"Cruijff" football hugely overrated

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BarcaLearning
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Post by Unique Thu May 09, 2019 12:58 am

ajax bossed spurs in the first leg and bossed them in the first half tonight. but as soon as spurs got the first goal they let the pressure get to them. not being hard on ajax because they are a young team but teams like PSG liverpool juve and barca have also folded under pressure this season. people say klopp is one of the best managers in the world and klopps way of playing is to put other teams under as much pressure as possible.

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Post by Unique Thu May 09, 2019 1:01 am

this is why the EPL is the best lge in the world. teams like palace go to city and put pressure on them and get a win.
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Post by titosantill Thu May 09, 2019 1:05 am

Unique wrote:
titosantill wrote:@unique i don't know if that's true. and if it is true then it means said players aren't that great to begin with. if you can only boss when odds are always in your favor, but you fold anytime pressure comes about , then it says a lot about your abilities as an athlete

there are teams that get faced with enormous pressure and don't fold. ajax are a relatively young side, they can be given a pass. but if you're only the boss when odds are always in your favor, and fold at any provocation/pressure there's nothing boss about that
tell me one team that dont fold under pressure. this season we played leicester at home and went 1-0 up and they went at us and put us under pressure and got a 1-1 draw. and last night we were 3-0 down v barca and went at them with high pressure and beat them 4-0. who are the better team leicester or barca.


juve put madrid under pressure last year didn't they? also those teams that defend like their lives depend on it, with a man down and still win, like that chelsea team, they too where put under a lot of pressure. being put under pressure doesn't automatically mean you should fold. there are games where a comeback might happen, and a goal occurs and it sucks the air out of that comeback
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Post by Unique Thu May 09, 2019 1:20 am

titosantill wrote:
Unique wrote:
titosantill wrote:@unique i don't know if that's true. and if it is true then it means said players aren't that great to begin with. if you can only boss when odds are always in your favor, but you fold anytime pressure comes about , then it says a lot about your abilities as an athlete

there are teams that get faced with enormous pressure and don't fold. ajax are a relatively young side, they can be given a pass. but if you're only the boss when odds are always in your favor, and fold at any provocation/pressure there's nothing boss about that
tell me one team that dont fold under pressure. this season we played leicester at home and went 1-0 up and they went at us and put us under pressure and got a 1-1 draw. and last night we were 3-0 down v barca and went at them with high pressure and beat them 4-0. who are the better team leicester or barca.


juve put madrid under pressure last year didn't they? also those teams that defend like their lives depend on it, with a man down and still win, like that chelsea team, they too where put under a lot of pressure. being put under pressure doesn't automatically mean you should fold. there are games where a comeback might happen, and a goal occurs and it sucks the air out of that comeback
im not saying all teams that get under pressure lose. im saying that any team can win if they put enough pressure on. people talk about how this and that team are better but didnt win. but pressure is the biggest factor when a better team loses. liverpool have got to 2 UCL finals in the last 2 years with henderson gini and milner playing most games. they didnt step up and match other teams for quality they brought better players down to there level and out worked them. the barca MF are better than the liverpool MF but the liverpool MF out worked them and put them under pressure and they folded.
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Post by titosantill Thu May 09, 2019 1:49 am

oh okay, i get what you're saying. that's true , but a lot of times you just don't have the legs or stamina to apply such pressure. i mean look at my beloved madrid squad, i don't even want to talk about us right now. but yeah it takes work, and players to all buy into it, and the understanding that it can also backfire. but i get your overall point
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Post by Unique Thu May 09, 2019 2:06 am

titosantill wrote:oh okay, i get what you're saying. that's true , but a lot of times you just don't have the legs or stamina to apply such pressure. i mean look at my beloved madrid squad, i don't even want to talk about us right now. but yeah it takes work, and players to all buy into it, and the understanding that it can also backfire. but i get your overall point
yes your right 100%. to do it you have to be very very fit. when klopp first came we used to run out of legs after 60mins. thats why we used to give away late goals.
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Post by alexjanosik Thu May 09, 2019 3:05 am

