Summer Transfer Window 2017 || Klopp Revolution back with a Vengeance

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Post by Curtinho Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:05 pm

@Red Alert wrote:Gini pisses me off. He's in the same tier as Joe Allen. If he wasn't dutch / you didn't watch him from when he was 16 you'd see he's a squad player, not a first team player. Yeah, he's done okay with couple of clutch goals against City and Chelsea this season, but he's not doing enough against the smaller sides. He's one of the few that goes missing when the system isn't working.

He's not though. He's good enough to be a first team player and has put in big performances in almost every big game we've had this season. The issues against the smaller sides are systemic. He's not a player that's going to take over the game single handedly and there are very few players in general that can do that. However he is far from the problem against smaller sides. I would keep him in the starting XI.

As far as this team is concerned there's some problems to consider. We need a 9. We need a starting quality CB to play when Lovren and/or Matip are injured (Gomez can provide a tertiary back-up role but will be very good I think). We need a leftback. We need a starting quality CM; I like the idea of an anchor/holder that can pass well (I like Illaramendi, Camacho or Kondogbia if Inter would move him).

Still that creates other issues. If we get all of those then Milner isn't going to be happy, neither will Lallana because he shouldn't be a starter. There'd only be room for one of Coutinho/Firmino in the side most games except when Coutinho is injured. This is why I still think that we should move to the 4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1. The needs remain the same but the depth and distribution of talent is a lot more even. Still, we could look like:

Karius
Clyne - Matip - Lovren - Kolasinac
Kondogbia
Henderson - Wijnaldum
Mané - Belotti? - Firmino

Whoever is playing on the left is going to be spending a lot more time drifting into the middle in something of an asymmetric diamond with Wijnaldum given freedom to drift/run into that outside space in attack. The striker position is a conundrum because it's so hard to buy a good one. Lukaku? Modeste? I'd have said Icardi but Inter are buyers right now and have a lot of money, though he would be perfect.

Anyway, the summer is going to be interesting for sure.

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Post by McAgger Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:54 pm

Kondogbia rofl Might as well stick Henderon, Wijnaldum, Lallana because all 3 are better.

And you are delusional to think Lallana will be getting benched for Henderson to play his position.

Under Klopp Hendo has played DM mostly and CM ONLY in a double pivot. Never a more attacking bot to box midfielder in a 3 like Lallana does. It's crazy to think that's the role he would take no matter how much you like it to be. If anything he'll probably play Gini's role if Klopp decides to move him up from DM.

As for Belotti, he needs to prove himself in another season and outside of Serie A. He reeks too much of Immobile. It's very hard to tell if he's legit or he's going to be another Serie A scrub outside the league.

It's going to be an interesting summer.

There are some sure things available out there like Van Dijk, Naby Keita, Tolisso that will improve us greatly, it's going to be heart breaking when we inevitably miss out them because we dicked around too long.
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Post by McAgger Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:00 pm

For a DM, if we want to go a similar route and target a passing creative protector then Paredes is going to be available and we will have a shot. He would be a great signing as he's more technically skilled than everyone bar Coutinho in our squad but we won't be alone pursuing him.

If we want to go another direction and get some actual steel in DM, I would love it if we brought N'Zonzi back to PL. He's been amazing at Sevilla. He's improved so much from his Stoke days. Also Krychowiak has gotten nearly zero game time at PSG this season. He would be up for sale. We cannot go wrong with either.
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Post by Curtinho Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:55 pm

Kondogbia is better than Lallana, and not only that but he offers some elements that we need in midfield. Strength, height, defensive ability and dribbling. He's been hot and cold at Inter but he has more potential as a player than any of our other midfielders (and I am very high on Wijnaldum's potential).

