Pep Guardiola - King of the Carabao Club

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Post by Helmer Wed May 05, 2021 2:36 pm

all I care is, Agüero one of favorite players from the opposition teams will finally have a deserved CL medal Proud

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Post by Lucifer Wed May 05, 2021 5:13 pm

@CBarca wrote:All my Pepsexuals where you at

We did it guys Proud

TAKE US HOME BALD FRAUD

That is not a good name for a group. Let me suggest one, how about "Pepolds"? hmm
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Post by Myesyats Wed May 05, 2021 5:45 pm

definitely Pepophiles
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Post by CBarca Wed May 05, 2021 7:59 pm

Honored to be a Pepophile
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Post by Myesyats Wed May 05, 2021 8:03 pm

that sounds risky when you say it aloud Very Happy
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Post by Casciavit Tue May 11, 2021 8:10 pm

Just won his 3rd PL title. Proud

This is one of his most impressive trophies. A lot of people wrote them off at the start of the season including me, but they bounced back after a rough start to win 20 games in a row.

If he wins the CL, all he'll have left is to be the first English team to win the quadruple. City has the depth to compete for that, but it's obviously easier said than done. That being said if it did ever happen it would really cap off his City reign. He'd have nothing left to do there.
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Post by Winter is Coming Wed May 12, 2021 4:55 am

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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed May 12, 2021 9:24 am

Very disparate sample size

I'm going to need a "trophies per season" table :coffee:
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Post by Arquitecto Wed May 12, 2021 1:06 pm

Best coach in the world and the only one who comes close at the moment is Klopp.

Will not explain.
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Post by LeBéninois Wed May 12, 2021 2:00 pm

@Winter is Coming wrote:

Luis Enrique was not a manager in 2008-2009 ...
I'm not impressed. How many seasons has each of them coached ? What clubs ? Their budget ?
I like Pep but it must be reminded that he has ALWAYS been given all the necessary tools to implant his philosophy unlike the others.
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Post by Winter is Coming Wed May 12, 2021 3:06 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Very disparate sample size

I'm going to need a "trophies per season" table :coffee:


Too lazy to do it for all but from my math the top 3

1. Flick - 3.5 trophies
2. Pep - 2.54 trophies
3. Zidane - 2.22 trophies

All tho Flick and Zidane worked half a season I just put it as one so they would be higher if we put .5 season in.
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Post by Winter is Coming Wed May 12, 2021 4:40 pm

@LeBéninois wrote:

Luis Enrique was not a manager in 2008-2009 ...
I'm not impressed. How many seasons has each of them coached ? What clubs ? Their budget ?
I like Pep but it must be reminded that he has ALWAYS been given all the necessary tools to implant his philosophy unlike the others.

The stat is a bit nitpicking not going to lie, but its pointing out from when Pep started some managers on the list were around that time, some retired and some just started.

Pep gets these jobs and tools because he's one of the best and most sought after manager, no one will deny he hasn't inherited talented groups or in case of City spent a fortune, but nobody is going to give LE that because he isn't that good, Pep is probably the only manager or among the few that can literally step down from City and point to where he wants to go next.

Even if we take your argument into consideration in that time frame, Mou coached Inter, RM, Chelsea, United and has 13 trophies, Carlito Milan, Chelsea, PSG, RM, Bayern and has 8, the two combined have 21 titles Laughing
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Post by rincon Wed May 12, 2021 5:08 pm

A list like this doesn't say much more than "Pep wins a lot of titles"

@Winter is Coming wrote:
@LeBéninois wrote:

Luis Enrique was not a manager in 2008-2009 ...
I'm not impressed. How many seasons has each of them coached ? What clubs ? Their budget ?
I like Pep but it must be reminded that he has ALWAYS been given all the necessary tools to implant his philosophy unlike the others.

The stat is a bit nitpicking not going to lie, but its pointing out from when Pep started some managers on the list were around that time, some retired and some just started.

Pep gets these jobs and tools because he's one of the best and most sought after manager, no one will deny he hasn't inherited talented groups or in case of City spent a fortune, but nobody is going to give LE that because he isn't that good, Pep is probably the only manager or among the few that can literally step down from City and point to where he wants to go next.

Even if we take your argument into consideration in that time frame, Mou coached Inter, RM, Chelsea, United and has 13 trophies, Carlito Milan, Chelsea, PSG, RM, Bayern and has 8, the two combined have 21 titles Laughing

Mou won the CL with Porto, is that worth the same as a Carabao cup? The trebble with Inter? Carlo's 3 CL with different clubs?

