Re: The Racism Thread

[BarrileteCosmico]

Feel like this belongs here:

‘She can’t speak Polish to her on the bus because people abuse her’

‘You are labelling the whole country as being racist’@Bonn1eGreer and a #bbcqt audience member clash on the treatment of ‘foreigners’ in the UK. pic.twitter.com/BXe9mLVfvg

— BBC Question Time (@bbcquestiontime) October 3, 2019

[BarrileteCosmico]

and then went on to treat these groups as indistinguishable jokes in terms of abuse and other acts. Even now their lives dont matter through this representation because "conguitos" and others arent viewed as people. Bernardo's boss is on record in recent history saying there are black people, Indian people, and then normal people. This is an idea at play here. He even said Mendy looked like the conguitos caricature.

On the idea of no intent to harm, I wouldnt be so sure. You dont make a joke like that if there is no intent to harm. The harm is where the punch of it comes from. Obviously its not directly, in his eye, malicious. When you know someone though you know which button to push.

In the US you don't. In France and Portugal apparently you do. Mendy reacted this way to it:



Do you think someone that takes offense would react like that?

Twitter is not the place for this kind of talk as your viewing public is not just the person you're sending it. Bernardo ran the risk of offending a huge number of people without intending to and that's clearly wrong. That said, everything we know about this leads us to believe Bernardo had no ill intent in sending it and that Mendy didn't take any.

Comparing that to a murder seems absolutely ridiculous.

[Thimmy]

I haven't read about the Mendy/Bernardo S situation, but I was under the impression that they were pretty close team mates. Could've sworn that I saw images of them laughing and holding around each other's backs in training a while back. Maybe I'm getting Mendy mixed up with someone else. I suppose that makes me racist

[Unique]

I haven't read about the Mendy/Bernardo S situation, but I was under the impression that they were pretty close team mates. Could've sworn that I saw images of them laughing and holding around each other's backs in training a while back. Maybe I'm getting Mendy mixed up with someone else. I suppose that makes me racist :lol:

tbh and this is the part where i give RG a headache the old saying people all look alike to me does hold true for some people. i mean if you have to give a discription to the police on what chris tucker and will smith look like how would you describe them.

[Unique]

imo the truth is ( and no one will admit it ) everyone is a little bit racist. blacks whites arabs orientals will always be drawn more to each other when making friends. we dont do this to be nasty to other races but we all do it.

[Hapless_Hans]

Black people DO look alike to us white people who have little everyday experience interacting with black people.
Because our perception is racist.
If we meet a black person, we register them as a black person first and foremost, not registering all the other attributes that person has, which in reality are as remarkable as their skin colour.
But we store them under "skin colour black", and that's why we can't discern between those stored in that category.

[Unique]

Black people DO look alike to us white people who have little everyday experience interacting with black people.
Because our perception is racist.
If we meet a black person, we register them as a black person first and foremost, not registering all the other attributes that person has, which in reality are as remarkable as their skin colour.
But we store them under "skin colour black", and that's why we can't discern between those stored in that category.

thats not true. they look alike to us because they all have the same distinguishing features. the same as arabs or chinese or japanese. i think its only us white people that have a mixed bag of distinguishing features. we can distinguish black people or arab or oriental people when we see them but if we had to discribe them to some one the discription would be the same apart from hight and weight for most parts.

[Myesyats]

Feel like this belongs here:

‘She can’t speak Polish to her on the bus because people abuse her’

‘You are labelling the whole country as being racist’@Bonn1eGreer and a #bbcqt audience member clash on the treatment of ‘foreigners’ in the UK. pic.twitter.com/BXe9mLVfvg

— BBC Question Time (@bbcquestiontime) October 3, 2019

That sounds completely made up

[Hapless_Hans]

Black people DO look alike to us white people who have little everyday experience interacting with black people.
Because our perception is racist.
If we meet a black person, we register them as a black person first and foremost, not registering all the other attributes that person has, which in reality are as remarkable as their skin colour.
But we store them under "skin colour black", and that's why we can't discern between those stored in that category.

thats not true. they look alike to us because they all have the same distinguishing features. the same as arabs or chinese or japanese. i think its only us white people that have a mixed bag of distinguishing features. we can distinguish black people or arab or oriental people when we see them but if we had to discribe them to some one the discription would be the same apart from hight and weight for most parts.

