jones and the NYT are embarking on a fairly extensive re-imagining of American history through the lens of slavery. They're offering a different perspective.

2) That means that sometimes the claims made might be subject to historical question, but that's for historians and NYT writers to argue about and ultimately decide (or disagree on).

But... 3) That doesn't mean that the overall basis is of questionable integrity, and that it's arguments or ideas should be discarded.

To me, the best way to view the 1619 project is in conjunction with other historical texts as well. You're not going to get the full picture from the 1619 project because it has a fairly narrow focus, but you'll get a picture that's often ignored. That's valuable. I should also mention that the 1619 project holds its own historically (but not without debate).

Finally, I should mention that this is more of my opinion on the 1619 project as a whole than any particular response to you, Myesyats, as it's unclear if you're trying to argue anything or just stating something you've heard.


Last edited by CBarca on Tue 28 Jul 2020 - 0:02; edited 1 time in total
CBarca
CBarca
NEVER a Mod

Club Supported : Athletic Bilbao
Posts : 20382
Join date : 2011-06-17
Age : 27

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by Myesyats Mon 27 Jul 2020 - 23:48

I take issue with 3 central points of the project.

1. The revolution's main idea/goal was to preserve slavery - false.
2. Slavery is a capitalist enterprise - vastly exaggarated, vague assumption.
3. The American economy before the Civil War was mainly based on plantation slavery - false. New York alone had more capital circulating in its banks than the ENTIRE plantation South, it is well documented.

Myesyats
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : RO Blank
Posts : 19078
Join date : 2015-05-03
Age : 95

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by McLewis Mon 27 Jul 2020 - 23:55

Myesyats wrote:I take issue with 3 central points of the project.

1. The revolution's main idea/goal was to preserve slavery - false.
2. Slavery is a capitalist enterprise - vastly exaggarated, vague assumption.
3. The American economy before the Civil War was mainly based on plantation slavery - false. New York alone had more capital circulating in its banks than the ENTIRE plantation South, it is well documented.


What are your supporting sources behind 2 and 3?
McLewis
McLewis
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Roma
Posts : 13334
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 35

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by VivaStPauli Mon 27 Jul 2020 - 23:55

Myesyats wrote:2. Slavery is a capitalist enterprise - vastly exaggarated, vague assumption.


Do you need some hot coco? Because it is clearly your bed time, son.
VivaStPauli
VivaStPauli
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : FC St. Pauli
Posts : 9002
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 39

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by Warrior Tue 28 Jul 2020 - 0:09

Outside of capitalism, they give other names

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Fa4cbf10
Warrior
Warrior
FORZA JUVE

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 9478
Join date : 2016-05-25

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by Myesyats Tue 28 Jul 2020 - 13:46

McLewis wrote:
Myesyats wrote:I take issue with 3 central points of the project.

1. The revolution's main idea/goal was to preserve slavery - false.
2. Slavery is a capitalist enterprise - vastly exaggarated, vague assumption.
3. The American economy before the Civil War was mainly based on plantation slavery - false. New York alone had more capital circulating in its banks than the ENTIRE plantation South, it is well documented.


What are your supporting sources behind 2 and 3?

2. The argument is made is that plantation slavery was a capitalistic enterprise because book-keeping was used as well as other accounting practices. These methods date way further back and weren't unique to the American south or slavery. Slaveholders used compulsion and force to produce results - is this a capitalist trait? Again, very misguided assumption in my opinion and vague enough that could fit anywhere.

3. "Furthermore, in 1861 as today, New York banks dominated finance in all of the United States: some $92 million of the country’s $126 million in total deposits rested in the vaults of Manhattan banks. The support of the New York bankers was therefore crucial to the success of the Union cause."

Plantation slavery was surely a source of great wealh that produced raw materials which paved the way to a certain degree for industrialization, however, the evidence for slavery being the driving factor behind industrialisation is rather weak and the argument that it was the key to ALL economic prosperity is certainly one that does not hold up.

Johnston and Williamson's work on estimating US GDP (the measure of how much an economy is worth) back to 1790 shows that an estimated 86% of all US economic growth as measured by GDP took place post-1945. The abolition of slavery in the antebellum South correlates closely with a net reduction of real-term GDP of just 4.6% according to their work; the US economy returns to pre-abolition levels of overall prosperity on a per capita (per person) basis by 1872, and net growth is achieved as early as 1868. Whilst a 5% retraction in GDP in a single year is a harsh recession for any economy, it is nothing compared to the Great Depression; between 1930 and 1933, the US economy loses more than 25% of its 1929 GDP.

You can see clearly that the US economy, which was diverse, has recovered swiftly after the abolition of slavery.


Another note: a lot of slavery was "false" wealth. Meaning, apart from the labor, slaves themselves were part of the wealth along with the slaves' children. But this wealth materializes only when the slave is sold so generally it is tied up. When all the slaves were freed overnight, this wealth evaporated into the abyss.

Myesyats
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : RO Blank
Posts : 19078
Join date : 2015-05-03
Age : 95

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by Babun Tue 28 Jul 2020 - 15:37

In the vague version, every economy type has got some elements of capitalism at some point. According to the strict definition, there's a private entity with capital which lets other people work for a wage for it to increase its own value.
Wage is the key point. Slaves were the capital themselves, they weren't rewarded for good or bad work. Violence and threats were the stimulus behind productivity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
So no, slavery or feudalism isn't a system based on capitalism.
Babun
Babun
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 7221
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by El Gunner Tue 28 Jul 2020 - 21:46

benefiting/capitalising on the exploits of others' labour = capitalism
El Gunner
El Gunner
An Oakland City Warrior

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 22562
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 27

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by Myesyats Tue 28 Jul 2020 - 22:46

El Gunner wrote:benefiting/capitalising on the exploits of others' labour = capitalism

What about capitalist states with broad welfare systems. Do you denounce that as well?

