What do u Cules think of Pep now?

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Post by BarcaLearning Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:39 pm

Just curious as to what every's take on Pep now? Is he a fraud like many are saying now and some have been for a long while? Is he still a genius that the Man C players need to time to adapt? Or perhaps hes just in between another good manager that has strong and weaknesses?
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Post by Winter is Coming Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:45 pm

wtf is this....
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:35 am

You serious man?
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Post by FennecFox7 Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:38 am

Not a barca fan but pep has a pretty average squad at City, the people on the general forum are way too harsh on him bc the players themselves aren't showing up. I can go into detail but that's basically it

I watched both legs vs Monaco and that's not his fault. come on.
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Post by Winter is Coming Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:58 am

Nothing wrong with people having an opinion or constructive criticism for that matter. Even if City squad isn't as good, it was good enough to get by Monaco.

Pep made a few mistakes, such as not starting Toure nor bring him on in the 2nd half, also it was suicidal of him to make KdB play further back (especially in the 2nd half) when he was having a horrible game losing possession and make unnecessary tackles (his foul led to Monaco 3rd goal).

But at the end the fact is he's inherited an aging squad (read somewhere 13 of 26 players were at the age of 30+), has a few young players. It won't be easy compared to his other clubs, but I feel he'll come through at the end.

A lot of people throw hate his way is because some things you read online especially from bloggers or those people who write articles, make him out to be some god (I read some pretty cringe worthy stuff), despite the fact he himself doesn't and when he falls its easier for people to attack due to the hype.

I still rate him as a coach and believe he's fantastic and would take him back in a heart beat.
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Post by CM Pep Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:36 am

Still a fantastic coach. He'll acclimatize by the end of this season.
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Post by windkick Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:11 am

Ridiculous if anyone is doubting him because he is working with a broken team. It's like putting a world class race car driver in a faulty car and blaming him for not winning every lap.
He's still a genius, the work he's done since the day he became manager speaks for itself. He currently has a team which he inherited that has the same issues in the backline that it had before under Pellegrini. Bravo was suppose to strengthen the back and he ended up getting old over night sees like, and Gundogan who was brought him to bring stability to the midfield to perfect the Pep system got injured (why am I not surprised).
So pretty much all the moves the board tried to put together for Pep to work his magic failed (forgot to mention they invested heavy in Stones who's not clicking with Otamandi...who also sucks. and Jesus got injured like 3 games in so now Aguero is gonna get over worked and you also have really old full backs that look more and more tired as the season goes on) and even then he still has City fighting and in a good place in the PL, in the FA Cup Semis and got his team to give it their all against a Monaco that's currently the highest scoring team in Europe (last I checked).
Not sure why because he failed to win the treble every single season of his career it means he's over rated. People on these boards are ridiculous as hell with the short term memories (and understanding of football and how the strategy of the beautiful game works).

Peps a genius and it's a shame he would never return.
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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:37 am

Im just raising the questions since so many divided opinions it seems on Pep, and my take has been hes good, but nothing like the genius or god like best manager in the world kind of thing some ppl thinks he is, and obviously not a fraud. I think a lot of ppl especially in this board keep calling him board is exactly that they cant stand some of the hype for him.

Anyway, even back in his Barca days there were many occasions which I thought he didnt get it right, and frustrating the most to me is he is too stubborn to change. I think over the years hes adapted and improved. But still for example earlier in the season the way he setup his team in the EPL sometimes was just suicide and his post match interviews was pretty naive the way he complained refs and style of play, etc. So I think hes also got flaws and weaknesses, some of which is not good enough to make his team to win titles. I mean other managers have caught up. Its inevitable and natural, all top managers need to evolve and keep up with the game.

Now after all, hes got knocked out, be it close and by a very good Monaco side, so its only fair ppl criticize him, since he did get some things wrong. I dont buy the fact that so many players let him down at the same time, if so its gotta do with the way he hasnt been able to get his players to perform at their best. Injuries sure bad luck.