Nope.
IMO we think only we have a "mixed bag of distinguishing features" because we are accustomed to actually perceiving these features without just going "oh look, a white guy".
While when we meet a black person, the perception of "there is a black person" supersedes all the other distinguishing features we could notice.
And that categorization is a consequence of a racist mindset, i.e. a mindset that puts the category of 'race' above all other categories or features.
When in reality of course it's just skin colour and various other attributes that can vary greatly. We could just as well find commonalities, or differences, beyond skin colour which we aren't accustomed to find.

It's probably the same the other way round. I bet Chinese people can't tell Europeans apart.

[BarrileteCosmico]

Feel like this belongs here:

‘She can’t speak Polish to her on the bus because people abuse her’

‘You are labelling the whole country as being racist’@Bonn1eGreer and a #bbcqt audience member clash on the treatment of ‘foreigners’ in the UK. pic.twitter.com/BXe9mLVfvg

— BBC Question Time (@bbcquestiontime) October 3, 2019

That sounds completely made up

I propose you go speak polish to someone on a Lincolnshire bus and find out the truth

[Unique]

Black people DO look alike to us white people who have little everyday experience interacting with black people.
Because our perception is racist.
If we meet a black person, we register them as a black person first and foremost, not registering all the other attributes that person has, which in reality are as remarkable as their skin colour.
But we store them under "skin colour black", and that's why we can't discern between those stored in that category.

thats not true. they look alike to us because they all have the same distinguishing features. the same as arabs or chinese or japanese. i think its only us white people that have a mixed bag of distinguishing features. we can distinguish black people or arab or oriental people when we see them but if we had to discribe them to some one the discription would be the same apart from hight and weight for most parts.

Nope.
We think only we have a "mixed bag of distinguishing features" because we are accustomed to actually perceiving these feature without just going "oh look, a white guy".
While when we meet a black person, the perception of "there is a black person" supersedes all the other distinguishing features we could notice.
And that categorization is a consequence of a racist mindset, i.e. a mindset that puts the category of 'race' above all other categories or features.
When in reality of course it's just skin colour and various other attributes that can vary greatly. We could just as well find commonalities beyond skin colour which we aren't accustomed to find.

It's probably the same the other way round. I bet Chinese people can't tell Europeans apart.

well lets put this to the test. without talking about the ears look at the pictures of chris rock and will smith that i posted and discribe them. discribe both of them without saying who is who and lets see if we know witch is witch from your discription.

[Unique]

Feel like this belongs here:

‘She can’t speak Polish to her on the bus because people abuse her’

‘You are labelling the whole country as being racist’@Bonn1eGreer and a #bbcqt audience member clash on the treatment of ‘foreigners’ in the UK. pic.twitter.com/BXe9mLVfvg

— BBC Question Time (@bbcquestiontime) October 3, 2019

That sounds completely made up

I propose you go speak polish to someone on a Lincolnshire bus and find out the truth

and what do you know about taking a bus ride in lincolnshire buddy.

[CBarca]

Feel like this belongs here:

‘She can’t speak Polish to her on the bus because people abuse her’

‘You are labelling the whole country as being racist’@Bonn1eGreer and a #bbcqt audience member clash on the treatment of ‘foreigners’ in the UK. pic.twitter.com/BXe9mLVfvg

— BBC Question Time (@bbcquestiontime) October 3, 2019

That sounds completely made up

It could be, it might not be. What's not made up is the incredible moving of the goalposts by the audience member.

That was a truly incredible example of why oppression is so hard to dispel. People have their ideas and they're set in them. That was a depressing story to hear. Assuming it's true, the only thing you should feel as an audience member is "poor woman", because she can't speak a different language without being abused.

Instead what's happened here is that the audience member accused the storyteller of calling the entire country racist (uhhh, she did no such thing, she shared a story), and then a poster on GL assumed that the story was made up.

And I say oppression because it's the same thing for women. I don't mean to change the subject of the thread but just to add that this is what women face as well everytime they talk about abuse. "Oh well he didn't mean it" or "sounds made up".

Oppression via sexism and racism thrives on those in power doubting the validity of structures that those of color live under.

And don't get me wrong here, it could be made up. And in fact, it's important to take things on a case by case basis. We know there is bullshit out there (Jussie smollet for example. Or the other day I saw a video about police harassing this black guy at his house. I researched it and it was a squatter who had the house raided by the police Dept and FBI a couple months later. He posted bail and police are on the lookout since then).