Except we already know that Henderson can operate as a monster B2B midfielder such as in the 13/14 season which makes full use of his engine, passing and late runs into the box. He was immense in that role, and he can't play the same role as Wijnaldum because he doesn't have the same first touch, ability to shield the ball nor one touch passing. Forget the players that don't even play for our team do you even watch the players on our team play? Laughing Lallana had a hot streak but is no more than a squad player for a team with Liverpool's ambitions -- he lacks the fortitude and consistency to be relied on if we want to consistently challenge for the top 4.

Belotti is more of a shot in the dark. Have read good things but I don't watch him consistently do you? That's why I also listed guys like Lukaku, Modeste and Icardi...Icardi would be ideal but again I think is beyond our reach. Dolberg is not a bad shot either though he's probably not ready to step in and be an instant starter he has all the attributes to be one of the next very good to elite strikers.
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Post by Curtinho Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:57 pm

Oh, and I guess I'm still interested in this Sardar Azmoun kid. I know he's young and playing in Russia plus coming from a non-traditional talent laden country...but every time I've seen him play he looks pretty legit. He has a really nice international scoring record, and he seems to keep improving his goal scoring at club level despite not being a first choice player. He seems to fit everything that Klopp would like also...he's a good size, works very hard, can finish and pick a pass. He doesn't seem overly technical but it's not something we really need ATM.
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Post by McAgger Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:47 pm

Kondogbia is not better than anyone here. You just have to ask Inter fans to tell you that if you won't believe me.

And Kondogbia is NOT a DM. Why the *bleep* would we sign another box to box CM and force him to play DM. It's useless, especially one that is inferior to all 3 of our current starters.

Hendo played a box to box role, yes. But not the offensive minded one in a midfield 3. Never the offensive minded one. Coutinho was the offensive minded one in that trio in 2013/14. If anything again you are speaking of the current box to box role Gini is occupying. I agree that that is his best position. He should not be a DM.
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Post by Red Alert Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:16 am

@Curtinho wrote:
He's not though. He's good enough to be a first team player and has put in big performances in almost every big game we've had this season. The issues against the smaller sides are systemic. He's not a player that's going to take over the game single handedly and there are very few players in general that can do that. However he is far from the problem against smaller sides. I would keep him in the starting XI.


It's not systemic. It's mentality.

You were all saying the same shit last season.

Apart from Burnley from round 2, we were fine against the smaller sides. Because the players actually turned up to games. They pressed as a unit. They didn't lose concentration all the time. They were switched on and didn't pass the ball sideways until we held a comfortable lead.

Gini is part of a massive problem against smaller sides. He's not going forward. He's not defending. What exactly does he do? How is he not a problem? He gets the ball and passes it to someone else so they can do something. We don't need to recycle the ball against the smaller sides.

Also... we are never going to sign Lukaku man. He plays for Everton. Not only are they our direct rivals but they're not exactly skint anymore. They have new owners, and are most likely going to sign Rooney this year. They have ambition now.

______________

Anyway, look's like Klopp's lost his patience with a lot of them. A lot of reports coming out now of a squad overhaul. I read he did the same thing at the end of his second season at Dortmund. He got rid of 8-10 players and ended up winning the league after that.

Klopp:
“We could have done with one or two players in January, when we had injury problems and the Africa Cup, but the transfer window didn’t give us any opportunity,” Klopp said. “We will be prepared for the summer window, for sure. We are working on it already – we might need between two and six players.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/mar/03/liverpool-jurgen-klopp-spend-transfers-summer

Dominic King also said this:
Jurgen Klopp is planning a summer overhaul of Liverpool's squad as he looks to end the inconsistency that has punctured their season.
It will have to be different when the transfer window opens, though, as Liverpool need a new left back, a central defender, a central midfielder and a striker — as well as a winger — and the club's scouting department have a number of options.
Julian Brandt, the Bayer Leverkusen wide man, is a prime target, as is Red Bull Leipzig's Naby Keita.
Leicester winger Demarai Gray is also under consideration. What is clear, however, is that Liverpool are prepared to invest heavily.
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Post by iftikhar Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:38 am

empire of the kop wrote:A report by reliable Liverpool correspondent Melissa Reddy in Goal claims that we’re properly interested in signing Red Bull Leipzig’s Naby Keita this summer.
How reliable is this Melissa Reddy???
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Post by Curtinho Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:22 pm

@Red Alert wrote:It's not systemic. It's mentality.

