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Post by titosantill on Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:01 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Zidane likes to play with two strikers/scorers. Regardless of what people think... CR was playing CF right next to Benzema during ZZ's years.


i don't know about this. its always been a 4 3 3, more than zidane liking to play with two scorers. what's he going to do, put cr on the bench? or play cr left wing and put isco asensio james none of which are center forwards as the 9?

if we play a 4 4 2, then we would need yet another forward in the event of injuries. and even if we decide if one of the 2 forwards gets injured we would then shift to 4 3 3/4 2 3 1, you're placing a lot of burden on the none injured forward. i just don't know if zidane is ready to go outside the 4 3 3 just yet ....and its not like he had any choice but to play cristiano and benzema. cristiano always wanted to play down the left, so he wasn't going to put hip up top and play a winger or a midfielder on the left channel

you make it sound like he had an array of choices to go with. cristiano has never wanted to play in that 9 position and he has made that clear himself

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Post by titosantill on Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:14 pm

@themadridone, all these are just guesstimates- this is what we know; jovic is a good striker, but he's young, this is his first breakout season, and he's coming from frankfurt, its very easy for him to be convinced to be a backup. its similar to mariano (not saying they have the same type of abilities, but the situations have some similarities here and there)

another thing we do know is, even with benzema out of form, under zidane, he was an unquestioned starter an we went out of our way to bring people in who wouldn't really pressure him. now that he's playing alright (compared to the last 2 and a half years), i just don't see zidane bringing anyone to automatically bench him....

once again, that's if we are even considering to get jovic. as i said, these days i keep my fingers crossed when it comes to transfers, until i see the player hold up the jersey alongside flo at a press conference
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:47 pm

Yeah but Zidane had CR to bail him out with goals no matter what. I would be surprised if Zidane looks at things with the same mindset. Your striker if he isn't scoring and winning you games will get you sacked, unless we develop somekind of proficient second scorer.

And yes to hedge his chances on scoring it's likely we see variations of a two strikers system, whether in the form of 442, 4231, 4411,4312... Formations that allow you to have a numbers in the box. Well, it's not like we have the choice lol


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Post by vanDEEZ on Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:47 pm

Well, in his first season it was mostly a 4-3-3 with Ronaldo spearheading the attack and either Bale or Asensio drifting centrally beneath Ron-Benz.

In his second season it was the Zidiamond with Ron-Benz ahead of Isco.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:02 pm

Zidane when he came to Madrid just ripped off Ancelotti's playbook. He went straight back to what Carli was doing, even playing Kroos in front of the defense until that flopped and he realized Casemiro was needed. Unlike Benitez he did not want to fix something that was not broken.

I think Cristiano conditions your tactical approach as a manager no matter what so I want to see Zidane expressing himself without CR as a coach. His first game back was a 4231/433 hybrid. With Castilla he was running a 4231. With some of the signings he is rumoured to want, I would be surprised if we are not running a wing dominant system.

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Post by sportsczy on Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:15 pm

Back to "CR bailed ZZ out" and "Ramos bailed ZZ out" and "ZZ just copied the same tactics as Carlo (he didn't)" etc.  Stick to the agenda no matter what history tells you.  Sigh.

In any case, ZZ just made a statement of intent for Pogba and, to a lesser degree, Mbappe.

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Post by Doc on Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:01 pm

I mean, I wouldn't use the word bailed but Ronaldo's goals and sheer presence were ridiculously essential for Zidane. Tactics and strategy are moot when your forwards don't score and Ronaldo ensured whatever Zidane was trying could have been done knowing he had a legendary scorer at the end of it.

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Post by sportsczy on Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:23 pm

We sucked pretty hard under Rafa with CR.  Even under Carlo, we couldn't win the league and CR was there.

We almost won the league in ZZ's first half season and won La Liga in his second.  Other than 1 with Mourinho, these are the only two times we've won the league with CR in his nine seasons at Real Madrid.

It's not a coincidence that Mourinho and ZZ are the only two managers that were able to do that.  Very different ways of doing it...  but they both excel at their craft.

