Champions League Group Stage - Group F

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Post by Warrior Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:47 pm

Accidental is the perfect word to describe this match.

Napoli is going ALL IN for the league, i wonder why people can't recognize it Laughing

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Post by breva Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:06 pm

Napoli says oops. Probably should have rested more players.
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Post by Lucifer Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:58 am

Warrior wrote:Accidental is the perfect word to describe this match.

Napoli is going ALL IN for the league, i wonder why people can't recognize it Laughing

The question is was Sarri "accidentally late" as we all are sometimes or the old fecker secretly wants to "conceive" something that his better half doesn't know. If latter is the case then high five to the legend.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:30 pm

Warrior wrote:Accidental is the perfect word to describe this match.

Napoli is going ALL IN for the league, i wonder why people can't recognize it Laughing


Unbelievably small time, genuinely hope they don't win the league to teach them a lesson the pathetic losers.
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Post by breva Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:25 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Warrior wrote:Accidental is the perfect word to describe this match.

Napoli is going ALL IN for the league, i wonder why people can't recognize it Laughing


Unbelievably small time, genuinely hope they don't win the league to teach them a lesson the pathetic losers.


Napoli is a small time club.  They've only won the Scudetto twice in a century or more of history, the last one around 30 years ago, and that's only because they broke the bank and bought Maradona.  They were in Serie C just 11 years ago.  They may not be in a position to win the Scudetto for another 30 years as Inter and Milan strengthen with Chinese money. With the Milanese clubs back in their traditional positions, there will be little room for Napoli in the top 4 or even top 5, given their comparatively limited finances.

So, there is nothing pathetic about Napoli concentrating on the Scudetto. it is a last chance thing for them to win the Scudetto.

Note: Most Napoli fans are calculating that between playing the second string against Feyenoord and Guardiola playing their youth team against Shakthar, they have a good chance of being eliminated.  It is clear that they can't afford more injuries in Europe, e.g. Ghoulan.
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Post by rincon Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:52 pm

I don't understand this hate. Its not that different from teams routinely resting players from national cups or EL to be rested for the league. When a club rests players during the weekend to play more rested for CL on tuesday/wednesday is it different? teams are always giving priorities to certain objectives.

They already lost Ghoulam in the game against City. What happens if Insigne had gotten injured against Shaktar? scudetto push takes another huge blow.

Either player X gets rested during the league or during CL, because you can't play the same guys every game. Juve rested players during the league (against Samp) and we lost. Its not that we don't care about Serie A, but that we prioritized the CL game vs Barca.

Its not like Diawara, Zielinski, Maggio and Chiriches are stepping out there to lose, they'll still play to win. Their depth was good enough to beat Shaktar 3-0 but wasn't good enough to beat City, that's just how it is.
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Post by rincon Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:57 pm

Next summer (just like this summer) Insigne, Mertens, Ghoulam, Hysaj, Koulibaly, Jorginho and Zielniski will be the target of bids. Unlike last summer, they won't have the "lets all stay together 1 more year to push for the scudetto" pact if they fail. Napoli may make great signings and improve the team, but for some of these players its scudetto time now or never (with Napoli).
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Post by Luca Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:15 pm

People are probably just expecting more from a club that wants to be champions but doesn't want to play in the Champions League hmm

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Post by rincon Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:39 pm

Yeah it sucks for us that want to see teams put everything in CL but we are not their fans, they don't play for us. Its like I'd want teams to go hard on EL so that we get a better spectacle but then you end up with Nice-Lazio resting half their players for it.
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Post by Luca Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:45 pm

rincon wrote:Yeah it sucks for us that want to see teams put everything in CL but we are not their fans, they don't play for us. Its like I'd want teams to go hard on EL so that we get a better spectacle but then you end up with Nice-Lazio resting half their players for it.


