Cristiano Ronaldo is the GREATEST OF ALL TIME. Now Sit down and STFU

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Post by Myesyats Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:35 pm

Kebab wrote:Watch this and tell me how can that stat padder be better than Messi on a football pitch?

The year is 3073
Earth is largely uninhabitable, only a few tribes of people as we know them are still alive, even the aliens have abandoned this forsaken land.
Of the animals left that haven't gone extinct, all of them have mutated and are toxic to the touch.
Cardi B album "Gangsta Bitch Music, Vol. 2" is playing in the distance after it had been preserved in a time capsule 100 years heretofore by an unknown traveler.
Messi vs ronaldo debate is very much alive and divisive among the people as well as the alien population.

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Post by El Gunner Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:51 pm

alien's are smarter than that tbh
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:23 pm

Mamad wrote:Let's say Argentina plays against Germany at WC 2022 in quarter finals. Germany wins 1-0. Messi is the best player at the pitch creating chances and taking on defenders etc....

some people after the game: oh look Messi again failed for his NT he sucks at NT.
Me: he actually was the motm.
them: he didn't score though so nah he sucked.
Me: :facepalm:


It's not going to happen. It would be like the last time Messi faced a Flick team..
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Post by Cruijf Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:22 am

farfan wrote:

You've been mischaracterizing and oversimplifying my arguments since the start of this discussion. Laughing I didn't just look at the total numbers of goals to rate a particular player's contribution, I clearly gave more weight to decisive and impactful goals (KO stages and finals) than consistent scoring over several tournaments. It's why Gerd Muller is ahead of Klose and Platini is ahead of Ronaldo when it comes to the Euros. The thing with Messi is that he's lacking in both...

. And again, I'm not expecting him to replicate his CL or La Liga form at international level, I'm expecting him to have BETTER stats than what he currently has. I still haven't heard a single logical argument as to why my expectations are too high or unreasonable. I'm also not entertaining the "midfielder" argument either. His heatmap with Barça has been drifting to central /right midfield throughout his recent years yet he still managed to maintain a high scoring output. He also has no trouble finding the back of the net in friendlies and qualifiers, it's in tournaments where his struggles are apparent.

Since you keep bringing up Ronaldo I feel like I need to put this to bed.  What I'm saying about Messi largely applies to Ronaldo as well. Laughing Both are elite players who stuck around long enough to become all-time top scorers for their countries. However, neither player has had a dominant tournament on an individual basis, neither player has managed to decide a KO stage game against a good opponent, and neither player has impressive stats when it mattered most. I have both Ronaldo and Messi in the same tier when it comes to NT football, a tier that is several notches below where the likes of Brazilian Ronaldo, Zidane, Maradona, Platini, Pelé, etc.. are

Why is pointing out that a player is underachieving with the NT such a sore point for some of you? I can rate Messi as the GOAT and still feel underwhelmed by his international career, the two things aren't mutually exclusive since NT football is only one aspect of the game. We get accused of nitpicking Messi's NT performances to undermine him, but it's his fans who are constantly going over his performances with a fine-tooth comb to discern some sort of greatness. No goals? no assists? 0 defensive contribution?  Lowest kilometers ran per game? No problem! here is a stat sheet of hockey assists and successful dribbles...

Funny how we never had to do this with Someone like Zidane. The player you saw at club level is who you saw with the national team. We never had to blame useless stiffs like Dugarry and Guivarc'h for "letting him down", he usually found a way to get it done himself. The same goes for most of the greats I mentioned earlier.

I actually do agree with this. I mainly have an issue with people acting like CR is somehow better at the international stage, when really he has also underperformed and like Arq mentioned does not have a single standout performance in a big game. But if the argument is just that Messi has underperformed relative to his standards, I don't think anyone can argue too much with that.

I think he has done well mind you -- well enough that I don't think it detracts from his GOAT status the way it would if he was truly bad. He was a key part of the 4 finals Argentina got to, so he deserves some credit. But it is disappointing the number of big games he has done nothing in. Even in the most recent Copa, he was great for most of the tournament but did absolutely nothing in the final, and even missed a sitter. The only big game I can remember him playing very well in was the Chile final that went to penalties, but sadly that performance was soured somewhat by the penalty miss and retirement.
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Post by Arquitecto Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:55 pm

I think anyone arguing on who is the better player will be stupid to say its CR given Messi is better in nearly all things bar maybe box instinct, micromovements there and clutch time awareness but my debate is that CR simply has accomplished more and its his late career burn that takes it for me compared to a player who looks worse each year, in Messi.


And if we do bring up stats yes CR has more goals but its in far more games than Leo has played as that subtle stat stands out more than people think.