You were all saying the same shit last season.

Apart from Burnley from round 2, we were fine against the smaller sides. Because the players actually turned up to games. They pressed as a unit. They didn't lose concentration all the time. They were switched on and didn't pass the ball sideways until we held a comfortable lead.

Gini is part of a massive problem against smaller sides. He's not going forward. He's not defending. What exactly does he do? How is he not a problem? He gets the ball and passes it to someone else so they can do something. We don't need to recycle the ball against the smaller sides.

We can agree to disagree. It's a long talk to have about our current set up, mentality and lack of proper preparation against smaller sides but it's not simply a mentality issue (though that is part of it). Wijnaldum however is far from the issue. You're expecting something from him that isn't his job, nor should it be in the role he's been given by Klopp (though he has that ability to be more adventurous and offensive minded). Wijnaldum is always contributing to defence, and he also plays very smart in the offensive third of the pitch. He's just not wasteful and the lack of patience and attempts to force the ball usually ends up with it in the back of our net on the counter.

Make no mistake Wijnaldum has been one of our best players this season, he's been integral in every big game we've had and plays his role nearly to perfection. He is also still fairly young and has room to improve (and he will as he becomes more comfortable).

Anyway, look's like Klopp's lost his patience with a lot of them. A lot of reports coming out now of a squad overhaul. I read he did the same thing at the end of his second season at Dortmund. He got rid of 8-10 players and ended up winning the league after that.

Well he's spoken of bringing in 2 to 6 players this summer. I suspect/hope guys like Sturridge, Milner/Moreno, Can and Lucas will probably move on to accommodate this. Though maybe Can ends up staying despite not belonging.
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Post by Nishankly Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:29 pm

@iftikhar wrote:
empire of the kop wrote:A report by reliable Liverpool correspondent Melissa Reddy in Goal claims that we’re properly interested in signing Red Bull Leipzig’s Naby Keita this summer.
How reliable is this Melissa Reddy???


She's a 2.8/5, Dunno about reliability.
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Post by Unique Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:32 pm

I think we should have a look at dembele from celtic. did well for fullham and smashing it in Scotland.
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Post by iftikhar Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:47 am

@Unique wrote:I think we should have a look at dembele from celtic. did well for fullham and smashing it in Scotland.
Yes, but SPL (only about three relevant teams) and EPL are worlds apart. Could be another Markovic. And he would be costly.
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Post by Red Alert Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:47 am

Linked to Chamberlain from the Telegraph. I'm all for it. He and Sanchez are the only two players from Arsenal I respect.

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Post by iftikhar Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:53 pm

I would be so mad if they dump Gotze on us. Clubber Summer Transfer Window 2017 || Klopp Revolution back with a Vengeance  - Page 2 2276801876
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Post by Unique Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:11 pm

so it looks like Van Dijk. Naby Keita. julian brandt. sessegnon and lacazette are the players we are linked most with. I would take them tbh.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:05 pm

@Unique wrote:so it looks like Van Dijk. Naby Keita. julian brandt. sessegnon and lacazette are the players we are linked most with. I would take them tbh.


Let's make a bet that you get not a single one of them
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Post by Unique Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:11 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Unique wrote:so it looks like Van Dijk. Naby Keita. julian brandt. sessegnon and lacazette are the players we are linked most with. I would take them tbh.


Let's make a bet that you get not a single one of them
go away. man u ship jumpers are not welcome here :coffee:
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Post by McAgger Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:01 am

@Unique wrote:so it looks like Van Dijk. Naby Keita. julian brandt. sessegnon and lacazette are the players we are linked most with. I would take them tbh.


