Re: The Bundesliga Thread 19/20

[Myesyats]

At best, you wouldnt be saying or doing anything about it. Statistically speaking, its almost impossible that you wouldve been one of the Schindlers of the time.

Well , you' re Polish and so you should know that for example Poland had the  biggest Resistance movement of the whole Europe ( superior  even to Italy, where Resistenza Partigiana was relevant too  ),  Armia Krajowa is glorious history.
So yes, of course there was also brave  and righteous  people  ready to fight for freedom

390k people in AK and the entire population was 35 million. That's 1% of all people. I probably wouldnt be part of the 1%. I'd be just a spectator most likely.

Besides i'm talking about nazi Germany, not Poland. Hitler wasnt our leader so it's different, we were the ones in a defensive position.

You should read Ordinary Men by Browning. These were just regular folks just like me and you turned into cold-blooded murderers.

[The Demon of Carthage]

You can never tell the true nature of a human being just by looking at some picture.

Nazi Germany was filled with nazis, but there was also a portion of them who didn't agree with their leader's views, but had to keep their mouths shut for fear of suffering the same fate.

Those players could very well be nazis. All of them. But there's also a fair chance that at least one of them was just doing the salute out of fear.

Remember, we are talking about one of the most evil human beings to have ever walked this planet. There's no way you could tell for sure how you would react if you were with them at that particular horrible time.

[Myesyats]

Who are you to tell me what I would have been if I had been someone else?

I can imagine how vulnerable people were in Germany at the time after WW1 defeat and a massive depression.

Austrians didnt even put up a fight against Hitler. In fact, they absolutely rejoiced for the Anschluss. They loved him.

[Thimmy]

Well, I have no doubt that Hans, our very own, shining beacon of hope in this spineless world, would have no qualms with showing up in nothing but women’s underwear AND refused to do the nazi salute. Because Hans has principles. And he would die for those principles. But only in theory

[Robespierre]

At best, you wouldnt be saying or doing anything about it. Statistically speaking, its almost impossible that you wouldve been one of the Schindlers of the time.

Well , you' re Polish and so you should know that for example Poland had the  biggest Resistance movement of the whole Europe ( superior  even to Italy, where Resistenza Partigiana was relevant too  ),  Armia Krajowa is glorious history.
So yes, of course there was also brave  and righteous  people  ready to fight for freedom

390k people in AK and the entire population was 35 million. That's 1% of all people. I probably wouldnt be part of the 1%. I'd be just a spectator most likely.

Besides i'm talking about nazi Germany, not Poland. Hitler wasnt our leader so it's different, we were the ones in a defensive position.

You should read Ordinary Men by Browning. These were just regular folks just like me and you turned into cold-blooded murderers.

you were under a Nazi occupation though.
I can take you the Italian example anyway,  Mussolini was our leader but we built a strong Partigiana Resistance against nazi-fascism. Moreover the number of partisans were also superior, but even Allies  wanted to minimize their politician importance as much as possible ( Churchill was afraid  of Partigiani,especially about  those Italians, because mainly reds ,since in Iugoslavia   Partisans under Tito had built a Communist state after the liberation. So he didn't want to repeat same experience)

Having said that, I'd continue willingly these discussions but I feel we 're going off topic So I'll stop it.

Anyway I think there are other good reasons for hating Schalke 04 beyond a presumptive Nazi past.

I can suggest you 3 at least.

[Robespierre]

Why We Don't Love Your Club: Schalke 04
https://www.fearthewall.com/2016/4/9/11397282/why-we-dont-love-your-club-schalke-04

One of the biggest derbies in the world is upon us, as we play Schalke 04 this weekend. The Revierderby is a rivalry unlike any other, with the clubs being mortal enemies from 1925 onward. So, instead of looking at all the reasons we love Schalke, let's look at the reasons why we don't

The first three games the teams played were all Schalke victories, with the first game played in 1925. At the time Dortmund were still a low key club, whereas Schalke was just starting to gain the steam that would propel them into their decade of dominance in the 30s-40s. BVB struggled to win against Schalke following the first few games.

Our rivalry really kickstarted in the 1930s and 1940s when Schalke were at their peak, winning six German Championships in that time period. Now the backdrop of this time period of course, is the darkest period in German history. The rise of the Nazi party affected every part of German society, and the soccer leagues were being restructured at the time as well. The Nazi's wanted to control soccer in the country, to show their people how powerful they were. BVB's president at the time was arrested for refusing to join the party and there were BVB supporters were imprisoned for anti Nazi sympathies. Schalke was used as Nazi propaganda at the time, as well as the fact that they were the most successful club in the country. Now this is not to say that BVB supporters didn't fall under the sway of the Nazi party as well. This rivalry was mostly born out of Schalke being hyped up as the best club in the country, by the reigning government, than some sort of political battle between supporters. I felt this was important to point out, because I know lots of non-german supporters of BVB may focus on Schalke being used for Nazi propaganda and just label them a Nazi club. The entire country bears the burden of the crimes of the Nazi era, and foreign BVB fans shouldn't try to diminish the success of our main enemies due to a horrible period that affected the whole country.

Now that that's been dealt with, back to the soccer. During that time we were absolutely dominated by Schalke in the Revierderby. Schalke scored 6-7 goals on us regularly and even beat us 10-0 once. However, we did get our first win over Schalke, with August Lenz scoring the single goal that would put us over the blues.

Our luck would soon change, as we would go on to dominate them in the Revierderby for the next 18 years between the war and the creation of the Bundesliga. We won 16 in this time and only lost seven times out of 33 matches. By this point the Revierderby was a country wide famous derby, as fans enjoyed watching an old soccer power house being beaten by the then new kid on the block. We also won a few titles during this period, while Schalke won none. Good times.

When the Bundesliga started, things started out well for us - at first. We won eight of our first 10 matches. Then things started to go way south after our first European trophy. Schalke returned to dominance over us soon after and beat us on the regular. During this time, the rivalry flared even more as Schalke was embroiled in a huge cheating scandal that had many of the clubs players banned from German football. A couple of years after the scandal, Schalke beat Dortmund late in the season to help send Dortmund down to relegation. After BVBs' relegation, we would not play Schalke for a few years. Out of all of our losses to Schalke, that one stings more in BVB fans hearts, than most.

Of course BVB came back, and we went right back on top in the Revierderby, winning 11 over the next decade. This all culminated in 1988 when we eliminated Schalke from the Pokal, and helped take points from them in the league, where they were relegated this time. Oh joy.

In the 90s Schalke had the advantage in the Revierderby. However, BVB was the better club of the time, winning league titles, and another European championships. Schalke may have won the UEFA Cup, but one upping them with another European championship felt good for the fans of BVB. Another confirmation of our league and cup dominance over Schalke.

Damals als er noch zu den Guten gehörte pic.twitter.com/BYwoK7rqYi

— bvbhistory (@bvbhistory) April 9, 2016

I'd say the best victory for BVB in the Revierderby in recent years has to be May 12th 2007. For those that don't know, Schalke was winning the league as they travelled to Signal Iduna to try and close out the season. BVB defeated them 2-0 taking the title away from Schalke. Schalke has still not won a league title in over 50 years, and BVB fans are proud to be apart of stopping them in their best chance since.

#Derbymodus on pic.twitter.com/6w952utX2K

— bvbhistory (@bvbhistory) April 8, 2016

The Revierderby is always unpredictable. Sometimes we are the better team and lose and sometimes it's the other way around. While we may always have an eternal hatred and rivalry with the evil club in blue, we're glad they're around for us to hate. So Schalke 04 while we don't love your club, we do love to hate your club and for that we thank you.



What an article https://www.fearthewall.com/2016/4/9/11397282/why-we-dont-love-your-club-schalke-04

[Myesyats]

I've never read about any organized resistance movement in Nazi Deutschland. There were few and far in-between. Lets suppose it was 50-50 then. Still a pretty good chance that you were on the other side.

