Vinicius Jr signs for Madrid

Neymar is old now, 31 already and semi-retired since 28

I think I saw a stat recently that he missed more games with PSG than Dembele with Barca. And that's crazy because Dembele is almost constantly injured

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:Probably the best player in Europe

No other blends the same degree of physicality and technique, mentality also on spot.

What is it with RM fans always thinking they must have the best player in the world

First they tried to push Benz on us, now Vini?

From Jan of last year. The agenda continues

Madridistas have a fragile ego and always need to have the 'best' player playing for them. Only it's been a while since the days R9 played for Real.

Vibe wrote:Vini is still 22, hard to believe since he's been a prominent member of the first team for so long already.

If he improves his finishing and his decision making he's gonna be a monster. But the question is can he improve? Weird thing to say for a 22 year old but somehow he strikes me as someone who is close to his ceiling.

I feel like this is exactly what we were all saying when he first signed on as a teenager. And it sounds like it hasn't changed?

hala wrote:Look at everyone talking about Haaland and Mbapay. Without goals they aren't even a fraction as good as Vini

actually insane not delusional

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:Probably the best player in Europe

No other blends the same degree of physicality and technique, mentality also on spot.

What is it with RM fans always thinking they must have the best player in the world

First they tried to push Benz on us, now Vini?

From Jan of last year. The agenda continues

Madridistas have a fragile ego and always need to have the 'best' player playing for them. Only it's been a while since the days R9 played for Real.

Your quote from January of last year didn't exactly age well you scoffed at the idea of Benz being the best in the world just before he went on to have one of the greatest CL knockout stage performances of all time and win the BO by a landslide

yea today the boy's decision making was quite poor, very loose with the ball as well, not that great of a passer... Saka clears quite easily actually

Tbf to Vini, he doesn't play in a positional system that holds his hand the way Saka does.

Arsenal have elite spacing and structure. Madrid are the complete opposite.

They're the only top team that doesn't have a threat in the left half space. This means Vinicius is incredibly isolated so he finds himself in more difficult situations hence more bad decision making.

Nacho/Mendy play deep and so does Kroos. That means his only link up partner is Benzema. Is there any striker who drifts to the wing as much as Benzema does? It's a system issue. He needs to do that so Vini isn't completely isolated, but then you're left with a gaping hole in the middle and Valverde running into the box centrally and then defending as a RM probably isn't realistic even though he's super athletic.

Vinicius takes on an incredible amount of attacking responsibility. He's better than Saka, and I like Saka. They just play in completely different contexts.

there's no way you can say so confidently he is better than Saka, that's crazy... Saka has more tools in his box and is more efficient at everything (dribbling, passing, shooting, movements)

You can argue Saka has a more complete skillet, but think of it this way:

Does Saka actually have better crossing or does he play in a system that makes it seem that way?

One of Arteta's principles is to flood the box with 5 players. Does Saka actually have better crossing or does he just have more options in the box? When Vinicius crosses the ball he's lucky if he has 2 players in there.

It's the same thing with dribbling. Arteta's all about his wingers attacking fullbacks 1v1. Odegaard drifts away from Saka, and White comes in narrow which opens up space for Saka to dribble 1v1.

Is he truly a better 1v1 dribbler or are Arsenal just better at creating those kind of situations for him? Compare that to Vini who's regularly dribbling 1v2 or 1v3 then losing the ball because odds are against him.

Saka does play more controlled and Vinicius has a more chaotic style. All I'm saying is it's hard for me to say Saka's better when he has so much hand holding compared to Vinicius.

And even with Vinicius playing in that manner he's a CL champion and was a key figure in their run last year.

That's why for me decision making is a hard thing to assess nowadays. Football isn't as individualistic as before. Most top teams play super systematic football. Madrid is one of the few exceptions who don't.

Of course your decision making is going to look better if you play for a coach who prioritizes positional play. You always have 3 options on the ball. Everyone sticks to their position so there's no variability. The spacing is geometric like. The rotations that do happen are practiced on the training ground thousands of times. All the patterns are second nature to these guys.

Ancelotti himself doesn't coach that way. Hence his lack of consistency in the league. In a 38 game league format it's more effective to play robotic football like that because even when the players are tired the patterns they rehearsed are second nature so it pulls them through tight games.