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Post by futbol_bill on Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:31 pm

@titosantill wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:Zidane likes to play with two strikers/scorers. Regardless of what people think... CR was playing CF right next to Benzema during ZZ's years.


i don't know about this. its always been a 4 3 3, more than zidane liking to play with two scorers. what's he going to do, put cr on the bench? or play cr left wing and put isco asensio james none of which are center forwards as the 9?

if we play a 4 4 2, then we would need yet another forward in the event of injuries. and even if we decide if one of the 2 forwards gets injured we would then shift to 4 3 3/4 2 3 1, you're placing a lot of burden on the none injured forward. i just don't know if zidane is ready to go outside the 4 3 3 just yet ....and its not like he had any choice but to play cristiano and benzema. cristiano always wanted to play down the left, so he wasn't going to put hip up top and play a winger or a midfielder on the left channel

you make it sound like he had an array of choices to go with. cristiano has never wanted to play in that 9 position and he has made that clear himself


Tito, you are either ignoring or forgetting who we have (currently). They already have assured Rodrygo will have a spot of team next year in addition to Vinicius, then you have the squad player in Lucas plus Zidane is already praising Asensio and saying how he wasn't properly played this year. So that's already 4 bench players plus Benz, whether he starts or not depends on who comes in. They are almost certain to bring in Hazard and he undoubtedly will start as either a LAM or just a pure AM. So in reality they are likely only looking at one forward whether it be to replace Benz as starter or play along side of Benz.

so assuming Hazard here and Jovic comes front line is Hazard, Benz, Jovic or
Hazard, Jovic, Vinicius / Asensio, and there will be
Vinicius / Asensio / Benz, Rodrygo, Lucas and possibly Isco as the bench strength.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:45 pm

Sorry Sports I did not want to hurt your feelings, I am just stating truths. Although I heard facts are like daggers

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Post by Thimmy on Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:08 pm

@sportsczy wrote:We sucked pretty hard under Rafa with CR.  Even under Carlo, we couldn't win the league and CR was there.

We almost won the league in ZZ's first half season and won La Liga in his second.  Other than 1 with Mourinho, these are the only two times we've won the league with CR in his nine seasons at Real Madrid.

It's not a coincidence that Mourinho and ZZ are the only two managers that were able to do that.  Very different ways of doing it...  but they both excel at their craft.


To be fair, the balance in quality between our's and Barcelona's teams has gradually shifted in our favor over time since CR joined us. I don't believe that's a coincidence. Carlo's league records weren't that great, to begin with. It's a miracle that we won the league during ZZ's second season. Thinking back to the first half of that league season, still brings back painful memories of having to actually watch it.
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Post by sportsczy on Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:20 pm

I disagree with that.  Messi-Neymar-Suarez, all in their prime, with Busquets-Rakitic-Iniesta/Thiago behind them.  Not to mention Pique, Alba and Umtiti keying the defense... and then you had their goalkeepers who were no slouches.  Only area of weakness was Rb as Alves was past it and the new ones are meh.

Barca had and, despite Neymar leaving, still has astounding talent.  Pep just maximized their superiority with the style he played.  Since he left, they're more direct.  

We never had a talent advantage imo.  We were just able to match their talent.  It was impossible to separate who had more riches given there were so many.  This season, we just don't match their talent.  Last season, we had talent in the top 11 but no depth.

Uncle Flo has let us slip in the talent department.  And then you're competing against the modern Barca, that's completely unforgiving.  And now with EPL and PSG in the fray, we can't just buy our way out of poor decisions...  we pay the full consequences.


Last edited by sportsczy on Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by titosantill on Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:40 pm

I agree with sportsczy, we haven't had the better talent in years. We have been able to match them here and there especially when mou had that stacked team. But better talent? Especially on offense? Nope
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Post by titosantill on Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:42 pm

I actually thought that was a typo from you thimmy when u said in our favor
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Post by Thimmy on Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:01 pm

@titosantill wrote:I actually thought that was a typo from you thimmy when u said in our favor


I honestly don't understand how one can disagree with that statement. Our overall quality has increased gradually since 2009. During the same time, Barca went from having arguably the best team of all time, to the relative crap they have today. Unlike them, our decline didn't start until just recently. So, are you guys saying that it's the other way around; Barca have gotten stronger, we've gotten worse since 2009? scratch If that's the case, then how have we been gaining on them in terms of achievements? Tactical superiority? Carlo and Zidane?
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Post by sportsczy on Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:20 pm

I'm just talking about talent... not better or worse.  Other than a handful of times where we matched them, Barca has had the better talent for a long long time.