Overall, Im gonna wait to see rest of the season and the start of the next to judge again. But Im not as confident about him as when he first joined Man C thats for sure.
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Post by Harmonica Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:13 am

Good coach, but overrated.
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Post by Bankz Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:00 am

Lol, if this were some other coach the barca fans would be tearing him up now. Yes, he is a good coach but hipster at best nothing more. He i'snt even close to being a genius people are making him out to be without messi saving his ass all day long. Certainly not in the fergie/ancelotti/sacci/del bosque league imo.
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Post by jibers Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:50 am

@Bankz wrote:Lol, if this were some other coach the barca fans would be tearing him up now. Yes, he is a good coach but hipster at best nothing more. He i'snt even close to being a genius people are making him out to be without messi saving his ass all day long. Certainly not in the fergie/ancelotti/sacci/del bosque league imo.



Bankz what did Sacchi win without van Basten? Flopped on his return to Milan losing 6-1 to Juve!  6-1...then flopped at Atletico Madrid leading them to 13th when they finshed 7th the seaosn before. So I cannot understand how you can place Saachi above him.

He also won  a pathetic 1 Serie A title. The European Cups he won were arguably in the weakest era because English clubs were banned when Everton was staring to become a force and Liverpool where the #1 in that era.

Pep has influnced the game to a higher level than Sacchi ever did. Every team is now using the Lavolpiana exit because of Pep. Literally almost EVERY single top level team because of his coaching influnce. He is up there with Chapman, Ernst Happel, Rinus Michel, Sacchi and Cruyff in terms of greatest coaches. He is in the very top category.

And you putting SAF name near a coaching list is laughable.  He was a sub par coach. He stopped hands on coaching in around 93 and eft it up to his assistants. He was one of the best in the psychological aspects and man management though.

Del Bosque. Lol. The same Ancelotti that lost a 4-1 lead and is a bonafide league bum. Lost a 3-0 lead in a final but because Pep went out for the first time in his career at this stage he is ovverated.

Maybe ovverated by people time hat place to high an expectation on him.
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Post by Bankz Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:27 am

Ancelotti is a proven goat. He never had a team remotely as good as peps and no not even milan were even close to being as good a team as barca 2009-2012 and even at that carlo has always won the trophies wherever he went. Pep has only won shit with barca. He dominated the german league (something even my grand mother would do), that carlo himself is dominating now, took over the best team on the planet and turned then into cl chockers, went to the epl and is struggling for top 4. Look, even with a far far lesser talented squad, fergie was still goating and winning pl titles, CL's and was cl finalist on a couple of occasions too.
Even he is equally shit when it comes to man management too, always had problems with players everywhere he went, something ancelotti trumps him in. Even ibra managed to have one of his worse seasons in 9 yeas under pep. Carlo, sacci, fergie are a level above him imo, Unlike pep who happened to have the greatest squad ever assembled. How many did he actually take credit for signing?
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Post by free_cat Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:32 pm

I can't tear up a coach that has tremendously suceeded in 6 of his 7 active seasons so far. It looke that he will fail this season, making it 6/8. Great record still.
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Post by CM Pep Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:46 pm

@Bankz wrote:Ancelotti is a proven goat. He never had a team remotely as good as peps and no not even milan were even close to being as good a team as barca 2009-2012 and even at that carlo has always won the trophies wherever he went. Pep has only won shit with barca. He dominated the german league (something even my grand mother would do), that carlo himself is dominating now, took over the best team on the planet and turned then into cl chockers, went to the epl and is struggling for top 4. Look, even with a far far lesser talented squad, fergie was still goating and winning pl titles, CL's and was cl finalist on a couple of occasions too.
Even he is equally shit when it comes to man management too, always had problems with players everywhere he went, something ancelotti trumps him in. Even ibra managed to have one of his worse seasons in 9 yeas under pep. Carlo, sacci, fergie are a level above him imo, Unlike pep who happened to have the greatest squad ever assembled. How many did he actually take credit for signing?