Cruyff football is not overrated. Its the best way to play the game imo. Subjective but also the most beautiful way to play the game. Current Barca most certainly dont play Cruyff football. We play a dour 4-4-2. I cant remember the last triangular passing sequence we did. That is how far away we are from the Cruyff way of playing the game.
Ajax play a variant of the Cruyff game. Their game is based on creating positional superiority, movement and triangular passing to advance the ball. The players also have a lot of positional freedom which is another element of the Cruyff way. An example that I observed was how all 3 of their forwards would attack from the same side creating overloads. And they would do it multiple times through a match. It was quite unusual and not something that is seen often.

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Post by Ion Creanga Thu May 09, 2019 9:35 am

But the fact that some people look at Cruijffian influence just through Valverdeball is short-sighted.

Players like Busquets, Alba, Sergi Roberto, Messi, Artur are especially formed to work on that system. The moment they have to defend, they're weak.

These numpties couldn't even notice that Liverpool has a corner in the 80 th minute ffs. Kindergarten mistake. Just delete the club, once Messi retires please.

It surprises me that some don't see any corelation between the way Ajax, Barca and City lost given their identity and defensive flaws
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Post by zigra Thu May 09, 2019 10:02 am

Cruijff was actually pragmatic and all about winning. The "beautiful" game is just what he chose as the most effective way to play in most situations.
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Post by Winter is Coming Thu May 09, 2019 11:44 am

Yes and do remind me how many CL Juve and Atleti have won with these flawless defensive players?

I mean we also saw your defensive performance against Ajax unfortunate for you that you couldn't take advantage of weak defence.
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Post by danyjr Thu May 09, 2019 2:30 pm

Notwithstanding the fact that Barcelona don't play Total Football anymore, the amount of butthurt in this thread is quite amusing Laughing

Same with the hate for Guardiola, it seems like a lot of people love and wait for him to fail. Specifically certain fans of a certain club whose team's successes are already forgotten despite three Champions League trophies in a row whereas everyone will forever talk about Pep-era Barcelona even though his fame came in part due to an Øvrebø magnum opus in refereeing and maybe even some cash up Uefa's pockets. Them and also Hans and Futbol who are just sad their teams look like trash ever since he left them.

Get some aloe vera or menthol or something down that backside asap lads. It is not healthy to live like this for this long.
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Post by Doc Thu May 09, 2019 2:44 pm

It's not healthy to always talk shit about Dembele either but here we are...
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Post by danyjr Thu May 09, 2019 2:47 pm

Doc wrote:It's not healthy to always talk shit about Dembele either but here we are...
Touché Laughing

I will stop when he is sold to Betis for a loan + option to buy for €25m.
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Post by Doc Thu May 09, 2019 3:03 pm

Bet Hans would talk about his "genius" there too while he spends half the time injured and old man Joaquin keeps outshining (:
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Post by farfan Thu May 09, 2019 3:15 pm

danyjr wrote:Notwithstanding the fact that Barcelona don't play Total Football anymore, the amount of butthurt in this thread is quite amusing Laughing

Same with the hate for Guardiola, it seems like a lot of people love and wait for him to fail. Specifically certain fans of a certain club whose team's successes are already forgotten despite three Champions League trophies in a row whereas everyone will forever talk about Pep-era Barcelona even though his fame came in part due to an Øvrebø magnum opus in refereeing and maybe even some cash up Uefa's pockets. Them and also Hans and Futbol who are just sad their teams look like trash ever since he left them.

Get some aloe vera or menthol or something down that backside asap lads. It is not healthy to live like this for this long.


It's weird how fixated some of you are on the notion that people  will forget Madrid's three-peat. Laughing Whatever helps you cope with a rival's historic achievement I guess.

