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Post by McLewis on Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:52 pm

Thanks for posting that M99.

I am curious as to whether @danyjr's thoughts have changed given the man's account of what happened. He believes those folks tried to lynch him. The people who stepped in to defend him believe it too. So do I.

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Post by Babun on Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:04 pm

There're 4 suspicious points:
1. The video doesn't show how it started. A story has always got three sides, his perspective, their perspective and the actual truth. All the videos are heavily edited.
2. The man claims, his hair was pulled, he was man handled etc. I see in the video drunk people who aren't trying to manhandle him like a proper aggressive mob. Sorry but looks like a half arsed attempt to pin him against the tree, there is no rope, hitting or strangulation one would expect.
3. He wasn't alone from the very start. Why are the filming people aren't helping him? (supposedly 3 people) I see no guns or weapons. Those aren't passerbys, they were with him from the start according to his version of the story. The girl's behaviour doesn't add up. The footage alone doesn't explain why she behaves the way she does.
4. He is former BLM leader of the Bloomington chapter.

The drunkards are a bunch of racist assholes though, that much is clear.

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Post by Myesyats on Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:00 pm

His account of the story seems to be way more drastic than what video evidence would suggest, not that it changes the fact that those rednecks are racist pigs.

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Post by CBarca on Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:33 pm

If there are accounts that corroborate a claim to "get the rope", it's an obvious attempted lynching.

Either way it's assault regardless.

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Post by CBarca on Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:34 pm

@LeVersacci wrote:You’re never safe in that country as a minority. Especially as a black person.

Thankfully more and more are strapping up these days.

Can’t let yourself get killed by these worthless trailer trash people.


More guns = more deaths.

Predictably most likely BIPOC folk

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Post by VivaStPauli on Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:44 pm

Also, let's be honest, being mobbed is fucking scary, no matter if what is coming is a beating or a lynching. I wouldn't really expect anyone facing superior numbers in a menacing way to have an objective accounting of what exactly was about to happen.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:49 am

In the news:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-08/amazon-becomes-latest-retailer-to-drop-redskins-merchandise

Amazon and other retailers are pushing the Washington Redskins to change their name, and it seems like this time they might follow through

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29428606/stephen-jackson-says-eagles-desean-jackson-speaking-truth-controversial-posts

DeSean Jackson made a post with a (fake) Hitler quote about Jews controlling everything, and Stephen Jackson is now under fire for saying that DeSean Jackson (and fake Hitler) were "speaking the Truth". Stephen Jackson was considered an important voice in favor of BLM before this. A number of other important athletes also liked the original tweet.

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Post by LeVersacci on Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:47 am

@CBarca wrote:
@LeVersacci wrote:You’re never safe in that country as a minority. Especially as a black person.

Thankfully more and more are strapping up these days.

Can’t let yourself get killed by these worthless trailer trash people.


More guns = more deaths.

Predictably most likely BIPOC folk
Well no shit it’ll lead to more deaths. That’s not going to excuse more of them from carrying straps. Thankfully more and more won’t allow themselves to get beaten/hanged/shot by rednecks like the one in the video, which didn’t happen due to help from random civilians coming to the rescue.

Their government doesn’t have their back. The cops doesn’t. Racist civilians will always target them.

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Post by Warrior on Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:18 am

BC the Redskins will 100% change their name, in fact it's surprising it was not done before. Probably the Indians too. The latter have already changed their logo, but it seems a proper rebranding is incoming. To me this falls in the "why not" category

But then Chiefs, Braves or even the beautiful Blackhawks ?? that's an extreme stance, big doubts it will happen
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Post by Myesyats on Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:50 am

soon it will be illegal to say "blacklist" and "black sheep of the family" Laughing

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Post by El Gunner on Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:03 am

i don't see any problem in that, language is fluid and abstract and it is always evolving.

i watched Lupe Fiasco's IG live the other day and he had an interesting discussion with a scholar in which they discussed how "black" and "white" aren't just merely colours of skin when it comes to race, but they are "frequencies" too - i.e. frequencies/levels of thought that promote and oppress certain ideals/objectives/mindsets. And i believe that is very true. We all know Europeans used their "Whiteness" as a model of suppressing everything "other", and what "Black consciousness" is trying to do is rid the world of those mental shackles, all the segregation and rigid institutionalisation.