Won't get into the comparisons because it's just too much hogwash.

But let me come to the Barca aspect - people forget that he made that team play the way he did and yes, he assembled it to good degree.

Revisionists try to come in saying that Aragones got Xavi playing CM. But actually the way we saw Xavi play in Barca was because of Guradiola. Not only did he stop Xavi from leaving (http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spanish-football/2015/09/15/15378442/xavi-guardiola-stopped-me-joining-bayern-munich) but also got him to play a bigger role (http://arxiu.fcbarcelona.cat/web/english/noticies/futbol/temporada08-09/07/n080731102651.html) in attack.

There was a time when it was perceived that Xavi-Iniesta is not a good partnership. Lol did he change that. Who got Busquets promoted, that too for an experienced Toure? And who even experimented with Messi in the middle (Hint: 09 CL Final).

He got Pique back (who was described as abysmal at United). But Pep saw potential in him.

Were all his buys good? Definitely not. He got the likes of Caceres and Hleb and Ibra and Fabregas. Will never forget Chygrinskiy LOL.

He's not the most efficient of buyers, but he does finally assemble a good team.

If past seasons are to go by, I am sure he will do well at City in the end. And please find me one manager who has won as much as he has and not had even a single bad season? What an unreal expectation.
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Post by Winter is Coming Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:59 pm

"Anyway, even back in his Barca days there were many occasions which I thought he didnt get it right"

Really? He won 14 of 19 titles and he didn't get it right... Laughing

Man I bet all the clubs in the world would wish for manager like that who doesn't get things right but still wins 14 titles in 4 years Smile
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Post by Winter is Coming Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:11 pm

@Bankz wrote:Ancelotti is a proven goat. He never had a team remotely as good as peps and no not even milan were even close to being as good a team as barca 2009-2012 and even at that carlo has always won the trophies wherever he went. Pep has only won shit with barca. He dominated the german league (something even my grand mother would do), that carlo himself is dominating now, took over the best team on the planet and turned then into cl chockers, went to the epl and is struggling for top 4. Look, even with a far far lesser talented squad, fergie was still goating and winning pl titles, CL's and was cl finalist on a couple of occasions too.
Even he is equally shit when it comes to man management too, always had problems with players everywhere he went, something ancelotti trumps him in. Even ibra managed to have one of his worse seasons in 9 yeas under pep. Carlo, sacci, fergie are a level above him imo, Unlike pep who happened to have the greatest squad ever assembled. How many did he actually take credit for signing?


And why was the squad the greatest assembled? When Pep took over we went 2 years without a title and finished 3rd 17 points behind Madrid, as well as getting our asses hand to us by them 4-1...he came in and all of a sudden we went to the top, but you seem to not give him any credit for that.

Alonso who's been coached by del Bosque, Mou, Rafa and Carlo said,

"We all wanted Guardiola to remain," Xabi Alonso reflected.

"He is the best coach I've ever worked with."

Pep, has good relationship with his players (far from being a sh!t man manager) just because he's had a few off doesn't change the fact. Many players at Barca and RM have praised Pep for his work and how he's helped them become better footballers. Gundo even said when he was at Dortmund the players always use to talk about how Pep set up BM and how it would become a pain to deal with certain situation in the game because he would change i constantly.
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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:44 pm

Good to see so many discussions, and still so divided opinions, its fascinating Very Happy

Winter, he definitely won a lot but no one is perfect and he did get things wrong on numerous occasions. Remember Mou's Inter beat him best example, Chelsea beat him ffs, Real eventually caught up and Pep left in the end losing out remember. Now at Man C hes clearing made and making mistakes so. Hes clearly good, but not perfect and has weaknesses.
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Post by Winter is Coming Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:29 am

I fail to understand what your trying to imply then? He's not perfect as no one is yet which everyone agrees with and yet your complaining about him not being perfect... Laughing
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:59 am

@free_cat wrote:I can't tear up a coach that has tremendously suceeded in 6 of his 7 active seasons so far. It looke that he will fail this season, making it 6/8. Great record still.
"Fail": 2nd place in the prem, losing in the CL by an admonishing 6-6 score. Still in the FA cup semifinals.
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Post by windkick Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:27 am

Yea I again stress what I've said earlier. His body of work and level of success, along with the amazingly awesome attacking football he has shown since the day he became manager speaks for itself. Him failing to win a treble every single season doesn't make him a fraud, if anything he just has a super high standard that if not met people will say he always sucked or had help etc.

