Brexit: Should the UK stay or go?

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Post by Pedram on Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:18 pm

So another election in December, thoughts?

Think Tory will secure a majority this time, Remain voters are equally divided between Labour and LibDems while most Leavers are backing Boris Johnson, surely he can't be worse than Theresa May in campaigning?

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:53 pm

The only hope Remain have is for Labour and Lib Dems to split the seats between them and not compete with each other. Fat chance of that happening though.

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Post by iftikhar on Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:06 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:The only hope Remain have is for Labour and Lib Dems to split the seats between them and not compete with each other. Fat chance of that happening though.
It's bugging me for some time. In most FPTP countries (India, Bangladesh Razz etc.) have seat-sharing agreements.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:12 am

@Unique wrote:
@VivaStPauli wrote:Unique getting his very own Dolchstoßlegende, instant classic.
thats another reason i want out of the EU. what the hell is that crazy looking B. all the other letters are normal and you have to stick that crazy looking B in there. :facepalm:


I would like to say "Tschüß!" but you can't manage to get out apparently

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Post by Art Morte on Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:15 am

Labour's been a disaster and Corbyn is an ineffective, uncharismatic and opinion-dividing leader that should be the leader only in a minor left-wing party, not Labour. They will lose remain-voters to Lib Dems; we'll see how many leave-voters go to the Brexit party instead of the Tories, but probably fewer.
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Post by iftikhar on Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:58 am

Too many factions in Labor. Corbyn is as guilty as those who oppose him. The Labor reeks of years (generations, perhaps) of neglect and manipulation.

In their defense, all the so-called Social Democrats are in free fall. Perhaps they have run their course.
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Post by Unique on Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:01 pm

i wonder if corbyn still keeps in touch with his mates from the IRA.

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Post by Unique on Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:52 pm

Every vote for the Liberal Democrats in the upcoming general election is a vote to "stop Brexit" and land the UK with a £50bn "Remain bonus", party leader Jo Swinson has declared.

Launching the Liberal Democrats' campaign for the 12 December poll at an event in Westminster, Ms Swinson said the stances of the Conservatives and Labour on the issue "merge into one".

"Red or blue, it's all Brexit. It's all bad for our country," she said.
Outlining her party's pitch to voters, she said the Lib Dems would "stop Brexit and build a brighter future".

Ms Swinson said: "The Liberal Democrats are the only party standing up to stop Brexit and build a brighter future for the UK.

so this women is saying she will just ignore the brexit vote and the people and just do as she likes if she wins. and these people wonder why people go on line and make threats to kill them. but the funny part is they act like they dont understand why it happens Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:58 pm

... So you're saying it's totally reasonable to kill someone over a political disagreement?

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Post by Unique on Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:28 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:... So you're saying it's totally reasonable to kill someone over a political disagreement?
no. but if you treat people the way she intends to treat people you have to accept the backlash from it. the funny thing is they blame boris johnson for them getting abuse. like when i hear johnson say things like the surrender bill i have to laugh at it. but when i hear this women say she will just stop brexit if she wins i feel strong rage. no jo its not what boris says that makes people hate you its what you say. Laughing

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Post by Art Morte on Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:34 pm

It's a general election, parties and politicians are - and should be - free to make any promises and political declarations they want. Up to the people to vote for / against them.
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Post by Unique on Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:51 pm

@Art Morte wrote:It's a general election, parties and politicians are - and should be - free to make any promises and political declarations they want. Up to the people to vote for / against them.
thats true but as you know the world has its fair sher of crazy people and if you are gonna tell them she will just fuck them over and ignore the vote she should know its gonna upset people. you reap what you sow as they say.

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Post by Unique on Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:52 pm

can she even do that though. she is hoping all the people that voted stay will vote for her just to stay in the EU.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:13 pm

@Unique wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:... So you're saying it's totally reasonable to kill someone over a political disagreement?
no. but if you treat people the way she intends to treat people you have to accept the backlash from it. the funny thing is they blame boris johnson for them getting abuse. like when i hear johnson say things like the surrender bill i have to laugh at it. but when i hear this women say she will just stop brexit if she wins i feel strong rage. no jo its not what boris says that makes people hate you its what you say. Laughing

So you're saying that threats to kill someone are just "backlash" and she should just take it?

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Post by Unique on Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:21 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@Unique wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:... So you're saying it's totally reasonable to kill someone over a political disagreement?
no. but if you treat people the way she intends to treat people you have to accept the backlash from it. the funny thing is they blame boris johnson for them getting abuse. like when i hear johnson say things like the surrender bill i have to laugh at it. but when i hear this women say she will just stop brexit if she wins i feel strong rage. no jo its not what boris says that makes people hate you its what you say. Laughing

So you're saying that threats to kill someone are just "backlash" and she should just take it?
no. im saying if she is willing to fuck people over and form i dictatorship government then she cant complane when she upsets the crazy people. what does she expect ffs. does she think she can do what she wants and people will just bend over and take it. i would never send threats to her and i dont think its right for anyone to do that but she has to know that it will happen. and she should not be blaming johnson for it.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:29 pm

Unique you said "so this women is saying she will just ignore the brexit vote and the people and just do as she likes if she wins. and these people wonder why people go on line and make threats to kill them."

Which you then followed up with "if you treat people the way she intends to treat people you have to accept the backlash from it."

You're completely excusing their behavior and rationalizing it. I'm pretty sure that if you said something someone considered outlandish and you then received a death threat you wouldn't just go" oh, well what I said made some people mad so it's ok, only to be expected " and instead you would try to resolve it.