Myesyats
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : RO Blank
Posts : 19078
Join date : 2015-05-03
Age : 95

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by Art Morte Wed 29 Jul 2020 - 14:04

El Gunner wrote:benefiting/capitalising on the exploits of others' labour = capitalism


If everyone was self-employed what would you call that, then?
Art Morte
Art Morte
Forum legendest

Club Supported : Liverpool
Posts : 18314
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 38

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by McLewis Wed 29 Jul 2020 - 15:28

Myesyats wrote:
McLewis wrote:
Myesyats wrote:I take issue with 3 central points of the project.

1. The revolution's main idea/goal was to preserve slavery - false.
2. Slavery is a capitalist enterprise - vastly exaggarated, vague assumption.
3. The American economy before the Civil War was mainly based on plantation slavery - false. New York alone had more capital circulating in its banks than the ENTIRE plantation South, it is well documented.


What are your supporting sources behind 2 and 3?

2. The argument is made is that plantation slavery was a capitalistic enterprise because book-keeping was used as well as other accounting practices. These methods date way further back and weren't unique to the American south or slavery. Slaveholders used compulsion and force to produce results - is this a capitalist trait? Again, very misguided assumption in my opinion and vague enough that could fit anywhere.

Arguably, yes it is. Slave plantations were results-oriented organizations. Overseers were charged with ensuring the slaves produced the desirable results for the masters, at any cost. This is why conditions were so brutal. This is why slaves were sometimes beaten to within an inch of their lives (in some cases, to death) for not making the given quotas of whatever they were harvesting, be it sugar cane, cotton or something else. Families were broken up to keep the machine purring without pause as well. Today's corporations are also results-oriented organizations. They are on different ends of the same spectrum of capitalism. Their means are much less violent than plantations, but no less results-focused. If someone doesn't meet their goals, they are fired and replaced with someone who will. That is the core of capitalism to me: results above all else in pursuit of profit and wealth. That they've added elements such as HR departments, government and industry oversight doesn't really take away from that singular core objective. There is a reason why American workers (especially low-income BIPOC workers) still don't have maternity leave or good child care options even to this day. Because we live in a results-focused, profit-focused, capitalist society.

3. "Furthermore, in 1861 as today, New York banks dominated finance in all of the United States: some $92 million of the country’s $126 million in total deposits rested in the vaults of Manhattan banks. The support of the New York bankers was therefore crucial to the success of the Union cause."

Plantation slavery was surely a source of great wealth that produced raw materials which paved the way to a certain degree for industrialization, however, the evidence for slavery being the driving factor behind industrialisation is rather weak and the argument that it was the key to ALL economic prosperity is certainly one that does not hold up.

Johnston and Williamson's work on estimating US GDP (the measure of how much an economy is worth) back to 1790 shows that an estimated 86% of all US economic growth as measured by GDP took place post-1945. The abolition of slavery in the antebellum South correlates closely with a net reduction of real-term GDP of just 4.6% according to their work; the US economy returns to pre-abolition levels of overall prosperity on a per capita (per person) basis by 1872, and net growth is achieved as early as 1868. Whilst a 5% retraction in GDP in a single year is a harsh recession for any economy, it is nothing compared to the Great Depression; between 1930 and 1933, the US economy loses more than 25% of its 1929 GDP.

You can see clearly that the US economy, which was diverse, has recovered swiftly after the abolition of slavery.

If anything, this is a good reason for not having needed slavery at all. If the Industrialization of the country was going to take place regardless of slavery or not, then it's entirely feasible that the country could've been founded without slavery as its foundation. That indicates it was NOT a necessary evil. It was an unnecessary evil.

Another note: a lot of slavery was "false" wealth. Meaning, apart from the labor, slaves themselves were part of the wealth along with the slaves' children. But this wealth materializes only when the slave is sold so generally it is tied up. When all the slaves were freed overnight, this wealth evaporated into the abyss.


By false wealth, do you mean "liquidity"? As in the same as "assets" like buildings, cars, etc? I mean sure you can see it that way, but the fruit of the slaves labor is what produced the wealth of the plantations. The masters were not wealthy singularly because of the slaves, but more directly because of their labor. Selling a slave fetched them less of a profit than selling the fruit of their labors, even if it still made them wealthy.

Zooming out though, I'm not sure what your point was with this post. Can you provide a summation what you're trying to say about American chattel slavery here? I do not want to make assumptions.
McLewis
McLewis
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Roma
Posts : 13334
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 35

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by El Gunner Wed 29 Jul 2020 - 15:52

Myesyats wrote:
El Gunner wrote:benefiting/capitalising on the exploits of others' labour = capitalism

What about capitalist states with broad welfare systems. Do you denounce that as well?

althougth not ideal, in our current world, this seems to be a good approach for societies. What's the best examples currently? Scandinavian countries, Germany, Canada?

As long as the jobs are fulfilling, not exploitative and the money/labour is going back into the community. Which unfortunately for the large part of the world it doesn't.
El Gunner
El Gunner
An Oakland City Warrior

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 22562
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 27

Back to top Go down

The Racism Thread - Page 37 Empty Re: The Racism Thread

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 37 of 40 Previous  1 ... 20 ... 36, 37, 38, 39, 40  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum