Who will be the Democrats' presidential candidate against Trump?

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Post by Unique on Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:28 pm

Looks like it's another trump victory lads.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:43 pm

You're getting stuck on the names. Any of Biden, Pete, Klobuchar, Steyer, or Yang could do. The important thing is to avoid a McGovern moment. To win an election you need swing voters. Extremists repel them. As we have now seen again.

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Post by Freeza on Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:01 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:You're getting stuck on the names. Any of Biden, Pete, Klobuchar, Steyer, or Yang could do. The important thing is to avoid a McGovern moment. To win an election you need swing voters. Extremists repel them. As we have now seen again.


And I think you’re too caught up in watching left/centrist/right as if it’s the only way to swing voters.

Bernie can clearly swing voters in the swing states Hillary lost. I don’t see why not. Farmers in Penn as an example. Trump has failed them a lot, and I feel Bernie will be able to swing them more than a centrist, who’s basically just someone sucking off Wall Street’s teet

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Post by Young Kaz on Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:21 pm

@Freeza wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:You're getting stuck on the names. Any of Biden, Pete, Klobuchar, Steyer, or Yang could do. The important thing is to avoid a McGovern moment. To win an election you need swing voters. Extremists repel them. As we have now seen again.


And I think you’re too caught up in watching left/centrist/right as if it’s the only way to swing voters.

Bernie can clearly swing voters in the swing states Hillary lost. I don’t see why not. Farmers in Penn as an example. Trump has failed them a lot, and I feel Bernie will be able to swing them more than a centrist, who’s basically just someone sucking off Wall Street’s teet


Because the average midwest farmer isnt going to vote for someone they feel will give handouts to minorities.
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Post by Pedram on Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:58 pm

@Young Kaz wrote:
@Freeza wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:You're getting stuck on the names. Any of Biden, Pete, Klobuchar, Steyer, or Yang could do. The important thing is to avoid a McGovern moment. To win an election you need swing voters. Extremists repel them. As we have now seen again.


And I think you’re too caught up in watching left/centrist/right as if it’s the only way to swing voters.

Bernie can clearly swing voters in the swing states Hillary lost. I don’t see why not. Farmers in Penn as an example. Trump has failed them a lot, and I feel Bernie will be able to swing them more than a centrist, who’s basically just someone sucking off Wall Street’s teet


Because the average midwest farmer isnt going to vote for someone they feel will give handouts to minorities.


Are Democrats the party that stands for minorities or not? if these people feel expanding social security is a handout to minorities then they shouldn't be Democrat to begin with.

I feel there's no point in trying to convert Trump supporters because that would mean Democrats would have to compromise on their values and identity as a party.
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Post by Young Kaz on Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:52 pm

@Pedram wrote:
@Young Kaz wrote:
@Freeza wrote:


And I think you’re too caught up in watching left/centrist/right as if it’s the only way to swing voters.

Bernie can clearly swing voters in the swing states Hillary lost. I don’t see why not. Farmers in Penn as an example. Trump has failed them a lot, and I feel Bernie will be able to swing them more than a centrist, who’s basically just someone sucking off Wall Street’s teet


Because the average midwest farmer isnt going to vote for someone they feel will give handouts to minorities.


Are Democrats the party that stands for minorities or not? if these people feel expanding social security is a handout to minorities then they shouldn't be Democrat to begin with.

I feel there's no point in trying to convert Trump supporters because that would mean Democrats would have to compromise on their values and identity as a party.


The key isnt to convert Trumpers...most are deplorable as Hillary said.

The key is to convert people on the fence. Those who think Trump and republicans are idiots, but has the standard issue towards the black/latino/Asian people.
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Post by McLewis on Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:07 pm

I don't think comparing the results in the UK to what could happen in 2020 is plausible. From what I gather, Corbyn was not liked on either side of the ideological spectrum in the UK for a myriad of reasons. That's a rather remarkable feat to accomplish.

I think comparison MAYBE works if the Dems put up someone like Tulsi Gabbard as the nominee. Even then that doesn't work fully as there are Trump supporters and disaffected conservatives, independents and even some centrist Democrats that seem to like her.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:23 pm

That's not true. Corbyn was not liked by the party establishment, but he was definitely liked by the constituents (what we in the US would call the progressive wing of the party) evidenced by the fact that he won the leadership challenge. Corbyn, like Sanders, has made overtures to shady international organizations that a wide portion of the general populace does not share (praise for hamas and hezbollah vs praise for Castro) and they both are in favour of socialist policies like nationalization of several industries. I see them as very analogous. Do US democrats really want a repeat of the McGovern election?

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Post by Young Kaz on Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:33 pm

Sanders just retracted his endorsement from Cenk. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Post by futbol on Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:46 am

@Young Kaz wrote:What an idiot. Does he think supporting a guy who denied the Armenian genocide in metro LA of all areas will be a plus for him?