But CR being a 6 foot chad is where he takes the edge for me. Wheres Zealous when you need him
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Post by El Gunner Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:36 pm

Arq wrote:CR simply has accomplished more
how?

and also this whole "CR7 has been better than Messi in the past few years" thing is just as silly an argument to me as the whole GOAT debate... the same CR7 that went to Juve and somehow made the team worse and set them back further? the same Ronaldo that has messed up every single small building block that Ole has built up before he returned to United this season? Just because the guy still has sharp in-box instincts and racks up goals doesn't mean he has gotten better than Messi. He's literally just a lesser version of what he was in his peak. If it's just about that sharpness and those goals production - well then just until before this season Messi's production has remained constantly high as well. And i'm pretty sure Harmonica will confirm that his overall goals and assists contribution has been higher than Ronaldo's in the past 3 seasons or so. Just a few months ago Messi put in MOTM performances after MOTM performances for his national team which he is supposedly been underperforming for constantly in a dog of a competition in which players tried to break his leg every single game, the type of physicality which is supposed to be the weakness of the midget Messi.

So i say again, just because Ronaldo has a few shiny moments here and there, scores some last minute winners here and there and rips of his specially tight designed shirt to show off his Herculean abs, DOES NOT MEAN he has been better than Messi in the past few years. It does not make any sense at all!
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Post by Harmonica Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:38 pm

Arq wrote:CR simply has accomplished more
National Team Career

Messi
Winner (3) CA21, OL08, WC05u20
Runner-up (4) WC14, CA07, CA15, CA16
Golden Ball (4) WC14, CA15, CA21, WC05u20
Golden Shoe (2) CA21, WC05u20
Best Young Player (1) CA07

Cronaldo

Winner (1) EU16
Runner-up (1) EU04
Golden Shoe (1) EU20

Club Career

Messi
Trophies (35) UCL (4), League (10), Cup (7), FCWC (3), USC (3), SC (8)
Ballon d'Or (6) 09, 10, 11, 12, 15, 19
Golden Shoe (6) 09-10, 11-12, 12-13, 16-17, 17-18, 18-19

Cronaldo
Trophies (30) UCL (5), League (7), Cup (6), FCWC (4), USC (2), SC (6)
Ballon d'Or (5) 08, 13, 14, 16, 17
Golden Shoe (4) 07-08, 10-11, 13-14, 14-15
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Post by Kebab Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:49 pm

Accomplished more lol. CR would gladly exchange his achievements with messi's especially 7 ballon dors and 6 golden shoes. And Messi achieved all that in 150 less games than CR. If you convert it to years its almost 3 years less

Harmonica owned it again Laughing

Plus its messi who is going to win 2 ballons in last 3 years yet some CR fans say their idol was better than messi in last 3 years. Why? because he didnt score in ligue 1 yet.
He played only 310 minutes or something, divide it to 90 its only 3 full games. And he played most of them half injured, plus big change in his life and career. how can you write off everything because of it :facepalm:
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Post by futbol_bill Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:49 pm

Admins, please change heading to ‘Another Messi fanboy thread’ as that is what it has become!
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Post by FennecFox7 Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:14 pm

futbol_bill wrote:Admins, please change heading to ‘Another Messi fanboy thread’ as that is what it has become!


It’s incredible. They troll this board to the point where it’s unreadable. You have your reasonable fans like Cas and cruijff encouraging great conversation, then you have a swath of messi fans trolling as soon as Ronaldo has ONE bad match..
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Post by Lord Awesome Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:32 am

I'd say it's just Messi fans clutching at the fact Messi's underperformed at PSG lately whereas Ronaldo keeps a consistent form no matter where he goes Laughing
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Post by Winter is Coming Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:18 pm

The amount of time this man goes invincible is truly a work of consistency! Has declined all the team he has gone to post Madrid, who are worse with him then they were without.

Nevertheless both these players rely on good teammates and coaching it's not hard for their obsessed craze fan base to recognize this, Ronaldo career has been built off of some of the best players and managers, yet his fans think this man does it on his own Laughing one advantage Ronaldo has had is better coaching.

I mean who are CR top 5 managers?

1. Sir Alex
2. Jose Mourinho
3. Carlo
4. Zidane
5. EuroMax

Messi

1. Rijkaard
2. Pep
3. Tito
4. Enrique
5. EV

I mean do people see the gap there? Messi is coached by largely Sarri, Pirlo, Ole, Santos level coaches here, we all see how coaches like this is going for Ronaldo. Messi has never had a WC coach, just imagine Barcelona team over the past decade with an actual WC coach would've achieved along side prime Messi.
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Post by FennecFox7 Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:28 pm

Imagine calling Enrique, pep, and rijkaard not good coaches
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Post by Casciavit Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:34 pm

None of them were proven at the time of hiring. Only Pep is generally considered world class from that list. Do people even consider Luis Enrique world class?