He's still having a damn good season even with the UCL exit; people forget Monaco is actually kicking allot of ass this season and style wise were a bad match up for that crap defense City's been having for a few years now + Bravo isn't playing the way he did with us (he got benched and was suppose to be the guy to bring in stability to the way Pep likes to play). City was a broken side before Pep arrived, and the guys brought in to help fix those issues failed for various reasons (Gundogan, Gabriel Jesus both got injured and Bravo and Stones shit the bed. Otamendi has been shitting the bed and Kompany is always injured along with having nothing but old ass full backs). Pep had his team fighting to the end and is still in a good place to finish in the top 3 in a tight PL, plus is in the semis of the FA Cup. People act like he pulled a Mourinho with Chelsea last year and his team is struggling to not get relegated and all of a sudden can't get the best out of his players. Pep might be Pep, but City is still City. That team will take a season or 2 to get it right with the players Pep needs,  and be all well and healthy. To say Pep is some fraud, and all the tactical nuances he has done with his work is now gone because Monaco knocked them out is typical GL knee jerk. I'm not saying he's the best manager that ever lived, but he's certainly one of the best of our generation or amongst them.
Yes he even got on my nerves during his last season at Barca, but I do commend him for trying to change things up and continue evolving, because he knew people were gonna figure out our "tika taka possession" style sooner or later and he always wanted to be ahead of the curb. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't, but the man is constantly trying to perfect the game
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Post by Harmonica Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:11 am

Jury is still out with him, he made both Bayern and ManC worse from Heynckes and Pellegrinis last seasons. He made Barcelona better, but then again Messi was maturing and already affecting the games individually. 08-09 season was a team/coach performance and it's his prime at this point, then Messi became better and team relied more on him than Guardiola's tactics. I mean when Enrique came, Barca were woeful first half, then Messi changed formation and boom, a treble. Now was Enrique a great coach? It's hard to judge when you have Messi on your team.
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Post by free_cat Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:14 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@free_cat wrote:I can't tear up a coach that has tremendously suceeded in 6 of his 7 active seasons so far. It looke that he will fail this season, making it 6/8. Great record still.
"Fail": 2nd place in the prem, losing in the CL by an admonishing 6-6 score. Still in the FA cup semifinals.


Yeah, but I really thought he would win the premier league. He has a solid team, it doesn't look any worse than Chelsea's, but probably having CL is a handicap that shows a lot in the PL.
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Post by windkick Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:38 am

Think so? I think Conte inherited a younger team that perfectly fit his style. While Pep inherited a team that has some issues along with an aging often injured backline, and to mention the team he inherited didn't fit his style of play. Chelsea had an off season last year, but pretty much that same squad ran away with the title the year before that.

With Chelsea, Conte got two midfielders that work perfectly in his system with Kante and Matic, and wide wingers in Pedro, Hazard, Azpilicueta, Alonso and Moses that perfectly fit that 3 at the back type of play. Also has a solid keeper in Courtouis and a league leading scorer in Costa, a EPL player of the year in Hazard and more importantly that entire team is accustomed to fighting to the end under the previous managers. Also non of the starters are really injury prone, or old. When they struggled last year it wasn't because of players, it was because of Mourinho having a typical 3rd season brain fart. But the previous year they walked the league. Also take into account they got booted out the C1 Cup pretty early and didn't have any sort of European games to play so they could rest up in that tough EPL schedule.