Napoli for the most part have played very well anyways. In the first match against Shakhtar they missed a ton of chances, they played hard against City who were just better and they won with Shakhtar in the return quite easily and with Feyenoord. They also destroyed Nice in the CL playoffs

Its seemingly a backwards mentality to not prioritize the Champions League, given that Napoli have been a top 3 team in Italy in 4 of the last 6 seasons but at the same time, its pragmatic. Maybe they felt that last season it cost them to go to the round of 16, personally I don't think it impacted them losing out to us and considering they're on pace to make the Europa League, and lost an important player like Ghoulam in their run then its very ironic

Anyways, never liked Napoli or De Laurentiis particularly that much so I'm ok even if they are relegated. I have a lot of respect for them as a team and the way they play though, to which nobody can realistically deny them

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Post by Kaladin Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:56 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Warrior wrote:Accidental is the perfect word to describe this match.

Napoli is going ALL IN for the league, i wonder why people can't recognize it Laughing


Unbelievably small time, genuinely hope they don't win the league to teach them a lesson the pathetic losers.


Funny

I seem to recall something hypocritical in the past
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Post by rincon Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:57 pm

Its impossible to like ADL but I do like Napoli fans and the club (my family is from the area) and the city is into football to a really awesome level. They take passion and rivalries to a dumb level that is really fun to see.

I was there last year after we signed Higuain and its amazing the amount of Higuain/Juve crap you would find around the city center. Haven't seen a city that visibly expressive about club football stuff.

In any case they have limitations and objectives, ADL knows it more than anyone. He is a prick and a clown but at least he is methodic and pragmatic about his approach to make the club grow, so far he has been successful.

Anyway they will still want to qualify for sure, they just wanted to do it within the means that they are willing to put forward.
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Post by Robespierre Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:57 pm

Stop with this "they don't care " stuff lol
I don't get where it was born. Probably it is the perception of dominant team in Serie A but the UCL is another thing.
If Napoli don't get qualified is just why they bottled it against Shaktar on first leg.
Scudetto is their main target but they have snubbed nothing . Nothing.
6-2 aggregate against City is just the rreal difference of level compared to City.
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Post by M99 Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:01 pm

Robespierre wrote:Stop with this "they don't care " stuff lol
I don't get where it was born. Probably it is the perception of dominant team in Serie A but the UCL is another thing.
If Napoli don't get qualified is just why they bottled it against Shaktar on first leg.
Scudetto is their main target but they have snubbed nothing . Nothing.
6-2 aggregate against City is just the difference of level than City.


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Post by Doc Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:30 pm

Napoli fans really don't care for the UCL? Really? Like, thinking about it, I am having an incredibly hard time believing that.
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Post by breva Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:53 pm

Robespierre wrote:Stop with this "they don't care " stuff lol
I don't get where it was born. Probably it is the perception of dominant team in Serie A but the UCL is another thing.
If Napoli don't get qualified is just why they bottled it against Shaktar on first leg.
Scudetto is their main target but they have snubbed nothing . Nothing.
6-2 aggregate against City is just the rreal difference of level compared to City.


If CL were top priority Sarri would have played the first team complete. The players all want to win and try their best, it's not a question of not trying. But like Juventus against Samp, Allegri did not put out their best team, they rested players for the match against Barca.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:03 pm

Even if we were to assume that it's true - that Napoli were in fact and purposely trying to get knocked out of the CL to solely focus on the league - that only makes matters worse because that would be further proof that they have a deeply flawed mentality.

Football is not an exact science and there's no guarantee that by focusing solely on one competition you'll end up winning it. It could always backfire and you end up trophyless. The best approach is to go all out and gun for all the possible titles, and even then you may very well end up empty-handed. But at least you'll have tried.

We're talking about the CL here. It's the most prestigious club competition and the one that every single player and every single manager dreams of winning. Not trying to disrespect anyone here, but I find it truly hard to believe that Napoli don't care about the CL. They sure do, and that's why they gave their all against Shakhtar and I expect them to do the same in the final group game.



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Post by McLewis Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:19 pm

I think to say Napoli don't care about CL is to go too far. Not really fair to Sarri and Co.

I do think that they realize that they have a much better chance at winning Serie A (their best in years) so despite the prestige of the CL and if push comes to shove, I think they tend to prioritize Serie A higher. Nothing wrong with that. They rightfully should chase the silverware they have the best chance of winning.
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Post by rincon Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:21 pm

I don't think anyone is saying that they want to be knocked out. They clearly try to win, the players that play give it their all, they just don't play the full team because they would rather be fresher in Serie A than in CL.