Cenk was never going to win the 25th district, and Bernie just sandbagged himsef in California with this endorsement.

Absolute amateur hour.


99.9 % of Americans can't spot Armenia on a map even if they had 3 tries, 85 % safe wouldn't even come close to spot the region.

TL;DR No one really cares about these "issues".

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Post by Young Kaz on Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:38 am

@futbol wrote:
@Young Kaz wrote:What an idiot. Does he think supporting a guy who denied the Armenian genocide in metro LA of all areas will be a plus for him?

Cenk was never going to win the 25th district, and Bernie just sandbagged himsef in California with this endorsement.

Absolute amateur hour.


99.9 % of Americans can't spot Armenia on a map even if they had 3 tries, 85 % safe wouldn't even come close to spot the region.

TL;DR No one really cares about these "issues".


LA isnt 99% of America. Its a major city with a huge Armenian diaspora that shows up to heckle Cenk and Ana whenever they have a public show there.

Everybody cares about the issues, and thats why Bernie retracted the endorsement with the quickness.
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Post by Unique on Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:50 am

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/hillary-clinton-looks-incredibly-youthful-21094778

a new haircut and some plastic surgery and she is back for round 2 rofl

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Post by Lex on Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:38 pm

@Young Kaz wrote:Sanders just retracted his endorsement from Cenk. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
As senile and demented as ol uncle Bernie is, even he knows not to side with Chunk

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Post by Lex on Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:43 pm

@McLewis wrote:I don't think comparing the results in the UK to what could happen in 2020 is plausible. From what I gather, Corbyn was not liked on either side of the ideological spectrum in the UK for a myriad of reasons. That's a rather remarkable feat to accomplish
Negative, sir. A large swathe of gullible meat suits genuinely believed he was a living saviour who would lead them to the promised land of free wifi, nuggets and episodes of The Mandalorian

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Post by Blue on Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:58 pm

The centrist party Lib dems in the Uk got destroyed, their party leader also lost her seat. UK and USA situation is not equivalent.

The labour party didn't really deal with Brexit that well and paid the price.

From a statistic i looked up they did a poor job with poor and marginalized community. You are going to have issue attempting to run of leftist politics if you can't even get support from the poor and marginalized.

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Post by RealGunner on Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:00 pm

Bernie instead of Corbyn and Labour would have won by a landslide in the UK.


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Post by Unique on Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:28 pm

@RealGunner wrote:Bernie instead of Corbyn and Labour would have won by a landslide in the UK.


rofl rofl rofl rofl

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Post by Freeza on Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:41 pm

@RealGunner wrote:Bernie instead of Corbyn and Labour would have won by a landslide in the UK.




Also this idea that choosing a centrist works in the US. is an absolutely disproved idea.

Al Gore, John Kerry, Obama and Clinton were all centrist, and the only one who won was Obama because he posed and conned the people with a progressive message that he didn't give a shit about really.

Every time the democrats choose someone who comes across as a centrist and has no real personality or identifiable policy it always end bad.

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Post by Young Kaz on Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:29 pm

@Freeza wrote:
@RealGunner wrote:Bernie instead of Corbyn and Labour would have won by a landslide in the UK.




Also this idea that choosing a centrist works in the US. is an absolutely disproved idea.

Al Gore, John Kerry, Obama and Clinton were all centrist, and the only one who won was Obama because he posed and conned the people with a progressive message that he didn't give a shit about really.

Every time the democrats choose someone who comes across as a centrist and has no real personality or identifiable policy it always end bad.


3 of those 4 won the popular vote.
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Post by Young Kaz on Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:37 pm

@RealGunner wrote:Bernie instead of Corbyn and Labour would have won by a landslide in the UK.




Nobody of any sort of political, or common, decency would allign with Cenk.

He's a boisterous clown that runs a "News" outlet that craps on everybody not Bernie. He's also a holocaust denying carpetbagger who is going to get embarrassed IRL the same way that fat sack of garbage Sargon did in the UK.

This is a progressive who said:

"Every American is John Wayne to a Japanese girl who needs a new purse, a grammar lesson in English and a decent sized penis for a change."

So yeah, fuck him.
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Post by Unique on Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:00 pm

@Freeza wrote:
@RealGunner wrote:Bernie instead of Corbyn and Labour would have won by a landslide in the UK.




Also this idea that choosing a centrist works in the US. is an absolutely disproved idea.

Al Gore, John Kerry, Obama and Clinton were all centrist, and the only one who won was Obama because he posed and conned the people with a progressive message that he didn't give a shit about really.

Every time the democrats choose someone who comes across as a centrist and has no real personality or identifiable policy it always end bad.
obama won from a GL type reverse jinx. like all the black people said obama cant win because he is black and a black man will never be president so america voted for obama because nobody said they would. GL jinx won it for obama imo.

