The Official Final Fantasy thread

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Post by rincon Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:02 am

I'm only have just joined Aerith, going back to Sector 7.

I think you guys are further ahead right? @thimmy @BarrileteCosmico

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Post by Thimmy Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:47 am

You weren’t the biggest fan of the original game, right? So, it makes sense that any changes, both minor and drastic ones, don’t bother you. I get the impression that we generally have quite different tastes when it comes to Final Fantasy games, as you’ve stated several times that you’ve enjoyed the more recent games in the series far more than I have.

For all of their shortcomings, I really miss the distinctive atmospheres of the Playstation One era- FF games. They were quite consistent in setting a particular mood, and only changed it up every once in a while. The newer games don’t seem to have prioritized using both audio and visuals to create a tangible atmosphere. They’ve all been mostly generic in that respect. At least, that’s the impression I get from them.

For better or worse, this remake is much more similar to the more modern games than the older ones. Of course, that doesn’t mean that I don’t enjoy it. Like I said before, I’m already looking forward to the next game.

I appreciate some of the new changes, but I also miss certain things from the original. Right now, I’m back at the 7th Heaven for the second time, after getting sent down to the sewers by Don Corneo.

Spoiler:
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Post by rincon Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:24 pm

Thimmy wrote:You weren’t the biggest fan of the original game, right? So, it makes sense that any changes, both minor and drastic ones, don’t bother you. I get the impression that we generally have quite different tastes when it comes to Final Fantasy games, as you’ve stated several times that you’ve enjoyed the more recent games in the series far more than I have.

Most of my top 10 games would be FF games, so in that sense I'm a fan of FF7. Just within FF, 7 isn't at the top like it is for a lot of people, particularly Midgar I didn't care much about. I preferred my FF to be an epic (pseudo-)medieval adventure rather than gloomy corporate sabotage. 9, 10, 5 and 6 are my favorites, in that order. After that it's probably 7 and 12.

My mindset is the same still, FFIX is my favorite game of all time but I would be more excited by a remake project like this one than with a 1 for 1 remake with updated graphics. I prefer to play a reimagined version of it, since I can always play the original as it is. For something like FFVIII, maybe my least favorite in the series, I would love this remake.

For FFX and forward a remake like this wouldn't make much sense for me since it's already quite cinematic and in the same style. There I prefer remasters like the FFXHD or FFXII zodiac age.

I see your point though, like I said in the other page, I expect parts of the fanbase to have different expectations about what the remake should be. For me this is a resounding success so far but for those who just wanted the same game but with 2020 visuals the story changes may bother them.

Thimmy wrote:For all of their shortcomings, I really miss the distinctive atmospheres of the Playstation One era- FF games. They were quite consistent in setting a particular mood, and only changed it up every once in a while. The newer games don’t seem to have prioritized using both audio and visuals to create a tangible atmosphere. They’ve all been mostly generic in that respect. At least, that’s the impression I get from them.

This is just subjective for us. I prefer story based games much more over open world narratives, atmosphere and story are the main thing for me. The atmosphere in FF7R has been amazing, Midgar feels very much alive and I feel the characters (and their actions) totally connected to the world. The whole experience of just being in that world and narrative is the best thing in this game for me so far. Now FF7R takes the already GOAT soundtrack of the original and improves it. Music and visuals is the one thing that Square never declined on for me. I'm much more engaged with the reactor and Avalanche missions this time around since you live it more, that's the benefit I see of this remake approach. I'm not waiting to see Sephiroth, Hojo, Ancient stuff, etc. like I'd be in the original game.

Walking through Midgar every other NPC talks about their own consequences/views/news of what you and ShinRa are doing. It can't be 40 hours of doom though, that would just be tiring, FF games have always switched up the mood and pace to feel fresh. FF7 itself was a wacky game, Cloud and Barrett take themselves way too seriously and trying to be cool tough guys while silliness around them undermined it. There were plenty of jokes, you fight a house, crossdress, do a squat contest, mess with the Turks, etc. just in Midgar. You ride a dolphin that jumps up a tower, can't wait to see how they approach that one in the next game Laughing. Golden Saucer, Costa del Sol, Fort Condor, Cait Sith exists, etc. It's one of the most "out there" FF games in terms of mood.

Really looking forward to seeing what they do with Cait Sith since he didn't even make sense in the OG. There is already the Cait Sith theme song in the game plus his picture so I have hope he will be in the party eventually.
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Post by rincon Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:51 pm

@thimmy @BC
spoilers up to the start of Ch8:
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Post by Thimmy Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:22 pm

Yeah, the original FF7 was wacky. The wacky parts were scattered, though, and I think they were consistent in creating a particular mood based on the area or setting. I think they introduced wackiness rarely enough to make them surprising.