Some people say his "approval rating" was about 80-90% around 1939

Perhaps it was out of fear, I'm no psychologist.

But agreed, lets stay on topic.

[elfmeter]

you hysterical teenage asians really are dumb

[Myesyats]

Are we talking west Asians, central Asians or East Asians? Because these are 3 very different things

[Hapless_Hans]

I've never read about any organized resistance movement in Nazi Deutschland. There were few and far in-between. Lets suppose it was 50-50 then. Still a pretty good chance that you were on the other side.

Some people say his "approval rating" was about 80-90% around 1939

Perhaps it was out of fear, I'm no psychologist.

But agreed, lets stay on topic.

You're right of course. The people were behind the Nazis. They elected them. They liked them.

Besides, obviously a photo with people showing the Hitler salute in 1939 at an official gathering wouldn't enable us to discern who among them might be a little Schindler, who just apathetic, and who a hardcore villain. Schindler himself would have emphatetically greeted that way.
But you're right, chances are if you lived then, you wouldn't be a hero. For Germans, the rule of thumb is, if parents tell you your grandparents opposed the regime, they're most likely lying or exaggerating. And in legend, every grandparent opposed the regime in SOME little way
Because as you say, the instances of real resistance are far and few between. That is, beyond the organized left, the Social Democrats and Communists who were jailed, killed, or fled early on.
Germans, as a whole, are very obedient to authority.

[Myesyats]

agreed

Also you have to take into account that the men who rose to power were fighting in WW1 in absolutely horrendous conditions so it shaped them in a certain way. Can't even imagine fighting in ditches with rainwater up to your waist. I get it. He promised them expansion, I'm sure that was very appealing at the time.

[Robespierre]

Berlin derby in a hour
Hertha - Union

What a time to be alive.

[Hapless_Hans]

Hertha Berlin (4-2-3-1) Jarstein; Pekarik, Boyata, Torunarigha, Plattenhadt; Skjelbred, Grujic; Lukebakio, Darida, Cunha; Ibisevic.
Substitutes: Smarsch, Klunter, Mittelstadt, Dardai, Dilrosun, Maier, Samardzic, Piatek, Ngankam.

Union Berlin (3-4-2-1) Gikiewicz; Friedrich, Hubner, Parensen; Trimmel, Andrich, Promel, Reichel; Ingvartsen, Bulter; Andersson.
Substitutes: Nicolas, Subotic, Ryerson, Mees, Malli, Kroos, Gentner, Polter, Ujah.

Couple of months ago I would have had high hopes for a Union win at the Olympiastadion

Sadly, with Labbadia personifying a 10 months new manager bounce on steroids, and nothing beyond, Hertha are not to be underestimated currently.

Momentum is for Hertha, but this IS a derby - even if officially this is only the FIFTH competitive game between the two, the first being in 2nd Buli in 2010..

only friendlies, games between Union and Hertha II in the 3rd/4th division post re-unification, and in the 1950s games between Hertha and a West Berlin splinter club that split from Union post WWII
not sure about Berlin cup games in the 20s..

[Robespierre]

Benched Subotic after that bad match against Bayern lol
What a decline
I' m ok with it though, more chance to get points against our Wessies cousins

[Hapless_Hans]

AND IT'S LIVE

[Hapless_Hans]

SCHIRI WIR WISSEN WO DEIN AUTO STEHT

ffs

[Hapless_Hans]

commentator claims it "rained quite heavily in the capital today"

errr.. no it didn't?!

[Robespierre]

No shots on this 1st half, at least public won't request a refund.

[Hapless_Hans]

Grottenkick

[Robespierre]

Geisterspiel

[Robespierre]

IBISEVIC

Former Hoffenheim legend scored for Hertha now

[Robespierre]

Lol 2-0 after 30 seconds
The darkness falls to the East

[Hapless_Hans]

and good night I'm out

[Hapless_Hans]

ffs

[Nishankly]

Bundesliga with an emotional and marketing masterclass here for popular world football. This will go a long way in increasing soft spots for German teams.

[Hapless_Hans]

NOW it's raining

[Sponsored content]