Allegri won 11 trophies in 5 years at Juve and he doesn't play a league Cup like in England. Give City and he would win a couple of those too.
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Post by Warrior Wed May 12, 2021 5:24 pm

Fraudiola won 2.5x the amount of titles

But he spent 10x, 20x the amount of money
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Post by farfan Wed May 12, 2021 5:27 pm

Say what you want about Mourinho, but that 2004 CL title will always be more impressive than anything on Guardiola's CV.
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Post by Casciavit Wed May 12, 2021 6:11 pm

Remove league cups it's 27, remove domestic cups it's 22. Still head and shoulders above the others.

Then you'll hit back with "he had the best teams" yeah because the best teams hire the best coaches. No sensible coach is going to coach down unless they have to. You think Ancelotti and Mourinho joined midtable teams like Everton and Roma for the challenge? They joined them because the true top teams didn't want them because they underwhelmed in their previous jobs.

No one could have done what he did at Barca. The trophies and the football he had them playing. He changed football. Look at the influence he's had on the new coaches coming up and the way they speak about him. His Barca in 2011 had Fergie shaking in his chair ffs.

When he joined Bayern they hadn't even won the treble yet (the announcement was in January) and the previous back to back league champion was BVB. Yeah fans wanted him to win the CL, but it didn't happen. Yet his influence still had the likes of Lahm and the Bayern board begging him to stay. Even the tactics there changed. Tuchel, Naglesmann, and co have all spoke about how he influenced their thinking and their coaching. Before he joined Bayern, they had only won one BL title in the last 3 years. He was the one who solidified their domestic dynasty even if he didn't start it.

At City, he joined a team that had half the players over 30 years old. A rebuild was always going to happen. If I'm bank rolled by sheikhs I'm asking for 50M level players not some random 15M player just because someone on the internet wants me to prove myself lmfao.

The funny thing is that people seem to think that just because you had lots of money you will succeed. Is that why Lampard got sacked a few months after spending 200M? Is that why Mourinho got sacked for spending hundreds of millions at United to only win a EL? Is that why Benitez got sacked while coaching prime Madrid in 2016? Barca spends hundreds of millions on big signings every year yet they embarrass themselves in the CL every year. Juve spent 180M on De Ligt and Ronaldo to only get knocked out against weak teams in the CL. Neymar and Mbappe alone costed more than City's starting lineup yet City still beat them.

The money helps, but it's not a guarantee. The reason City is so comfortable spending that amount is because Pep is a proven coach. He's been the best coach in the world since he started coaching if we look at it across 12 years and not nitpick specific seasons. He didn't fall off like Ancelotti or Mourinho did. He won CL's which Conte and Simeone couldn't. He didn't have imploding seasons the way Klopp, Pochettino, and Conte had. He got his teams playing the hardest football to play and became a serial winner out of it.

Certain people on here have undeniable agendas against him. Of course they were all quiet when he progressed to the finals. Unlike the previous years when they would be the loudest when he got knocked out in the knockout rounds. When he was one of the first coaches to come out against ESL you had them saying oh he did it for cameras. The haters just don't like him. It's funny because the same ones hating would be creaming their pants if he joined their clubs. He's the most valuable coach in the world and if all top teams had blank cheques to offer a coach, all of them would be offering it to Guardiola first.

Of course everyone wants to see him coach a weaker team with less resources, but the only reason that ever happens is if you start at a weaker team and take them there or fall off and resort to a weaker team. He did well at Barca B and got the Barca job and made history with Barca. None of these former players have been able to do the same despite getting top teams as their first job. The closest is Zidane but he was using Ancelotti's spine. Pep crafted that Barca team in his own image.

Even if they lose the CL finals against Chelsea what the haters say doesn't matter. By the end of his career he'll likely have won the most trophies ever (Fergie has the record at 49 I think). His players all wax lyrical about his coaching and how they improved as players. His style of football played a large part in modernizing the game, and most current coaches call him the best in the world. The upcoming coaches all look up to him and his teams as the standard bearer. If he doesn't fall off and continues the pace he's on, he will go down as the GOAT coach and no crying about money, Messi, league cups, and a CL 17 years ago from Mourinho will change that.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.