Madrid fans and neutrals like myself won't forget, that's for sure.
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Post by danyjr Thu May 09, 2019 3:45 pm

Doc wrote:Bet Hans would talk about his "genius" there too while he spends half the time injured and old man Joaquin keeps outshining (:
The kid has pace and is very ambidextrous, but genius he definitely isn't. In fact he is one of the dumbest football players I've seen in life after Theo Walcott.
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Post by Valkyrja Thu May 09, 2019 3:46 pm

farfan wrote:
danyjr wrote:Notwithstanding the fact that Barcelona don't play Total Football anymore, the amount of butthurt in this thread is quite amusing Laughing

Same with the hate for Guardiola, it seems like a lot of people love and wait for him to fail. Specifically certain fans of a certain club whose team's successes are already forgotten despite three Champions League trophies in a row whereas everyone will forever talk about Pep-era Barcelona even though his fame came in part due to an Øvrebø magnum opus in refereeing and maybe even some cash up Uefa's pockets. Them and also Hans and Futbol who are just sad their teams look like trash ever since he left them.

Get some aloe vera or menthol or something down that backside asap lads. It is not healthy to live like this for this long.


It's weird how fixated some of you are on the notion that people  will forget Madrid's three-peat. Laughing Whatever helps you cope with a rival's historic achievement I guess.

Madrid fans and neutrals like myself won't forget, that's for sure.


It looks like he hasn't forgotten either Laughing
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Post by BarcaLearning Thu May 09, 2019 7:44 pm

The recent games definitely showed how football has evolved though with the pressure Unqiue mentioned, generated from the EPL teams tempo and relentlessness, and how when a team with everyone doing their task properly full on, the effect it can have, the whole greater than the sum. We havent really seen these kind of results and the victory over the possession styles teams so clearly in such a short amount of time.

Just wonder if football is gonna move more in this direction, does it even have a name? As always football keep evolving, and u just cant stop loving it Very Happy
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Post by Ion Creanga Thu May 09, 2019 8:27 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:The recent games definitely showed how football has evolved though with the pressure Unqiue mentioned, generated from the EPL teams tempo and relentlessness, and how when a team with everyone doing their task properly full on, the effect it can have, the whole greater than the sum. We havent really seen these kind of results and the victory over the possession styles teams so clearly in such a short amount of time.

Just wonder if football is gonna move more in this direction, does it even have a name? As always football keep evolving, and u just cant stop loving it Very Happy


I think the improvements in physicality make this posession style harder to impose. Footballers nowadays are much faster and stronger in 1-on-1 duels, they cover much more space and leave very little room for mistakes such as slightly misplaced passes and first-touches.
Usually the best footballers at this quick-passing style are also shorter and slimmer, so it will obviously be a disadvantage against physical teams. However, as long as they can keep posession and not come under pressure, they're fine.
In my view, the all-arounder teams are superior to the posession specialists, given the same player's value. They have much more weapons in their arsenal, they don't rely only on one type of football. They could play counter-attacks, posession, long-balls, wing-play and crosses, long shots from 2nd balls, can rely on free-kicks and corners etc.
The best example for me as an all-around specialists were Heynckes Bayern and Zidane's Madrid. They could score literally from every possible procedure, while being comfortable at absorbing pressure and defending when needed.
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Post by jibers Thu May 09, 2019 9:44 pm

All you need to do is watch Barca for 5 minutes and you would see they don't play Cruyff football.

They play like a shite Italian team depending on a Trequartista who spends most of hi time walking like he just came straight from a siesta.

Cruyff Football with a 442 rofl

As for Ajax, yea, ovverated a squad that cost less than Bernado Silva...

I Mean Pep is only got 100 points with it...

I suppose the best football is the trash that Simeone and Allegri play because they both won the CL...O wait... both got embarrassed and Juve got humbled by "Cruyff Football".

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Post by BarcaLearning Thu May 09, 2019 9:50 pm

Yep, even Pep's Barca had big weaknesses, he was just revolutionary at the time together with the best talents, as time passes, teams adapted to it, and they never had plan B, so once they are stuck they cannot play another way. Its always better to be able to switch and have different options so that when countered, u can do something else.