Pep on the other hand inherited a team that barely finished 4rth, and had glaring need of help all over the back line and didn't have a real holding/creative mid that his system requires. Also didn't have a solid alternate striking option nor a good enough winger (in other words they needed to replace that trash Navas). So the club did it's best job to get the players he needed to fix things up in all those areas. Nolito and Sane came in to help with the winger situation, and Jesus came in to help the striker situation. Gundogan was brought in to help the midfield to suit Peps style better (though they still lack a true CDM). Stones was brought in to help the CB issues because Kompany is always injured and Mangala wasn't working with Otamendi. 35 year old Caballero and Hart both didn't fit Peps build play from the back, so the club brought in Bravo who had just had an amazing season. So on paper, yes, that team is now pretty comparable and equal with Chelsea's, but the problem is all those guys they signed to make City click the way Pep likes to flow the game all got injured or shit the bed for the exception of Sane and Nolito (who is also often injured seems like, and benched by superior players). And not to mention the full backs on that team are ALL old and past it. That's a diet of Kolarov, Sagna, Clichy, and Zabaleta. So I mean if you compare the current teams I would argue Chelseas is allot better (plus add in City had a pretty hard group stage to also deal with in the Champions League, that Chelsea didn't)

Current squad

Courtouis > Caballero
Azpilicueta > Zabaleta
Cahill = Stones
Luiz = Otamendi
Alonso > Clichy
Kante > Yaya
Matic > Fernandinho
Hazard = De Bryne (maybe Hazard even takes it on form)
Pedro ? Sterling
Willian < Silva
Costa = Aguero

And not to mention all those Chelsea players perfectly fit into Conte's style of play. Not to mention Chelsea has Cesc and Moses on the bench vs Citys  Nolito and Sane

I think it would be a different story if Stones and Bravo panned out, Otamendi went back to his Valencia form, and Jesus, Kompany, and Gundogan didn't all get injured. Face it, that City side is pretty on paper but in reality has a serious amount of issues in the entire back line, and the keeper and the midfield is extremely unbalanced. Pep is working with a team in transition, not a team that's in prime form. All in all he still has them in the top 3 in the EPL and the semi's of the FA Cup. Not sure why people expected him to mow the league with that team. Give him another season or 2, after the dead weight is gone and the team is rebalanced and only then will we really see what's what. But right now I can't see how anybody could be doing better with that squad. It's doing about as good as it can.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:01 pm

@free_cat wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@free_cat wrote:I can't tear up a coach that has tremendously suceeded in 6 of his 7 active seasons so far. It looke that he will fail this season, making it 6/8. Great record still.
"Fail": 2nd place in the prem, losing in the CL by an admonishing 6-6 score. Still in the FA cup semifinals.


Yeah, but I really thought he would win the premier league. He has a solid team, it doesn't look any worse than Chelsea's, but probably having CL is a handicap that shows a lot in the PL.


I didn't, a coach like Pep who instills a new style into a team will always struggle at first as they experiment. You won't see them perform consistently until the 2nd season, especially in a league as competitive as the EPL. Conte is rather the exception than the rule. I did expect City to be better at this stage, but then again their only competent midfielder is Silva and having a good midfield is a requirement for a Pep team.
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Post by guest7 Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:23 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@free_cat wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote: "Fail": 2nd place in the prem, losing in the CL by an admonishing 6-6 score. Still in the FA cup semifinals.


Yeah, but I really thought he would win the premier league. He has a solid team, it doesn't look any worse than Chelsea's, but probably having CL is a handicap that shows a lot in the PL.


I didn't, a coach like Pep who instills a new style into a team will always struggle at first as they experiment. You won't see them perform consistently until the 2nd season, especially in a league as competitive as the EPL. Conte is rather the exception than the rule. I did expect City to be better at this stage, but then again their only competent midfielder is Silva and having a good midfield is a requirement for a Pep team.


Gundogan ?
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