As for the audio in the areas where they don’t use the original tracks, It’s hit or miss for me. I thought the battle theme during the second mako reactor bombing sounded awfully stale and generic. Then again, they modified a battle theme later in the game to sound more.. bombastic than it originally was, which I don’t mind.

I thought that was Zack, as well. I wonder how long we’ll have to wait for part 2. I have to say, I love the increase in combat difficulty in this game. Cloud is probably your safest bet as leader, but I’m running with Tifa for quick battles. With her speed/ATB gauge boosts, she can make quick work of most non-boss mobs, either through dishing out heavy physical damage or forcing them into pressured/staggered state.
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Post by rincon Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:39 pm

So far I've been switching a lot during fights, and boss fights in particular. For small fights I usually control cloud. For bosses with Cloud, Tifa, and Barrett I'm constantly switching depending on the moment. Probably more Tifa and Barrett than Cloud.

Tifa is my main physical damage dealer so I'm using her against bosses mostly. Using Chakra to keep her alive while fast charging the ATB to keep Unbridled Strength high. Switching to Barrett for quickly charging his ATB to use healing spells/Lifesaver, or Focus Shot and Overcharge. Cloud is pretty hard to kill so I let him be by himself more, and switch to him when I need more magic damage since I have him with Fira, Thundara and Blizzara.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:23 pm

rincon wrote:
Spoiler:


2nd reactor mission:

rincon wrote:I'm only have just joined Aerith, going back to Sector 7.

I think you guys are further ahead right? @thimmy @BarrileteCosmico

I'm currently going back to sector 7 too, expect to make slow progress now that my long weekend is done

rincon wrote:@thimmy @BC
spoilers up to the start of Ch8:

Same about Zach, wonder where this is all going. I will say it's a rather bold move by Square Enix to reimagine this stuff rather than stick to the original closely.

As for the "this feels like a more modern FF game" thoughts, I can't comment as the last FF game I played was on the PS2 but it does feel very much like FF7 to me. I think they did a phenomenal job selling Midgar as a place where people live, actions have consequences, and each sector feels different enough. They also get a lot of the "campiness" right. Even the character models feel quite true to the original (ie cartoonish), even though I would've preferred them to go for a more realistic approach like in Advent Children.

Also agreed with rincon that FFIX was the GOAT
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Post by rincon Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:42 pm

Was just talking to my brother who is right before the Reactor 5 mission. He had only played a little bit of FF7, only Midgar and that was a long time ago so he doesn't remember much, just the Aerith spoilers that everyone knows.

He says he hasn't been this invested in a group of characters and story since his first play through of FFX. Loving it so far.

Wish I could go in that blind without already knowing the story.

OG FF7 spoilers:
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:42 pm

Yeah honestly I find that even for myself I'm very fuzzy on a lot of the details. I remember the broad strokes of the story but often wonder "was that the way it was in the OG story? can't remember"
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:57 pm

Beating that house took me forever, Cloud was a useless pos Mad
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Post by Thimmy Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:37 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Beating that house took me forever, Cloud was a useless pos Mad


Yeah, you need to use a lot of magic for that fight. Cloud is only useful for dodging, running in circles and being a decoy Razz

Now that I’m nearing the end of the game, I like it more than I did initially. I may not be as big of a fan as you two seem to be, I’m quite picky, but it’s a very good game. I especially appreciate how they’ve modified the weapon and materia systems.

Even typically assumed weaker weapons can be useful now, as it’s all a matter of play style, and weapons you may have left to collect dust sometimes become useful again as your character levels up and all weapons receive new weapon spheres. Good examples of this are Cloud’s last weapon and Tifa’s early weapon, Iron Fist, which has insane physical damage at any point in the game, but at the expense of magic damage.
Spoiler:

Materia has become a lot more complex, as it matters whether you place them in the weapon or armor slots, and there are tons of combinations that allow for more strategy.