Of course, anyone who has before read and interrogated a hint of Fanon, Steve Biko, etc, and assessed the activism of Malcolm X and MLK will know understand this insight.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:46 am

@Warrior wrote:BC the Redskins will 100% change their name, in fact it's surprising it was not done before. Probably the Indians too. The latter have already changed their logo, but it seems a proper rebranding is incoming. To me this falls in the "why not" category

But then Chiefs, Braves or even the beautiful Blackhawks ?? that's an extreme stance, big doubts it will happen

As I understand it, most native americans are not actually offended by this, but it seems like the name has become too non-pc for this day and age. Fwiw it doesn't exactly sit right with me either to use a culture as a mascot, but I don't see why my opinion should matter if the people actually affected don't care.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

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Post by Myesyats on Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:14 pm

@El Gunner wrote:i don't see any problem in that, language is fluid and abstract and it is always evolving.

i watched Lupe Fiasco's IG live the other day and he had an interesting discussion with a scholar in which they discussed how "black" and "white" aren't just merely colours of skin when it comes to race, but they are "frequencies" too - i.e. frequencies/levels of thought that promote and oppress certain ideals/objectives/mindsets. And i believe that is very true. We all know Europeans used their "Whiteness" as a model of suppressing everything "other", and what "Black consciousness" is trying to do is rid the world of those mental shackles, all the segregation and rigid institutionalisation.

Of course, anyone who has before read and interrogated a hint of Fanon, Steve Biko, etc, and assessed the activism of Malcolm X and MLK will know understand this insight.

blame the brown hebrews/israelites who differentiated between good and evil as (light)white and (darkness)black

The Book of Isaiah 45:7 reads,
“I form light, and create darkness, I make weal and create woe: I the Lord do all these things”

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Post by CBarca on Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:25 pm

@El Gunner wrote:i don't see any problem in that, language is fluid and abstract and it is always evolving.

i watched Lupe Fiasco's IG live the other day and he had an interesting discussion with a scholar in which they discussed how "black" and "white" aren't just merely colours of skin when it comes to race, but they are "frequencies" too - i.e. frequencies/levels of thought that promote and oppress certain ideals/objectives/mindsets. And i believe that is very true. We all know Europeans used their "Whiteness" as a model of suppressing everything "other", and what "Black consciousness" is trying to do is rid the world of those mental shackles, all the segregation and rigid institutionalisation.

Of course, anyone who has before read and interrogated a hint of Fanon, Steve Biko, etc, and assessed the activism of Malcolm X and MLK will know understand this insight.

Sure, but there is no reason to convey a meaning where there isn't one.

Blacklist and black sheep of X are both non racial terms.

Not everything is about race although some people really try to make it that way

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Post by McLewis on Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:03 pm

@CBarca wrote:
@El Gunner wrote:i don't see any problem in that, language is fluid and abstract and it is always evolving.

i watched Lupe Fiasco's IG live the other day and he had an interesting discussion with a scholar in which they discussed how "black" and "white" aren't just merely colours of skin when it comes to race, but they are "frequencies" too - i.e. frequencies/levels of thought that promote and oppress certain ideals/objectives/mindsets. And i believe that is very true. We all know Europeans used their "Whiteness" as a model of suppressing everything "other", and what "Black consciousness" is trying to do is rid the world of those mental shackles, all the segregation and rigid institutionalisation.

Of course, anyone who has before read and interrogated a hint of Fanon, Steve Biko, etc, and assessed the activism of Malcolm X and MLK will know understand this insight.

Not everything is about race although some people really try to make it that way


I know your coming at this subject as objectively as you can. You're trying to learn and understand. So please take what I say next in that vein:

What I quoted above is seen as effectively a dismissal of concerns of racism. It almost always said from a place of reflexive fear, anger or frustration and often by a white person. At best, I consider this low effort. Said in bad faith and at absolute worst, it can be seen as gaslighting.

If you don't believe an issue is racial in nature, discourse to understand why others see it differently is crucial to gaining more context and perspective. Maybe it changes your view, maybe not. I just know the above phrasing is problematic and while sometimes true, often serves as a verbal cudgel to shutdown meaningful dialogue on race. I felt compelled to call it out.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:07 pm

@Myesyats wrote:soon it will be illegal to say "blacklist" and "black sheep of the family" Laughing

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Post by CBarca on Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:44 pm

I see where you're coming from and I appreciate it McLewis. I agree that perhaps it's best to ask first, then argue after.

I do maintain that the argument that it would be pretty ridiculous to argue that "blacklist" or "the black sheep", both phrases/idioms that were not racialized at their founding and are not racialized now in contemporary use, are racist, but I do so acknowledging 1) this statement came from a white person who was trying to come up with a ridiculous example of the "next thing" to be censored and 2) I should ask why before engaging in discourse about it.

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Post by Myesyats on Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:05 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:soon it will be illegal to say "blacklist" and "black sheep of the family" Laughing

schwarz sehen
für deine Prüfung sehe ich schwarz
alles schwarz sehen
schwarz malen
schwarz kopieren, black=illegal

für schwarz sehen "I see it in black colors" is a very popular saying here which means things arent looking good, very very common


https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53273923

On Thursday, Twitter's engineering division tweeted out a set of words that it wants "to move away from using in favour of more inclusive language". The list includes replacing "whitelist" with "allowlist" and "master/slave" with "leader/follower".