Last edited by Casciavit on Wed May 12, 2021 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by farfan Wed May 12, 2021 6:18 pm

What pace? Laughing considering what it took him to get back to a CL final after a decade, I'm fairly certain his overall record in the Champions League will be surpassed by other managers.
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Post by Casciavit Wed May 12, 2021 6:21 pm

He wins on average 2.5 trophies per year. That would take him around 8 years to equal (31 trophies right now to Fergie's 49). He's only 50 so it's definitely feasible. Even if he doesn't win another CL he'd still be equal to Mourinho and Fergie who apparently never spent any money in their careers. If he wins against Chelsea him, Zidane, and Ancelotti would be the only 3 to have won it 3 times. The only coach to win it more than once in the last decade was Zidane.
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Post by Winter is Coming Wed May 12, 2021 6:25 pm

@rincon wrote:A list like this doesn't say much more than "Pep wins a lot of titles"

@Winter is Coming wrote:
@LeBéninois wrote:

Luis Enrique was not a manager in 2008-2009 ...
I'm not impressed. How many seasons has each of them coached ? What clubs ? Their budget ?
I like Pep but it must be reminded that he has ALWAYS been given all the necessary tools to implant his philosophy unlike the others.

The stat is a bit nitpicking not going to lie, but its pointing out from when Pep started some managers on the list were around that time, some retired and some just started.

Pep gets these jobs and tools because he's one of the best and most sought after manager, no one will deny he hasn't inherited talented groups or in case of City spent a fortune, but nobody is going to give LE that because he isn't that good, Pep is probably the only manager or among the few that can literally step down from City and point to where he wants to go next.

Even if we take your argument into consideration in that time frame, Mou coached Inter, RM, Chelsea, United and has 13 trophies, Carlito Milan, Chelsea, PSG, RM, Bayern and has 8, the two combined have 21 titles Laughing

Mou won the CL with Porto, is that worth the same as a Carabao cup? The trebble with Inter? Carlo's 3 CL with different clubs?

Allegri won 11 trophies in 5 years at Juve and he doesn't play a league Cup like in England. Give City and he would win a couple of those too.


I'm not implying Carabao Cup is better than CL or trebles. I did mention in my first sentence the stat is a little nitpicking in comparison to some of the others mainly retired and beginning managers, but the main argument above was the implying Pep has had the resources/tools to build his team which I 100% agree with my main point was that Carlo in that same period coached Milan, Chelsea, PSG, RM and Bayern, while Mou coached Inter, RM, Chelsea and United, yet there trophies fall in comparison one can't argue they weren't in the same privileged situation at the time.
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Post by rincon Wed May 12, 2021 6:26 pm

No one is saying he isn't a top coach. Simply that a table with number of titles without context doesn't say anything. Give any top coach the kind of money and stability Pep has and they will deliver trophies. Simple as that. All coaches are like that, Mou, Carlo, Klopp all won also because they had the resources to do so, Pep just has the most stacked situation.
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Post by Myesyats Wed May 12, 2021 7:45 pm

He would have probably won CL with Bayern in 2015 if it wasnt for MSN. A lot of that is just down to luck and he was very unlucky to encounter that trio in their prime.
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Post by danyjr Wed May 12, 2021 9:02 pm

Pretty much what @rincon said. Nobody said he is a bad manager. In fact he is one of the best coaches around, but he isn't worth getting wet over like his número uno fangirls do here.

In fact he is a coach that cannot succeed without money. And that is very important. Someone like Pochettino, Ancelotti etc. get decent results with shit players as they apply reasonable tactical choices to the players they have at their disposal, whereas Guardiola would try to make them play tiki-taka-esque and fail miserably.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed May 12, 2021 9:05 pm

If he wanted credit for doing great work he shouldn't have gone to Man City and buy two 60m fullbacks and a 80m CB to go along with it every season, while openly violating UEFA FFP rules

fuck him
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Post by CBarca Wed May 12, 2021 10:16 pm

He's pretty obviously the best manager in the world, but it's fair to talk about the money he's been allowed to spend and the quality of squads he's had. His failures in the UCL in the last several years also require scrutiny.

Despite his success it's still clear that he's learning though, and his leaving the tinkering at home for these UCL ties this year is proof that he's growing and getting better.
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Post by FennecFox7 Wed May 12, 2021 11:04 pm

He is a great manager though. The way he’s improved Mahrez, reintroduced de bruyne as a false 9 to compensate for NO CF, being midtable but eventually winning the title. Zidane had lots of money and signed two overpriced flops. Lampard had a huge budget and bottled it.
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Post by El Gunner Wed May 12, 2021 11:55 pm

@rincon wrote:No one is saying he isn't a top coach. Simply that a table with number of titles without context doesn't say anything. Give any top coach the kind of money and stability Pep has and they will deliver trophies. Simple as that. All coaches are like that, Mou, Carlo, Klopp all won also because they had the resources to do so, Pep just has the most stacked situation.

lol you just sound like a hater
why isn't Mou Carlo or Klopp anywhere close to his total number titles won then?

@Winter you posted a valid list
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