Final Fantasy 7R is a very good game. It doesn’t quite capture the essence of the original game, in my opinion - not to the extent that I would’ve desired from a more purist point of view anyway, but it doesn’t seem like that was Nomura’s intention. It’s a re-imagination of the original game, and for what it is, it’s very good. It does have a fair share of minor flaws, and I found the pacing a bit frustrating at times, but it also surprised me how polished the game feels. It’s definitely an ambitious game, and I’m pretty excited to find out what happens next.
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Post by Thimmy Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:47 pm

I wish the overall experience of this game had been more condensed. It does drag on at times. The last few hours of it are epic, though. Cut out all of the shitty sidequests, arbitrary movement restrictions and issues with pacing, and this would be so much better.
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Post by Firenze Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:06 pm

my copy just arrived a week after it should have been delivered smh

hyped
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Post by Kaladin Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:33 pm

Its a terrible remake, nostalgia aside its a very shallow game that depends a lot on its nostalgia factor, the complete opposite of Capcom's recent RE remakes. God, i hate Squeenix so much.
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Post by Thimmy Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:57 pm

How many hours or minutes of the game did you play before you decided it was shit, ES?

I ask, because I was initially sceptical, the game looked good and the combat was alright, but unlike Rincon and BC I wasn’t overly convinced. The game is pretty long. 40+ hours. It only gets better as you play through it. The combat gets better, the story becomes more focused, and my overall impression of the game has kmproved substantially. FF7R occasionally reminds menof the DLC for FF15. They were a lot better than the base game, but they still felt like the newer games in the series. I think FF7R starts off quite slow, but it left me with a good impression. I’m actually excited to play the next game.


Last edited by Thimmy on Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:18 pm; edited 10 times in total
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Post by Kaladin Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:14 pm

Finished it
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Post by Thimmy Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:19 pm

Alright then. Different strokes. I can agree that parts of the game are shallow. The pacing frustrated me at times, and again, I wish the whole experience was more condensed.

There’s just no way I can agree that the game is terrible, though. If it was terrible, I would’ve likely given up on it before an hour had passed, and we both spent at least 40 hours on this. I would have preferred a remake, but we can’t have both. For what it is, it exceeded my expectations.

This 8/10 review from Metacritic is pretty much spot on in it’s assessment of the game’s strong and weak points. The ending will definitely leave purists with a bad taste in their mouth, but the game does many things well, leading up to that point.

Spoiler:
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:48 pm

Progress update: I'm now about 27 hours in and (I'm assuming) I'm about to enter the end-game and climb to the surface.

Unlike Thimmy, my opinion of the game has gone down over the last 10 or so hours of gameplay. It feels like nearly all of the new content is fluff. Like for instance I just completed the 1 hour detour into the labs below Sector 7and all we really learned from that is that Shinra experiented on humans, which comes up later anyways so what was the point? Like that there are many instances where simple things take a lot longer than they ought to, seemingly just to make the game longer. I wish this energy would've been spent developing the characters and setting more. I liked the Jessie side-mission because it gave us more insights into Jessie, Biggs & Wedge. Wouldn't have minded more of that and less fluff.

Still the positive far outweighs the negative for me, and the game apparently ends strong and there's a big twist coming up that all the reviewers mentioned so looking forward to that.
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Post by Thimmy Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:13 am

I didn't mean to say that my impression improved as I progressed and experienced more of the game, but being able to look back at a larger portion of the game, gave me a different, more positive retro-perspective than I had initially. I definitely agree when it comes to criticism towards the padding, or "fluff" as you call it, but you and Rincon seemed to have quite positive impressions, quite early on. I wasn't immediately impressed by the game, myself. It looked great visually, but certain things just reminded me of the tragic mess that was FF15. I appreciate that they took the opportunity to flesh out the characters more, that seemed like the obvious thing to do since it's episodic. but I think it's to the detriment of the overall quality of the game that there's so little focus on the things that move the story on.

The needlessly drawn out parts were there all along, and there were more things that didn't appeal to me, along the way. But like you say, the positives far outweigh the negatives, and I didn't realize that until I'd gotten quite far along in the story. I really liked how they tackled the Shinra Building part of the game, for the most part.
Spoiler:
I wish the rest of the game was that focused. As for the ending, I don't know what to say about it. On one hand, I didn't like it at all - the actual ending is pretty nonsensical, but if I try to keep an open mind, I also recognize that the direction of the story from that point on has a lot of potential, so long as I prepare myself for something that may be quite different, rather than true to the original story.
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Post by rincon Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:42 pm

Absolutely loving it. Couldn't play all week because of work but got back into it today. 30 hours in just finished Chapter 12. The level of immersion and character work just makes this chapter so much better. Really loving this game.

Spoiler:
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:34 pm

Yeah the combat system gets big props from me too. It feels both new and classic at the same time, which I think is a tough line to walk in but they pulled it off great. The weapons upgrade system is great too, instead of discarding old weapons each one keeps adding new depth to it.