They have to make choices in terms of when to rest certain players, so the I ask @Doc or anyone else, should they rest players in Serie A to be fresh in CL and how would that help them achieve their objectives?
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Post by Doc Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:51 pm

If Napoli really had not a single interest in the UCL then they would have fully rotated for most of their games. I only started to see a "don't care for it" attitude after the City games. Mind you, that's from own point of view, I'm sure it's more detailed when I go further into the rabbit hole.

Sure, you chase the silverware that you have the highest chance of winning or the position in the table that you can realistically reach. That's normal stuff. But we are in November, no one is winning Serie A in December. There is a lot of games remaining for anyone to mess up and the UCL is 6 games. Napoli does have the squad (I think) to play well in both.

I'm not looking for Napoli to win the UCL, don't think anyone is but realistically speaking, a 2nd round qualification ain't out of reach for them.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:54 pm

Aye spend all year to qualify for the CL only to go " let's concentrate on the league " it's pathetically small time no matter how you slice it.
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Post by breva Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:55 pm

Doc wrote:If Napoli really had not a single interest in the UCL then they would have fully rotated for most of their games. I only started to see a "don't care for it" attitude after the City games. Mind you, that's from own point of view, I'm sure it's more detailed when I go further into the rabbit hole.

Sure, you chase the silverware that you have the highest chance of winning or the position in the table that you can realistically reach. That's normal stuff. But we are in November, no one is winning Serie A in December. There is a lot of games remaining for anyone to mess up and the UCL is 6 games. Napoli does have the squad (I think) to play well in both.

I'm not looking for Napoli to win the UCL, don't think anyone is but realistically speaking, a 2nd round qualification ain't out of reach for them.


A team like Napoli could easily lose the Scudetto in November through injuries and losses caused by not having their top players fit.
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Post by Luca Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:58 pm

They don't have the depth quite literally to rotate more than they did. They rotated with reason but while clubs rest players in anticipation of Champions League matches, Napoli rotated starters with anticipation of Serie A matches

They care, they do, they played all the matches to win with the team that they fielded but from the go they fielded stronger 11s in Serie A than they did in the Champions League and not due to injury or form

Not even sure how this can be argued when the De Laurentiis himself publicly stated that players should be rested for their Serie A match against Inter before their match against Manchester City. I'm not one to appeal to authority, in fact I absolutely despise to do so but its quite fitting for an argument which is becoming quite circular as it is cynical

and this talk of otherwise is nonsense, they already lost Ghoulam for the season in the CL. They played their best with who they fielded and to be honest, you still expect them to beat Shakhtar without Jorginho and Allan, Zelinski and Diawara aren't scrubs

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Post by rincon Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:08 pm

@Doc

Last season Napoli literally lost the league in October when Milik got injured and they hadn't figured out Mertens yet. After that they kept pace with Juve all the way. The two games lost in October vs Roma (Gabbiadini CF) and Juve (Mertens start as CF) lost them the league.

You say that you think that they have the squad to play well in both, well you seeing the answer to that. From the start they've been playing some rotational players. That got them to where they are, 2 losses to City, 2 (likely) wins to Feyenoord and a 4-2 agg vs Shaktar. If that's enough or not, we'll see in the last matchday. The big screw up was the game in Ukraine where they created a ton, but failed to score more.

As a Juve fan, I would never think of snubbing the CL. For fans of a smaller club that have been getting so close to making history in Serie A, I understand it.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:13 pm

As a fan of a smaller club i don't.

You spend all year to qualify for said competition only to give it up for a competition you probably won't win anyway? it's absolutely pathetic.

It's not like they'll completely fall apart going for both anyway and regardless if they fail it just means they need to improve.

The mentality of spending all season to qualify to give it up before Christmas is pathetic and i don't want to hear arguments to the contrary.
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Post by rincon Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:15 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:As a fan of a smaller club i don't.

You spend all year to qualify for said competition only to give it up for a competition you probably won't win anyway? it's absolutely pathetic.


They don't though. They spend all year trying to win Serie A. CL is mostly a big payday for them.

They are not trying to just participate in these competitions, they are trying to win the league. Anything else will be seen as a failure at the end of the season.
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