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Post by Unique on Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:02 pm

@Young Kaz wrote:
@RealGunner wrote:Bernie instead of Corbyn and Labour would have won by a landslide in the UK.




Nobody of any sort of political, or common, decency would allign with Cenk.

He's a boisterous clown that runs a "News" outlet that craps on everybody not Bernie. He's also a holocaust denying carpetbagger who is going to get embarrassed IRL the same way that fat sack of garbage Sargon did in the UK.

This is a progressive who said:

"Every American is John Wayne to a Japanese girl who needs a new purse, a grammar lesson in English and a decent sized penis for a change."

So yeah, fuck him.
double ouch

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Post by Freeza on Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:22 pm

@Young Kaz wrote:
@Freeza wrote:
@RealGunner wrote:Bernie instead of Corbyn and Labour would have won by a landslide in the UK.




Also this idea that choosing a centrist works in the US. is an absolutely disproved idea.

Al Gore, John Kerry, Obama and Clinton were all centrist, and the only one who won was Obama because he posed and conned the people with a progressive message that he didn't give a shit about really.

Every time the democrats choose someone who comes across as a centrist and has no real personality or identifiable policy it always end bad.


3 of those 4 won the popular vote.


And yet the argument FOR a centrist is that they’re supposed to win the swing states they actually lost hmm

Democrats will always win the popular vote because frankly 70% of the nation are democrats but the electoral college keeps people from voting.

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Post by Freeza on Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:40 pm

@Unique wrote:
@Young Kaz wrote:
@RealGunner wrote:Bernie instead of Corbyn and Labour would have won by a landslide in the UK.




Nobody of any sort of political, or common, decency would allign with Cenk.

He's a boisterous clown that runs a "News" outlet that craps on everybody not Bernie. He's also a holocaust denying carpetbagger who is going to get embarrassed IRL the same way that fat sack of garbage Sargon did in the UK.

This is a progressive who said:

"Every American is John Wayne to a Japanese girl who needs a new purse, a grammar lesson in English and a decent sized penis for a change."

So yeah, fuck him.
double ouch


Tbh sounds like something Betty would say

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Post by Pedram on Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:43 pm

@Freeza wrote:
@Young Kaz wrote:
@Freeza wrote:

Also this idea that choosing a centrist works in the US. is an absolutely disproved idea.

Al Gore, John Kerry, Obama and Clinton were all centrist, and the only one who won was Obama because he posed and conned the people with a progressive message that he didn't give a shit about really.

Every time the democrats choose someone who comes across as a centrist and has no real personality or identifiable policy it always end bad.


3 of those 4 won the popular vote.


And yet the argument FOR a centrist is that they’re supposed to win the swing states they actually lost hmm

Democrats will always win the popular vote because frankly 70% of the nation are democrats but the electoral college keeps people from voting.


Exactly, it doesn't matter by how many votes Democrats beat Trump, as long as they can't take back those industrial Mid-western states they're mathematically fucked. they're clinging into hope that states like Georgia, Arizona, Texas will flip to blue and offset the loss in midwest but that's not happening in 2020.
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Post by McLewis on Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:45 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:That's not true. Corbyn was not liked by the party establishment, but he was definitely liked by the constituents (what we in the US would call the progressive wing of the party) evidenced by the fact that he won the leadership challenge. Corbyn, like Sanders, has made overtures to shady international organizations that a wide portion of the general populace does not share (praise for hamas and hezbollah vs praise for Castro) and they both are in favour of socialist policies like nationalization of several industries. I see them as very analogous. Do US democrats really want a repeat of the McGovern election?

I'll concede that Corbyn had a following with constituents and not with the party establishment. To answer your question, Democrats (namely the DNC) want Trump out of office full stop. Sanders may have socialist designs, but even if elected, he'd never get even half of what he's running on passed by even a Democrat-controlled Congress. I believe the more moderate Democrats in both the House and Senate would be a check on his more far-left proposals. What remains to be seen is if they would fall into the same trap Republicans have with Trump in fearing primaries from their left and general challenges from their right if they fail to fall-in line with a Sanders Admin agenda. I don't think that would happen.

@Lex wrote:
@McLewis wrote:I don't think comparing the results in the UK to what could happen in 2020 is plausible. From what I gather, Corbyn was not liked on either side of the ideological spectrum in the UK for a myriad of reasons. That's a rather remarkable feat to accomplish
Negative, sir. A large swathe of gullible meat suits genuinely believed he was a living saviour who would lead them to the promised land of free wifi, nuggets and episodes of The Mandalorian

See my response to BC above.

I'll note that "gullible meat suits" live on both sides of the political spectrum. The ones who voted the Conservatives will understand this soon enough when the NHS gets dismantled and the American-style private health insurance companies begin making real in-roads.
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