If you rely more on an individuality well that's gonna lead to more inconsistency. There's a reason Guardiola and Conte are the most successful league coaches but have flopped in the CL for the last decade. Look at Pep's sons and how they struggle in Europe too. There's an obvious theme going on.

So in one of the most important game of the history for Madrid against Barca, I guess Vini was a key player, didn't go into hiding at all, won the match for his team single handedly. Or am I missing something?

farfan wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:Probably the best player in Europe

No other blends the same degree of physicality and technique, mentality also on spot.

What is it with RM fans always thinking they must have the best player in the world

First they tried to push Benz on us, now Vini?

From Jan of last year. The agenda continues

Madridistas have a fragile ego and always need to have the 'best' player playing for them. Only it's been a while since the days R9 played for Real.

Your quote from January of last year didn't exactly age well you scoffed at the idea of Benz being the best in the world just before he went on to have one of the greatest CL knockout stage performances of all time and win the BO by a landslide

You're not wrong and I willingly accept Benz was clutch af then and completely deserving of the BdO, but:

1. Ever since CR left madrid fans were pushing the idea of Benz as the best player around when there were clearly better ones around, so this had been going on for a few years before the BdO
2. By this time your fellow madridistas were already abandoning the Benz train for the Vini one (as noted in that quote)
3. Even though Benz had fantastic CL performances in the year by this point I think common consensus is that Mbappe is the better player

Yea Real fans always want the best players in the planet n think they deserve it I think Vini is great, considering how fast hes improved from b4, n I respect most players who works their ass off in general to make up for things they lack, although the game just now he was lazy to track Araujo but dont really blame him cos he has so much to do up front.

Problem with Real is they still dont have a RW? The aging midfield means Valverde always having to play to help out but somehow also has to help create on that RW, but then Cavarjal is aging quick as well so its often just up to Vini/Benz n some Modric magic. Works when they are focused n really up for it in certain games in CL but not consistently in every game. Come to think of it, pretty sure Bayern/Man C should knock them out. Theres only so many games u can win vs top teams despite having so many issues...

halamadrid2 wrote:

El Gunner wrote:there's no way you can say so confidently he is better than Saka, that's crazy... Saka has more tools in his box and is more efficient at everything (dribbling, passing, shooting, movements)

What in the world am I reading

Please enlighten me what these efficiencies are? I can bet you any money Saka doesn't even come close to Vini in any of those metrics you mentioned. Back up your statements with facts or get outta here

Saka doesn't even have better defensive stats talk much about offensive ones

i have earlier in this thread and you bozo's couldn't come up with a response except for "he's done it on the bigger stage"... so i'll do it again...



and below on THE BIGGEST STAGE of them all

Casciavit wrote:You can argue Saka has a more complete skillet, but think of it this way:

Does Saka actually have better crossing or does he play in a system that makes it seem that way?

One of Arteta's principles is to flood the box with 5 players. Does Saka actually have better crossing or does he just have more options in the box? When Vinicius crosses the ball he's lucky if he has 2 players in there.

It's the same thing with dribbling. Arteta's all about his wingers attacking fullbacks 1v1. Odegaard drifts away from Saka, and White comes in narrow which opens up space for Saka to dribble 1v1.

Is he truly a better 1v1 dribbler or are Arsenal just better at creating those kind of situations for him? Compare that to Vini who's regularly dribbling 1v2 or 1v3 then losing the ball because odds are against him.

Saka does play more controlled and Vinicius has a more chaotic style. All I'm saying is it's hard for me to say Saka's better when he has so much hand holding compared to Vinicius.

And even with Vinicius playing in that manner he's a CL champion and was a key figure in their run last year.

look at it this way Cas...

you deduct points off Saka because you say Arteta is a better systemic coach than Carlo? but why should that count against him just because Arteta is smarter for developing a system to get the best out of his players?

if anything, every team has a system of sorts... and you can argue Vinicius has been the beneficiary of having the world's best modern day number 9 next to him. Especially in last season's CL run, Benzema does all the "smart" work in that attack, most of the off-ball movement to create openings which Vinicius benefits off of. It's the perfect complimentary player to have for a player of his skillset, because now he can use his pace and shiftiness of going either way to beat defenders, and he has nice shot technique on him too and that's why he scores so very nice looking goals.