We've won by playing better as a team in CL mostly (Barca have owned La Liga) and good management by Mou, Carlo and Zidane.  

League competition is a better yard stick for talent imo because you have to sustain it over 38 games.  Cup competitions allow you to overcome talent deficiencies through tactics and circumstances.  CL is the best yardstick in terms of measuring big game ability AND tactical adaptability (teams from other leagues play VERY differently).

I think Barca is very rigid tactically and they've had big game issues.  Messi has been really poor in elimination rounds of CL for a while too.

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Post by Nivash on Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:07 am

In everything, the material difference between Barca and Madrid in this era is Messi. He's the difference between a good, even world class team, and a fantasy/out of this world team. Beyond Messi, it's largely been equal, pendulum swinging either way every now and then.

In the CL winning seasons, our advantage came because we matched them in the starting 11, and had a better bench. At some point, Barca fell for their own La Masia trap, so they filled the team with every next big thing who had no business being anywhere other than the likes of Mallorca and Osasuna.

Arguably, our poor performance in the league has been because of motivation/mentality issues, not because of lack of talent.

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Post by Doc on Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:09 am

Only thing PSG is competing Madrid in is in how much more social media presence they have. All the money in the world, located in one of the most attractive cities in the world and yet, Real Madrid could and would still be the better choice for most players. Plus, you know, Zidane is here.

The most useless "big" club that has ever existed.

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Post by Valkyrja on Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:46 am

@Doc wrote:Only thing PSG is competing Madrid in is in how much more social media presence they have. All the money in the world, located in one of the most attractive cities in the world and yet, Real Madrid could and would still be the better choice for most players. Plus, you know, Zidane is here.

The most useless "big" club that has ever existed.


That has to be Citeh


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Post by vanDEEZ on Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:45 pm

City have at least won titles in a competitive league. PSG haven't done anything of note besides signing Mbappe and Neymar for disgusting amounts of money.
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Post by sportsczy on Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:00 pm

Yet, Barca and Madrid have tried (and failed) to sign Silva, Verratti, Marquinhos, Neymar, Cavani, Mbappe, Rabiot, Di Maria (Barca wanted him 2 years ago), etc.

All this bluster yet the facts go against everything you're saying.

IF the money was equal, players would come to Madrid.  But the money isn't equal...  and players go for money.

It's all about money.  Only reason players used to all come to Madrid was because of the money.  R9, Zidane, RVN, CR, Benzema, Kaka, etc all came here because we paid the most.  End of.

Stop with this romantic nonsense (other than for Spanish players) where footballers are going to forego finances because it's Real Madrid.

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Post by sportsczy on Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:48 pm

Eriksen looks very slow against Liverpool.

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Post by Doc on Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:08 pm

Out of all those players you mentioned, only Mbappe we know as a fact Madrid actually attempted to sign and that was when he was at Monaco. We've denied trying to sign Neymar on numerous occasions, you know, another fact. We have no factual data suggesting we've been linked with the rest of those names w.r.t Real Madrid. I cannot speak on Barca's behalf though.

When PSG does something a little more relevant than win most followed club on social media, I'll give them any sort of credit.

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Post by sportsczy on Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:33 pm

Of course we've tried to sign Neymar.  Come on. All last summer and this summer and next summer... etc. He's about to sign an extension at PSG btw.

Barca tried to pay record fees to get Rabiot, Verratti, Silva and Marquinhos.  They failed with all 4... and to boot, Neymar left for Paris.

You're not suggesting that Barca is less of a destination than Madrid, are you?

I can actually go down the list of more if you'd like.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:36 pm

in what universe have barca tried to pay a "record" fee for Rabiot?

sorry Sports, but sometimes you seem like you are pulling shit out of thin air to make your points, and what your "insider" friends tell you is not relevant

i would like to see evidences of that world record offer Barcelona made for Rabiot, which was then turned down by PSG. there are enough serious journalists in this sports who would have surely reported on such an event.

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Post by Doc on Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:36 pm

Barcelona offered a world record bid for Rabiot? When?

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