I think Germany NT tradtionally is another example, they are more often than not all rounder teams, good on the ball, good defense, physical, able to play high and low, etc.

Of course its all easier said than done, U need the players who can do that. Man C probably only can one way Razz So they wont always be able to everything.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu May 09, 2019 9:51 pm

Didn't have Spurs more possession than Ajax? Ajax were parking the bus for long stretches of the game.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu May 09, 2019 9:51 pm

Yeah @jibers, honestly Klopp's Liverpool plays a more Cruyffian football than Barca do
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Post by rincon Thu May 09, 2019 9:54 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Didn't have Spurs more possession than Ajax? Ajax were parking the bus for long stretches of the game.

I mean we had more possession than Ajax in one of the matches. We got scored on on the counter.
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Post by Ion Creanga Thu May 09, 2019 10:08 pm

jibers wrote:0. All you need to do is watch Barca for 5 minutes and you would see they don't play Cruyff football.

They play like a shite Italian team depending on a Trequartista who spends most of hi time walking like he just came straight from a siesta.

Cruyff Football with a 442 rofl



1.As for Ajax, yea, ovverated a squad that cost less than Bernado Silva...

2.I Mean Pep is only got 100 points with it...


3.I suppose the best football is the trash that Simeone and Allegri play because they both won the CL...O wait... both got embarrassed and Juve got humbled by "Cruyff Football".
0. You have a small sample size, obviously

1. Tottenham costed probably less, i don't get the point. Overrated squad when they were few seconds away from UCL final rofl

2. Conte did 93 points in Premier League with Chelsea, Klopp did over 90, and they both didn't spent Pep's gazilions

3. Well, the trash football that Allegri and Simeone play, got them  into 4 UCL finals, with limited budget. Simeone was 2 times inches away from winning. While Pep gets beaten by almost every decent team in the knock-outs in UCL in the last 6 years, with much bigger resources Laughing
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Post by jibers Thu May 09, 2019 10:18 pm

Ion Creanga wrote:
jibers wrote:All you need to do is watch Barca for 5 minutes and you would see they don't play Cruyff football.

They play like a shite Italian team depending on a Trequartista who spends most of hi time walking like he just came straight from a siesta.

Cruyff Football with a 442 rofl


1.As for Ajax, yea, ovverated a squad that cost less than Bernado Silva...

2.I Mean Pep is only got 100 points with it...


3.I suppose the best football is the trash that Simeone and Allegri play because they both won the CL...O wait... both got embarrassed and Juve got humbled by "Cruyff Football".


1. Tottenham costed probably less, i don't get the point. Overrated squad when they were few seconds away from UCL final rofl

2. Conte did 93 points in Premier League with Chelsea, Klopp did over 90, and they both didn't spent Pep's gazilions

3. Well, the trash football that Allegri and Simeone play, got them  into 4 UCL finals, with limited budget. Simeone was 2 times inches away from winning. While Pep gets beaten by almost every decent team in the knock-outs in UCL in the last 6 years, with much bigger resources Laughing


1. Spusr squad cost €313m little less than Bayern Laughing Ajax cost €95m rofl Over 3 times more!!! Laughing Because cruyff football is the reason they lost that game. They should have won with a squad that cost less than a 1/3rd?! Cruff football was the reason they went so far isnrtead of playing like cowards like Juve under Allegri.

2. Conte got like 102 points irrc wit Juve. Juve have won that joke of a league 8 years in a row! 0 competition. Pep's net spend is only about 50 mill more than uniteds but I guess we should be getting 90 points then Laughing There is a reason pep is the most sought after coacxh probably in history.

3. Simeone has a big budegt and great players yet his team still plays like trash. Atletico aren't under dogs anymore. His football is trash and all he does is put his team in the 18 yard box which is why Juve just pumped ball into the box to Ronaldo (your only strategy).

I mean I guess SAF is a bum then because he almost always outspent all the teams we got knocked out by and he won 2 cls in 25 years! Laughing
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