But if you look closer, Vinicius isn't as efficient as Saka. He wastes a lot of balls with poor passes, has a lot of unsuccessful dribbles that's purely down to his development and capabilities. In contrast, Saka's development of his dribbling has truly come into its own this season. Saka may not be as fast, but he is smart enough to use defenders' body weight against them with immaculate timing, and he can quickly shift either left or right with his strong core strength. I also think Saka is overall stronger and more physical. They have about the same height, but Saka is slightly bulkier, especially in his core and shoulder/chest area. Makes it easier for him to ride off challengers, and we can all agree PL is the more physical league. Saka has been kicked around all season, so much so that it has become a media topic lately.

Also once Saka beats his defender he is more likely to find to an effective progressive pass because he is more controlled and composed with his on-ball dribbling. He has a nice shot on him too, left foot and even right foot (as we saw against Everton not too long ago). He can still improve the effectiveness of his right foot crossing.

In terms of his off-ball movement, he hugs the touchline and is often our most used outlet. Once on-ball he quickly attacks his defender, beats him and then forms triangles with Odegaard and White to make things happen because everyone in the team is often moving and creating space.

The two abilities Vinicius has over Saka is often the two most abilities which deceives football fans - pace and flair. Immediately on the eye, it makes the player stand out. But you have to look closer at his efficiencies and habits to truly get to know such a player. I'm not saying Vinicius has you lot fooled, but he still has a lot of improving and development to do to become his best version, or even a top 3 player of the new generation, as Madrid fans here has already so shamelessly crowned him.

Saka, in contrast, is more crisp and efficient with everything he does. And it's not just because of Arteta's system. You can watch him in England where he has clearly been their best player since he has come into that team, winning the most MOTMs in that span of time. Not even Bellingham has been as impressive as him in that team.

BC is being a bit fresh considering his fan base has been incredibly guilty of overdoing it with their evaluation of their own players but whatever. And not in the past either, literally talking about this season.

As for the statistic EG posted, it is completely ignoring Vini's UCL input which, personally, should not be ignored just because Saka (Arsenal) isn't there.

Helmer wrote:So in one of the most important game of the history for Madrid against Barca, I guess Vini was a key player, didn't go into hiding at all, won the match for his team single handedly. Or am I missing something?

The UCL final, yes, this could apply. A league match vs Barcelona where we were embarrassingly far behind before the match started, two outta 3.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

farfan wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:


From Jan of last year. The agenda continues

Madridistas have a fragile ego and always need to have the 'best' player playing for them. Only it's been a while since the days R9 played for Real.

Your quote from January of last year didn't exactly age well you scoffed at the idea of Benz being the best in the world just before he went on to have one of the greatest CL knockout stage performances of all time  and win the BO by a landslide

You're not wrong and I willingly accept Benz was clutch af then and completely deserving of the BdO, but:

1. Ever since CR left madrid fans were pushing the idea of Benz as the best player around when there were clearly better ones around, so this had been going on for a few years before the BdO
2. By this time your fellow madridistas were already abandoning the Benz train for the Vini one (as noted in that quote)
3. Even though Benz had fantastic CL performances in the year by this point I think common consensus is that Mbappe is the better player

It's less about Madrid fans being obsessed with having the best player in the world and more about Real Madrid always having players that have a genuine claim to be the best Just in our lifetime Madrid signed:

-Figo in his BO-winning season.
-Zidane who had won it before and was always in the conversation until his retirement.
-R9 in his second BO winning season
-Beckham who had finished second in the past
-Owen who had won it before
-Kaka who had won it before
-CR7 who had won it before and went it on to win it multiple times at Madrid
-Benzema who ended up winning it
-Modric who ended up winning it

Vinicius was the most expensive teenager in history and was always expected to be a Ballon d'Or contender. The fact that people are hailing him as one of the best is a  reflection of him living up to his potential and not some Madrid fan fantasy.

farfan wrote:

halamadrid2 wrote:

Myesyats wrote:

+The Ref+Tebas+Racismo

Vini is unlucky he has a guy who is allergic to the box and one who is fortunate Zidane has a hard on for Uber Eat plebs as guys who are supposed to support him.

Ligue 1 plebs have worked out pretty well for Madrid and your long-term fixation on Mendy is really odd Btw whatever happened to the guy you wanted at LB? Last I checked he was on his second consecutive flop at Atletico after a failed stint at Spurs..

Sergio Reguilón. The absolute definition of an above average fullback.