The Racism Thread

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Post by CBarca Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:39 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:So I don't agree with everything on here, but thought it was insightful and level-headed take on the 'anti racist' movement:

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-white-fragility


Spoiler:
It’s been mind-boggling to watch White Fragility celebrated in recent weeks. When it surged past a Hunger Games book on bestseller lists, USA Today cheered, “American readers are more interested in combatting racism than in literary escapism.” When DiAngelo appeared on The Tonight Show, Jimmy Fallon gushed, “I know… everyone wants to talk to you right now!” White Fragility has been pitched as an uncontroversial road-map for fighting racism, at a time when after the murder of George Floyd Americans are suddenly (and appropriately) interested in doing just that. Except this isn’t a straightforward book about examining one’s own prejudices. Have the people hyping this impressively crazy book actually read it?

The book’s most amazing passage concerns the story of Jackie Robinson:

The story of Jackie Robinson is a classic example of how whiteness obscures racism by rendering whites, white privilege, and racist institutions invisible. Robinson is often celebrated as the first African American to break the color line…

While Robinson was certainly an amazing baseball player, this story line depicts him as racially special, a black man who broke the color line himself. The subtext is that Robinson finally had what it took to play with whites, as if no black athlete before him was strong enough to compete at that level. Imagine if instead, the story went something like this: “Jackie Robinson, the first black man whites allowed to play major-league baseball.”

There is not a single baseball fan anywhere – literally not one, except perhaps Robin DiAngelo, I guess – who believes Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier because he “finally had what it took to play with whites.” Everyone familiar with this story understands that Robinson had to be exceptional, both as a player and as a human being, to confront the racist institution known as Major League Baseball. His story has always been understood as a complex, long-developing political tale about overcoming violent systemic oppression. For DiAngelo to suggest history should re-cast Robinson as “the first black man whites allowed to play major league baseball” is grotesque and profoundly belittling.



Spoiler:
Michael Korenberg, the chair of the board at the University of British Columbia, was forced to resign for liking tweets by Dinesh D’Souza and Donald Trump, which you might think is fine – but what about Latino electrical worker Emmanuel Cafferty, fired after a white activist took a photo of him making an OK symbol (it was described online as a “white power” sign)? How about Sue Schafer, the heretofore unknown graphic designer the Washington Post decided to out in a 3000-word article for attending a Halloween party two years ago in blackface (a failed parody of a different blackface incident involving Megyn Kelly)? She was fired, of course. How was this news? Why was ruining this person’s life necessary?

People everywhere today are being encouraged to snitch out schoolmates, parents, and colleagues for thoughtcrime. The New York Times wrote a salutary piece about high schoolers scanning social media accounts of peers for evidence of “anti-black racism” to make public, because what can go wrong with encouraging teenagers to start submarining each other’s careers before they’ve even finished growing?  

“People who go to college end up becoming racist lawyers and doctors. I don’t want people like that to keep getting jobs,” one 16 year-old said. “Someone rly started a Google doc of racists and their info for us to ruin their lives… I love twitter,” wrote a different person, adding cheery emojis.

A bizarre echo of North Korea’s “three generations of punishment” doctrine could be seen in the boycotts of Holy Land grocery, a well-known hummus maker in Minneapolis. In recent weeks it’s been abandoned by clients and seen its lease pulled because of racist tweets made by the CEO’s 14 year-old daughter eight years ago.
Feels a bit like the maoist cultural revolution

My current and former companies have sent out corporate messages encouraging the employees to become "anti racists" and using all the current buzzwords (yet doing nothing meaningful, like matching donations to these causes or ensuring there's a minority interviewed for every open position), to give an idea of how far these ideas have come. Both are extremely white and male, especially at the middle manager and above ranks.


I wouldn't call it level headed at all. It's 3:30 AM and I should try to get back to bed, maybe I'll respond in longer length tomorrow.

I just don't feel it's level headed as the whole thing is dripping with analogies to, like you said, a Maoist revolution. Or Russian revolution, or North Korea. It's very aggressive. To be fair, so are a lot of activists on Twitter. But I don't agree with their relentless aggression either.

Not to "bothsides" the issue, but honestly, especially with social activism, people need to fucking chill. I would argue that outrage culture, which is prevalent regardless of political or social ideals, is as big of a problem as anything right now.