Progress update: I thought I was about to enter the end-game, but instead chapter 14 was a bunch of sidequests, that I just finished. About to climb the wall at last.
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Post by Thimmy Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:53 pm

If you are wondering whether it’s best to take the stairs, the elevator, or the escalator in the Shinra building, they’re all completely optional. I wouldn’t recommend taking the stairs, though Razz
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:38 pm

Finished the game yesterday. It ended very strongly, it was hard to put down from the moment you start climbing the wall to Shinra's HQ. They got a ton of things right, and the few things that they didn't are very easy to forgive (mostly the dragging in the middle chapters). It made me feel like a kid again while also being able to making it feel challenging enough and new. I loved the atmosphere of Midgar, and how they made it feel like a lived-in world where your actions have consequences. They pulled off the weapons, materia, and combat system great and created memorable boss fights. I like how they didn't stick to the script and tried to reimagine the game rather than remake it. Sometimes they got it right and sometimes wrong, but I think that's a decision that took guts as the fanbase could have easily hated the changes, but it paid off (for now at least). 9/10

Thoughts on the last 3rd

Spoiler:


Thoughts about the ending and story changes
Spoiler:

Other than specific thoughts on the ending, my main complaint with the game is that the sidequests in the middle section felt diverged from the story. While it was great to see the Midgar world expanded, it would've been better to use them as a chance to flesh out Tifa and Barett more, as they did with Aerith, Wedge, Biggs & Jessie. That would've improved the middle section significantly.


Now that I wrote all that I think I'm coming off as far too negative, so just wanted to reiterate that I hugely enjoyed this and think it's a fantastic game. Just had more to say about the things I didn't like than those that I did, I guess. Excited to see where it goes from here, hopefully they don't keep us waiting 5 more years for the next installment. Might give it a shot in hard mode at some point, I thought I did every sidequest I could but it turns out I missed a lot of stuff.
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Post by rincon Fri May 01, 2020 1:22 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Finished the game yesterday. It ended very strongly, it was hard to put down from the moment you start climbing the wall to Shinra's HQ. They got a ton of things right, and the few things that they didn't are very easy to forgive (mostly the dragging in the middle chapters). It made me feel like a kid again while also being able to making it feel challenging enough and new. I loved the atmosphere of Midgar, and how they made it feel like a lived-in world where your actions have consequences. They pulled off the weapons, materia, and combat system great and created memorable boss fights. I like how they didn't stick to the script and tried to reimagine the game rather than remake it. Sometimes they got it right and sometimes wrong, but I think that's a decision that took guts as the fanbase could have easily hated the changes, but it paid off (for now at least). 9/10

Same thoughts.

I'm at Shinra HQ towards the end of chapter 16 with ~45 hours so far. I really want to go and finish it and at the same time I don't want it to end. The HQ is awesome, really cool take on this part of the game so far.

I'm enjoying the combat so much that I'm doing all the 4 star battle sim stuff before moving on, even if I really want to see the story. Playing around with the weapon upgrade and materia setups is really good.

chapter 16 spoilers:
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Post by Thimmy Fri May 01, 2020 2:13 pm

I appreciate the dark, dystopian environment when it serves as a contrast to other parts of the game. Like BC pointed out, I missed the brutal part that occurs in the Shinra building in the original, for instance. They seem to have opted for a generally more cheerful and uplifting atmosphere in the remake, so I suppose they succeeded in appealing to your tastes in that respect at least.

Agreed that the movie you refer to looked absolutely gorgeous, but that’s clearly pre-rendered and I highly doubt the outside environment will look that clean and crisp.
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Post by Firenze Fri May 01, 2020 11:43 pm

finished it like 2 days ago

very much enjoyed it, after FFXV this is what I consider my first real FF, very pleased, XV left me super cautious, I did skip a lot of late side stuff, clocked it at 10 mins shy of 40 hours.

some stuff went over my head, read up on it afterwards, somehow I'd remained mostly unspoiled all of these years on 7 or had just forgotten (watched Advent Children as a kid) most that I did know

combat was super fun, mildly challenging which is a blessing after XV

good pacing, likable characters, fun boss fights, anime tropes out the ass, what's not to like? looking forward to the sequel

oh, and shout out to the slums, obviously they aren't huge towns but they felt a good size and that was such a big complaint of mine in 15

Wall Market is great. Thinking of playing 10 after Nier Automata.
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