This is why it's important to have friends of color and friends who are women. People you can trust who can lend their viewpoint and you know they're telling the truth. I've learned a great deal ever since I just kept an open ear to those I knew personally who were black, or Latina, etc.

[McLewis]

Hell, I confuse black people and I'm black. I did it a few days ago. Mixed up Chiwetel Ejiofor with Nathan Pinnock in a history docudrama I was watching.

Mixed up Danai Guirira and Florence Kasumba several times during Black Panther. It happens to everyone, I think.

[Unique]

Hell, I confuse black people and I'm black. I did it a few days ago. Mixed up Chiwetel Ejiofor with Nathan Pinnock in a history docudrama I was watching.

Mixed up Danai Guirira and Florence Kasumba several times during Black Panther. It happens to everyone, I think.

im not sure how anyone can mix up Samuel L. Jackson with laurence fishburne but i saw a interviewer do that once

[Thimmy]

No one cared when I got Lenglet and Digne mixed up, although they don't look anything alike. As I mentioned previously, people tend to instinctively look for common denominators or certain similarities, and that instinct can throw off one's ability to look for more easily distinguishable factors - especially when it comes to people that we have little to no reason to be interested in or pay particular attention to, and even more so when it comes to races that we're less familiar with seeing.

Certain people simply look alike due to similarities in genetical heritage. I know some would still define it as racism if you aren't able to tell those apart, but I find that really irrational and I don't know what to tell those people. Harsh reality, I guess. My last name is a generic, Scandinavian -sen name, and I've mixed up more Eriksens, Christiansens, Andersens and Hansens, and more recently, Charlottes and Carolines than I like to admit, but I like to think they don't hold any grudges against me. It's not my fault that I never had a chance to properly interact with them, and that they all had similar hair and proportions.

[Myesyats]

I propose you go speak polish to someone on a Lincolnshire bus and find out the truth

Never been there but I've taken a fair share of buses in Maidstone & Kent in general mostly, where my aunt lives, spoke a lot of polish on them & in the shops etc. -- never even got a look.

Someone might have said something to that lady at some point but I don't believe she gets REGULARLY abused for speaking a foreign language. That sounds silly.

Now granted, for some people Polish sounds like Russian, so maybe they think she's a Russian spy? I'm not discarding that theory just yet.

[Unique]

I propose you go speak polish to someone on a Lincolnshire bus and find out the truth

Never been there but I've taken a fair share of buses in Maidstone & Kent in general mostly, where my aunt lives, spoke a lot of polish on them & in the shops etc. -- never even got a look.

Someone might have said something to that lady at some point but I don't believe she gets REGULARLY abused for speaking a foreign language. That sounds silly.

Now granted, for some people Polish sounds like Russian, so maybe they think she's a Russian spy? I'm not discarding that theory just yet.

maidstone is 30mins away from me mate. next time your over look me up. you can come round my house for dinner and meet the family

[Thimmy]

I bet Chinese people can't tell Europeans apart.

I can confirm that many Koreans do the same thing we do to them; look for easily noticeable features that they can quickly distinguish from their own. I was told several times that I looked like a Canadian, Australian, Dutch, German or Polish tourist, English teacher or expat they'd met or seen, because we were all tall, had similar hair and "a tall nose bridge". I would assume I look very different to at least some of those people, but evidently, we have the same outstanding features from their point of view. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Can't expect them to re-wire their instincts for the sake of some tourists they'll have a brief chat with.

[BarrileteCosmico]

Feel like this belongs here:

‘She can’t speak Polish to her on the bus because people abuse her’

‘You are labelling the whole country as being racist’@Bonn1eGreer and a #bbcqt audience member clash on the treatment of ‘foreigners’ in the UK. pic.twitter.com/BXe9mLVfvg

— BBC Question Time (@bbcquestiontime) October 3, 2019

That sounds completely made up

I propose you go speak polish to someone on a Lincolnshire bus and find out the truth

and what do you know about taking a bus ride in lincolnshire buddy.

Nothing, which is why I proposed more research

[Myesyats]

I only go there during the summer if ever but yeah maybe some day, why not.

My boy just lifted visas for us so I might be visiting the US of A next summer.  