Also dictatorship government Laughing Laughing Laughing are you serious man? If she wins an election how is it a dictatorship? An election that btw would be binding unlike the brexit vote

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Post by Unique on Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:43 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Unique you said "so this women is saying she will just ignore the brexit vote and the people and just do as she likes if she wins. and these people wonder why people go on line and make threats to kill them."

Which you then followed up with "if you treat people the way she intends to treat people you have to accept the backlash from it."

You're completely excusing their behavior and rationalizing it. I'm pretty sure that if you said something someone considered outlandish and you then received a death threat you wouldn't just go" oh, well what I said made some people mad so it's ok, only to be expected " and instead you would try to resolve it.

Also dictatorship government Laughing Laughing Laughing are you serious man? If she wins an election how is it a dictatorship? An election that btw would be binding unlike the brexit vote
im not excusing anything im just saying if you do what she intends to do then she should know this will happen. also if she were to ignore the peoples vote and and do what she wants and not the people then that is what dictators do.

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Post by Unique on Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:46 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Unique you said "so this women is saying she will just ignore the brexit vote and the people and just do as she likes if she wins. and these people wonder why people go on line and make threats to kill them."

Which you then followed up with "if you treat people the way she intends to treat people you have to accept the backlash from it."

You're completely excusing their behavior and rationalizing it. I'm pretty sure that if you said something someone considered outlandish and you then received a death threat you wouldn't just go" oh, well what I said made some people mad so it's ok, only to be expected " and instead you would try to resolve it.

Also dictatorship government Laughing Laughing Laughing are you serious man? If she wins an election how is it a dictatorship? An election that btw would be binding unlike the brexit vote
how is the brexit vote not binding. they put it to the vote and people voted to leave and any politician that says i dont care what the people voted is a dictator.

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Post by VivaStPauli on Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:06 pm

Because the modus of the vote literally was a non-binding vote.

Either way, "leave" won by a very tiny margin, and you could make a point that a lot of leave-voters felt quite ill-informed a few weeks after the dust settled; also leaving the EU has proved more complex than many have anticipated, so I don't think it's as heinous as you put it to have some other kind of vote on it.

It's clearly going to have a massive price tag, nothing wrong with questioning it. Also, Brexit is pretty permanent for one very close vote. If Labour won tomorrow with 51% of the vote, would you like to spend the rest of your life with Corbyn as PM?

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Post by Unique on Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:11 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:Because the modus of the vote literally was a non-binding vote.

Either way, "leave" won by a very tiny margin, and you could make a point that a lot of leave-voters felt quite ill-informed a few weeks after the dust settled; also leaving the EU has proved more complex than many have anticipated, so I don't think it's as heinous as you put it to have some other kind of vote on it.

It's clearly going to have a massive price tag, nothing wrong with questioning it. Also, Brexit is pretty permanent for one very close vote. If Labour won tomorrow with 51% of the vote, would you like to spend the rest of your life with Corbyn as PM?
how is it non binding. they put the vote to the people. the people voted leave. its very simple tbh. i tell you one thing for sure though if the vote was to stay that would have been the last we heard of it.

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Post by VivaStPauli on Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:18 pm

There's a constitutional and legal difference between a binding and a non-binding plebiscite (yes technically the UK doesn't have a constitution, but you do have precedent, and the Magna Carta) - and the Brexit vote was a non-binding one.
Not even sure there's legal precedent in the UK for a binding plebiscite. Never heard of one.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:28 pm

@Unique wrote:im not excusing anything im just saying if you do what she intends to do then she should know this will happen. also if she were to ignore the peoples vote and and do what she wants and not the people then that is what dictators do.

You're putting the blame for those actions firmly in her hands as opposed to the crazies that would do someone else harm over thinking differently. It's similar to blaming the rape victim for dressing revealingly.

If she wins an election (which is not going to happen anyways) on the explicit promise that she will end Brexit, then is it not the new will of the people that Brexit ends? Things clearly change in 3 years

It was also 100% non binding, has been from the very beginning. Article from 2016 before the ref saying the same: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-legally-binding-brexit-lisbon-cameron-sovereign-parliament


Last edited by BarrileteCosmico on Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:32 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-legally-binding-brexit-lisbon-cameron-sovereign-parliament)

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Post by Unique on Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:02 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@Unique wrote:im not excusing anything im just saying if you do what she intends to do then she should know this will happen. also if she were to ignore the peoples vote and and do what she wants and not the people then that is what dictators do.

You're putting the blame for those actions firmly in her hands as opposed to the crazies that would do someone else harm over thinking differently. It's similar to blaming the rape victim for dressing revealingly.

If she wins an election (which is not going to happen anyways) on the explicit promise that she will end Brexit, then is it not the new will of the people that Brexit ends? Things clearly change in 3 years

It was also 100% non binding, has been from the very beginning. Article from 2016 before the ref saying the same: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-legally-binding-brexit-lisbon-cameron-sovereign-parliament
im not blaming the rape victim for how they dress but i look at it a bit like this.

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Post by VivaStPauli on Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:08 pm

I don't think anybody is disagreeing with throwing a rapist out a window, or what's your point?

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Post by Unique on Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:22 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:I don't think anybody is disagreeing with throwing a rapist out a window, or what's your point?
read the posts and watch the vid and you will see my point.

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Post by VivaStPauli on Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:36 pm

I did, and I don't.

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