Come to think of it Barto was all about signing galactico players at Barca but he never did the same with coaches. Laughing
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Post by Winter is Coming Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:37 pm

FennecFox7 wrote:Imagine calling Enrique, pep, and rijkaard not good coaches


I'm not particularly calling them bad coaches, but that's generally the notation here and among football fans no? "PeP iS a BaLd FrAuD" " MeSsi CaRrIeD hIs CaReEr" "EnrIQuE AcHiEvEd NoThInG pRiOr tO BaRcElOnA" "mEsSI/MsN CaRrIeD hIm" etc.
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Post by Winter is Coming Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:10 pm

Casciavit wrote:None of them were proven at the time of hiring. Only Pep is generally considered world class from that list. Do people even consider Luis Enrique world class?

Come to think of it Barto was all about signing galactico players at Barca but he never did the same with coaches. Laughing


Because they wanted managers they could control, largely Beta level coaches, only Enrique post Pep was more outspoken (Alpha like) hence why he left after his third year.
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Post by FennecFox7 Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:46 pm

I just think all these arguments are stupid. Both players are nearing the end of their careers. Yet we have the resident trolls just talking mad shit about a grandpa who everyone thought wouldn’t be playing at this age. Both players have different traits and strengths and as a fan of football I respect both, but the trolls come in after every bad game and just derail everything
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Post by El Gunner Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:00 pm

@FennecFox7 personally, i only respond to illogical anti-Messi arguments and to the belief by some that Ronaldo is in the GOAT debate tbh... one thing might lead to another and that's only when you will see me bringing up Ronaldo's negative points as player in these discussions (it's not to take away from his achievements, but just to try and point out how stupid it is to think he is on Messi's level). And yes Messi has his cons too, but he is hugely a more graceful and better player than Ronaldo overall.

Besides that I always pay respect to Ronaldo's positive traits.
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Post by Thimmy Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:02 pm

Yeah, they're not similar at all. They're very good at different things, and I admire how they've both been at the top of the game for a long time. I couldn't care less who's better, personally, but we're in the hyperbole business, so one has to be GOAT and the other one a worm beneath the earth.
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Post by Chad31 Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:08 pm

Messi is a way better footballer and leader than cr, this shouldn't even be a debate for years cr fans keep using cr goals as a indicator for his goat case, which is ridiculous cause his overall performances and workrate has been rubbish for longtime even in his prime, doesn't help with build up, defense or hold the shape of the formation, can't even sub him or give him instructions for tactical reasons, very selfish and self serving player doesn't care about winning games or trophies, cause no one is gonna criticize him if he scores a certain amount of goals, which is why that argument has always been wrong imo.

He ruined juve and manu, I have been saying for years the amount talent on real Madrid was the real reason why he could pad his stats and win things, especially how much he was ruining benzema rep what a leader, I have stated this years ago real Madrid could have easily won more if it wasn't for his selfishness and disappearing acts, I'm 1000% sure flo was happy to see him leave, I was as well surprise surprise the team is more or less at the same level.

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Post by BarcaLearning Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:36 pm

So wtf has CR been doing to justify his name tag of the greatest ever? And that we haters should stfu? I definitely wont now that hes failed to save Ole LOOOOOL~

This is unacceptable CR, u arent even close to winning a Ballon D'or again, n Messi being the favourite again, what r u doing? Razz

Yea n I was answers from those whos criticising MEssi at PSG atm, so CR is in comparison making Man U worst and now their manager getting sacked. Wont be surprised if he asked his bosses to do it and implement a manager he likes instead? Razz
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Post by titosantill Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:56 am

cristiano and messi are old....people talking like they should be playing how they did at 26. cristiano's closer to freaking 40 years old. who's better? messi, simply because of the eye test. based on what i watch, i dont need stats, codes or some doctorate in football to tell me what i can see. and that's no knock on cristiano

cristiano not being able to carry juve, portugal and utd at 35/36 yrs old (pele maradona zidane r9 all were practically out the game at that age) doesnt poopoo his achievements in a 16 year career. top 2 player all time in madrid and united's history, and if not top 5 definitely top 10 in football all time period....i dont care who doesnt like it
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Post by Lord Awesome Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:55 am

BarcaLearning wrote:So wtf has CR been doing to justify his name tag of the greatest ever? And that we haters should stfu?

Winning games, winning trophies, breaking records, and apparently never really stop scoring even at his age...

The part in bold is your folly there. Everyone has tastes and opinions but I think when someone qualifies themselves a hater then their opinions cannot be anything but biased and therefore not credible.
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Post by Clutch Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:28 am

You all are on to something, never seen this debate on the internet before. I'm sure we can civilly get to the bottom of this

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Post by BarcaLearning Fri Dec 24, 2021 3:03 pm

https://www.espn.com.sg/soccer/juventus-itajuventus/story/4555985/gianluigi-buffon-on-cristiano-ronaldo-juventus-lost-team-dna-after-players-arrival

Pretty interesting that Buffon is saying the same thing in addition to other Juve players have said b4 that CR power also negatively affected the team as in there werent a healthy competition within the squad due to him hogging the chances I take it?
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