“We will be giving a full visa waiver to Poland,” Mr. Trump told reporters Friday, celebrating ties between the two countries.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-moves-to-lift-visa-restrictions-on-polish-citizens-who-visit-u-s-11570208514

[Unique]

I propose you go speak polish to someone on a Lincolnshire bus and find out the truth

and what do you know about taking a bus ride in lincolnshire buddy.

Nothing, which is why I proposed more research

i didnt watch that video but i take it something happend on a bus in lincolnshire. im not sure if that warents more research tbh.

[Young Kaz]

and then went on to treat these groups as indistinguishable jokes in terms of abuse and other acts. Even now their lives dont matter through this representation because "conguitos" and others arent viewed as people. Bernardo's boss is on record in recent history saying there are black people, Indian people, and then normal people. This is an idea at play here. He even said Mendy looked like the conguitos caricature.

On the idea of no intent to harm, I wouldnt be so sure. You dont make a joke like that if there is no intent to harm. The harm is where the punch of it comes from. Obviously its not directly, in his eye, malicious. When you know someone though you know which button to push.

In the US you don't. In France and Portugal apparently you do. Mendy reacted this way to it:



Do you think someone that takes offense would react like that?

Twitter is not the place for this kind of talk as your viewing public is not just the person you're sending it. Bernardo ran the risk of offending a huge number of people without intending to and that's clearly wrong. That said, everything we know about this leads us to believe Bernardo had no ill intent in sending it and that Mendy didn't take any.

Comparing that to a murder seems absolutely ridiculous.

The french media would have hopped on that too.

I've reacted in a similar way when offended by people in spaces where I had little power. You have to look at power dynamics.

If Mendy were offended, what would he have to gain by doing so?

He's a true talent, but a man who cannot remain healthy enough to hold a consistent spot in the team. Bernardo is heir apparent of David Silva, and someone who last season proved himself to be top 3 most important players in the squad. Mendy has no foot to stand on in this instance, the same way minorities in corporate spaces across the globe have to smile at such slights.

He, perhaps, did not mean harm but he needs to server a suspension and go to classes because he obviously has some issues with race that needs to be worked on.

[Young Kaz]

I haven't read about the Mendy/Bernardo S situation, but I was under the impression that they were pretty close team mates. Could've sworn that I saw images of them laughing and holding around each other's backs in training a while back. Maybe I'm getting Mendy mixed up with someone else. I suppose that makes me racist

John Derbyshire(among others) is a white supremacist with a Chinese wife.

Being close with someone of another race does not stop you from holding bigoted beliefs about that group, nor does it stop you from being a racist.

[VivaStPauli]

I haven't read about the Mendy/Bernardo S situation, but I was under the impression that they were pretty close team mates. Could've sworn that I saw images of them laughing and holding around each other's backs in training a while back. Maybe I'm getting Mendy mixed up with someone else. I suppose that makes me racist :lol:

tbh and this is the part where i give RG a headache the old saying people all look alike to me does hold true for some people. i mean if you have to give a discription to the police on what chris tucker and will smith look like how would you describe them.

Okay, first of all, if you're just verbally describing people, I would have a fuckton of problems describing two white people to you as well, if they both had the same hairstyle and beard, and similar eyes and nose, but if I described them to a sketch artist, you'd get it.
Let me show you how racism has blinded you anyway:

Subject one has a broad face with a square jaw with a  broad chin, broad nose and dark brown eyes, his ears are flat. He's got a crop top and a thin goatee, and a dark skin colour.

Subject two has a triangular face and jaw with a pointy chin, broad nose and dark brown eyes, with dumbo ears. He's got a crop top and a thin-ish goatee, and a dark skin colour.

[Nishankly]

It's probably the same the other way round. I bet Chinese people can't tell Europeans apart.

I have now lived on 3 countries with different facial features and I can confirm this is true.

If I go to club in France, everyone looks the same to me until I notice their faces personally. The same way in Singapore, everyone seems to be Chinese.

In these same clubs, my other friends of the native country have no problem finding the people they know within the 60 seconds.

This is mostly because of limited interaction between different races so we have a perception that "our" race has the most distinguishing features since we have only interacted with them as we've grown up to notice these different features instantaneously. In Indian clubs or pubs, I notice my friends and which girls are hot or not within the first 30 seconds.

Travelling and living in other countries makes you a lot wiser, please never stop travelling guys.

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