With respect to the content of the article, it's pretty strawman in many parts. I don't disagree that antiracism can be transformed into something ugly. But antiracism at its core is just the concept of actively working to undo the long tyrannical reach of racism, rather than ignoring it. It's certainly inspired me to volunteer more with some of my free time. Before, I was content to just be aware of my privilege.

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Post by Young Kaz Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:28 pm

This is a bad idea.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:54 pm

The obsessive anti-racism that we can observe today is as harmful as racism itself.

Time to focus on things that actually help people instead of earning fake woke points.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:02 pm

@cbarca interested on your more developed thoughts as I did find it insightful. The maoist comparison was one I made and not the article, fwiw. Although perhaps calling it 'level-headed' was a step too far.

@Myesyats wrote:The obsessive anti-racism that we can observe today is as harmful as racism itself.

Time to focus on things that actually help people instead of earning fake woke points.


let's not make comparisons so obviously wrong we will later regret... the obsessive anti-racism can at worst end mistakenly a man's career, racism routinely ends peoples lives. They should not be equated.


Last edited by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by VivaStPauli Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:05 pm

Yeah was about to say the same, BC, agreed.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:15 pm

It's much more than just about individual people. It's the indocrination, possesion by ideology that's  the dangerous part.

I phrased that wrong, they're not equal because anti-racists have good intentions, in theory. But good intentions rarely result in good outcomes if the idea behind them is radical to the core.

Obviously you can't eradicate racism in 5 years by being as anti-racist as humanely possible. It's bound to end up having the opposite effect. People already making jokes about a "Race War".
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Post by CBarca Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:20 pm

To be fair, most people I've heard mention a "race war" have been white supremacists. I don't doubt there are radicalized antiracists who have said the same, but I personally haven't seen it
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Post by VivaStPauli Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:23 pm

I doubt they exist, CBarca, I think it's a straw man.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:26 pm

I think El Gunner mentioned it in some other thread lol, as a joke of course. I've seen such comments around the internets
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:12 pm



Wonder what goes through the head of someone trying to get a 'Karen' video

There was also another incident similar to this where the man accusing the 'Karen' immediately started selling shirts about it... this seems like another failed attempt at that
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Post by McLewis Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:11 am

I've been to that exact location, but not for Chipotle. Very white area, conservative area. Lots of Trump supporters out that way.

My initial reaction to the first video posted about this was that this was a typical Karen video. Having seen the full thing, there is definitely blame on both sides here.

The black woman felt aggrieved by almost being hit by that car, but it's really dangerous to block a car in like that and stop it from leaving. Just get the white woman's license plate and take her to court.

That said, pulling out a gun on someone and pointing it at them is the result of not only super poor judgement, but really poor firearms training. It is said that the first thing they teach in firearms class is to never point a gun at anyone unless you intend to shoot them. For that, this woman should be charged with brandishing a firearm and assault with a deadly weapon. That she was being prevented from leaving is irrelevant.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:28 am

Yeah agreed, the same thing happened in that St Louis video with the couple that kept pointing the guns at the mob and themselves (!!). It's really no wonder that gun "accidents" happen so much.

That said I would've peaced as soon as a gun was pulled (or much earlier, really), the lady was clearly erratic and it was time to gtfo, but they kept filming because it's clear they were trying to score a viral video. Guess they succeeded too.
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Post by CBarca Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:19 am

Agreed. Clearly one party is escalating to try and get a viral video, and the other woman is falling for the bait, too riled up, and brandishing a firearm and then aiming it at someone in a threatening manner, not to mention the yelling, is illegal.

It also shows you the kind of people who have guns in this country, and how terrifying that is.

Really poor on both parties here
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Post by Myesyats Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:04 am

America is fucked.
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Post by Warrior Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:18 am

@CBarca wrote:To be fair, most people I've heard mention a "race war" have been white supremacists. I don't doubt there are radicalized antiracists who have said the same, but I personally haven't seen it


Didn't we had a short debate on this some weeks ago, before George Floyd ? It started with unsensitive irony "the new trend is to tag everything as hate crimes" now i apologize. You can safely say i am white, definitely not a supremacist Laughing origins and sexuality of others are not criterias of will i respect someone or not

Maybe i became paranoid. The guns + Trump + unstable social climate give me concerns about a civil war. It's not something i fear or would use as anti-BLM material, more like something that started as a joke with myself long ago, yet as time flies i see the scenario unfolding

But you live in USA, if it's not a concern to you it should not be a concern to me, i suppose