I mean... again... I get it, but all that has done for me is make me chuckle.

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Post by McLewis on Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:45 pm

@Cbarca - For sure. I agree on those 2 particular terms and many others.

Broadily speaking - These conversations on words are performative. They are platitudes that, while needed, don't move the needle at all on police reform and racial inequality. They just don't matter enough right now.
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Post by McLewis on Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:46 pm

As for what DeSean and Stephen Jackson said, it's indefensible. It proves we can be just as ill-informed and ignorant as others.
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Post by Babun on Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:41 pm

@Myesyats wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:soon it will be illegal to say "blacklist" and "black sheep of the family" Laughing

schwarz sehen
für deine Prüfung sehe ich schwarz
alles schwarz sehen
schwarz malen
schwarz kopieren, black=illegal

für schwarz sehen "I see it in black colors" is a very popular saying here which means things arent looking good, very very common


https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53273923

On Thursday, Twitter's engineering division tweeted out a set of words that it wants "to move away from using in favour of more inclusive language". The list includes replacing "whitelist" with "allowlist" and "master/slave" with "leader/follower".


I mean... again... I get it, but all that has done for me is make me chuckle.

The origin isn't racial. Homo Sapiens instinctivly fears darkness and loves light, it's in our genes, we aren't nocturnal animals. Schwarz sehen (to see black) means there is no light or continuation. schwarz malen (to paint a situation black) is used in the same context, more in the sense of taking out the light of everything = no hope. Schwarz kopieren (illegal copy) or Schwarzfahrer (illegal commution) is again hidden in the dark, unknown, not black. In no case, a dark skinned person is meant or mentioned.
For rituals, black clothes during funerals of christians, muslims or jews is THE no colour option because black isn't a colour (physically black doesn't exist, everything black is a super dark brown, I never call afromaricans or africans black for that reason, it's strange to me, you guys use the term "black" all the time).

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:25 pm

@CBarca wrote:I see where you're coming from and I appreciate it McLewis. I agree that perhaps it's best to ask first, then argue after.

I do maintain that the argument that it would be pretty ridiculous to argue that "blacklist" or "the black sheep", both phrases/idioms that were not racialized at their founding and are not racialized now in contemporary use, are racist, but I do so acknowledging 1) this statement came from a white person who was trying to come up with a ridiculous example of the "next thing" to be censored and 2) I should ask why before engaging in discourse about it.


I've heard people on the radio complain about the term "black ice", which refers to ice on the road that looks the same as asphalt and is tough to perceive until you're on it

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Post by VivaStPauli on Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:58 pm

The idioms in Germanic languages containing black were often coined in times where nobody would see a dark-skinned person in their entire live. It is in reference to darkness. If anything, if you want to change language to get rid of problematic idioms, rename "black" people. They aren't black anyway. I've never ever seen a black person. We're all shades of brown, from us pinkish-bright khaki colored Caucasians to the dark brown so-called "black" people.
Would require less changing, and be more accurate.

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Post by Myesyats on Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:08 pm

False. There are no words that are problematic. They start being problematic when people use them with malicious intent but standing on its own, a word is nothing. There are very few exceptions where this isn't true, such as the N word which is a purely racial term, whereas just "black" or "white" isn't. They are descriptions of color, not race.

So banning products like "white/fair/light cream" or "whitening cream" is utter idiocy.

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Post by Art Morte on Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:26 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@CBarca wrote:I see where you're coming from and I appreciate it McLewis. I agree that perhaps it's best to ask first, then argue after.

I do maintain that the argument that it would be pretty ridiculous to argue that "blacklist" or "the black sheep", both phrases/idioms that were not racialized at their founding and are not racialized now in contemporary use, are racist, but I do so acknowledging 1) this statement came from a white person who was trying to come up with a ridiculous example of the "next thing" to be censored and 2) I should ask why before engaging in discourse about it.


I've heard people on the radio complain about the term "black ice", which refers to ice on the road that looks the same as asphalt and is tough to perceive until you're on it




@Myesyats wrote:False. There are no words that are problematic. They start being problematic when people use them with malicious intent but standing on its own, a word is nothing. There are very few exceptions where this isn't true, such as the N word which is a purely racial term, whereas just "black" or "white" isn't. They are descriptions of color, not race.

So banning products like "white/fair/light cream" or "whitening cream" is utter idiocy.

Agreed 100%.

Even the N-word is just latin for "black". Countries Niger and Nigeria are basically the N-word a little bit altered. A completely innocuous phrase "white lives matter" became racist once it was started being used to provocatively counter "black lives matter". We can keep on banning words, but those who wish to use derogatory language will just pick a new word for the same purpose.
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Post by LeVersacci on Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:49 pm

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