Hopefully it was not even needed lol, reason of this post is jumping on the occasion to clarify for the last time, then i retire from posting in this kind of threads. I steamed off all my feelings about political correctness and co. Taking baits about Juve >>>
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Post by El Gunner Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:58 pm

@Myesyats wrote:America is fucked.

you can find similar incidents in South Africa tbh Laughing

but yea man, the world is probably coming to an end. so much divide, it's really sad to see
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Post by Myesyats Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:04 pm

@El Gunner wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:America is fucked.

you can find similar incidents in South Africa tbh Laughing

but yea man, the world is probably coming to an end. so much divide, it's really sad to see

It appears as if the agressive movements toward "equality" have made the world even more divided

Everyone in america screams "racism" no matter what happens, its like a madhouse.
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Post by El Gunner Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:13 pm

as long as black folk are continuously disenfranchised and still largely at the bottom of the earning hierarchy in Western society nothing will change though. While the whole time being indoctrinated into a flawed system and false sense of capitalism that "you just have to work hard and put yourself in the right positions" Laughing yea right, what a laugh that is.

that's the real problem that needs to be solved.
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Post by Myesyats Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:31 pm

How about some factual data?

“73% of black babies are born to unwed mothers. That percentage was 25 in 1963 and 11 in 1938. The absence of fathers is crucial. Even president Barack Obama recognized this when he said that “children who grow up without a father are 5 times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime, 9 times more likely to drop out of schools, and 20 times more likely to end up in prison."

Do we still accept any other reasoning beside white folk holding back black folk? I think there is a discussion to be had outside of everything being deliberately manufactured to disproportionately affect black people. As much as that was true decades ago, it's becoming less and less true by the day.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:27 pm

That number would be significantly higher if the US had not spent the past 30 years waging a "war on drugs" that has seen the incarceration rate grow many times over. It's hardly a surprise that a population in which 1/4 of the men are incarcerated has a much larger rate of single mothers.

The Racism Thread - Page 31 1280px-US_incarceration_timeline-clean.svg

I would also add that white populations have all seen out-of-wedlock children rise, and out-of-wedlock doesn't mean without a father figure. But it does if your father is in jail.
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Post by El Gunner Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:21 pm

@Myesyats wrote:How about some factual data?

“73% of black babies are born to unwed mothers. That percentage was 25 in 1963 and 11 in 1938. The absence of fathers is crucial. Even president Barack Obama recognized this when he said that “children who grow up without a father are 5 times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime, 9 times more likely to drop out of schools, and 20 times more likely to end up in prison."

Do we still accept any other reasoning beside white folk holding back black folk? I think there is a discussion to be had outside of everything being  deliberately manufactured to disproportionately affect black people. As much as that was true decades ago, it's becoming less and less true by the day.


why are those black men abandoning their families then? pls tell me. Mostly because of unemployment and having a little sense of social security because they're in the hood, and the best and quickest way for them to earn is to sell drugs and then they most likely end up in jail.

Please go watch HBO's series The Wire, and read the backstory behind it as well about its writers and creators. They capture the zeitgeist of social and racial dynamics in MODERN DAY AMERICA, not just stuff that happened decades ago, pls be more conscious.
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Post by M99 Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:51 pm

This is elaborated on even better than The Wire in the book The New Jim Crow and the documentary 13. The system holding back black people is not becoming less and less true, instead it just became less blatant. Thank Nixon, Reagan and Bill Clinton for that.
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Post by Young Kaz Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:53 pm

@M99 wrote:This is elaborated on even better than The Wire in the book The New Jim Crow and the documentary 13. The system holding back black people is not becoming less and less true, instead it just became less blatant. Thank Nixon, Reagan and Bill Clinton for that.


Funny enough you skip Bush Sr who pretty much won an election on the back of scaring white folks against black prisoners(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Horton)
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:18 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Spoiler:


Wonder what goes through the head of someone trying to get a 'Karen' video

There was also another incident similar to this where the man accusing the 'Karen' immediately started selling shirts about it... this seems like another failed attempt at that


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/couple-who-pulled-guns-black-mother-daughters-charged-felony-assault-n1232874

the couple has been charged with felonious assault & the man has been fired
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Post by Young Kaz Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:21 pm

Husband didnt really do anything wrong from what I saw in the video...probably could have stopped his woman from hopping out the car with gun though.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:25 pm

I think he pulled a gun too, but would have to rewatch to confirm
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