Lol that would be the most amazing summer window possible. So naturally it won't happen.
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Post by iftikhar Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:10 am

@Unique wrote:so it looks like Van Dijk. Naby Keita. julian brandt. sessegnon and lacazette are the players we are linked most with. I would take them tbh.
120 mil hmm

I can see Brandt and Sessegnon coming.
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Post by donttreadonred Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:32 pm

@Unique wrote:so it looks like Van Dijk. Naby Keita. julian brandt. sessegnon and lacazette are the players we are linked most with. I would take them tbh.
That's a certainly a good place to start. Even barring the actual names, we can glean a lot from the positions of the players that we're targeting.
Van Dijk - Starting CB
Naby Keita - CM
Julian Brandt - WF/AM
Ryan Sessegnon - LB
Alexandre Lacazette - ST/CF

Obviously we need a starting CB to partner Matip, and Van Dijk is the easiest "plug-and-play" option. There might be better long-term options out there (Jonathan Tah, Victor Lindelof, etc.), but he's likely the easiest to bed-in and would make sense if we're looking to win things next season.

Naby Keita could be a great signing. However, part of me worries that he would be a replacement for Can in the squad. I think we need at least 1 addition in midfield, and that goes up to 2 if Can leaves. If Can leaves, I would like to see more of a specialist for the deeper, "regista" position in the 4-3-3 or a devoted destroyer if we move to a 4-2-3-1 (more on that later). In our current setup, we currently have 4 players for 3 spots.(Maybe 5 depending on your take on Grujic's progress. I can't see Ejaria/Branagan/etc. being ready for next season). We would need at least 5 should we make Europe.

Brandt looks like a player, but I'm curious to see how he'd be used next season. I can't imagine him truly usurping one of our current front three, but I do think he could provide cover in all three positions. The few times I've gotten to watch Leverkusen this season, he's actually played more as a CAM/CF with free reign to float. This isn't terribly dissimilar from Firmino... Jsut a thought, but I think he could step into that false9/enabling-CF role for us, if needed. His signing would also allow us to play him and Mane either side of Firmino and drop Phil deeper in some matches. This move might help us open up the low-block teams that have given us fits so far this season.

Sessegnon, I don't know much about... I've heard good things, but I've never once seen him play. What worries me is that he might be our ONLY LB signing. He'd be a good alternative to TAA on the opposite side, but he shouldn't be a regular (nor should Milner, at LB). We need either a starting LB or a backup to Moreno. Sessegnon might be able to be that backup. However, we've barely seen Moreno, which doesn't give us much to base any confidence on.

Lacazette... This is where things get truly interesting. First off, I love Lacazette as a player, and I've been banging the "sign Lacazette" drum around here for years. I do think his signing would signal at least a slight tactical shift. Obviously, he's more of a traditional #9 than Bobby. Now, we've seen in some instances Klopp preferring a true ST in his 4-3-3, and he could certainly do that for us. However, signing a top-class CF opens up the possibility of playing our current front 3 behind a true ST. I do think this could also hinge on the recruitment of a more robust midfielder, as well. I think we currently have exactly one CM pairing that could function well in a double-pivot (and the selection might surprise people...). At the very least, signing a true ST (and the requisite midfielder) gives us the ability to add a secondary setup of 4-2-3-1 in certain situations. Moreover, bouncing between two preferred setups allows us to slowly incorporate Lacazette, as he may need a bit of adjustment coming to a new country/league.

Expected lineups with those signings:
4-3-3
Firmino
Coutinho_______________Mane
Wijnaldum_____Keita*
Emre Can
Moreno____________________Clyne
Van Dijk*___Matip
Karius
4-2-3-1
Lacazette*
Coutinho_____Firmino_____Mane
Wijnaldum___Emre Can
Moreno____________________Clyne
Van Dijk*___Matip
Karius
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Post by Unique Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:17 pm

I like the look of the 4-2-3-1 but I would swap out can for Henderson.
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Post by McAgger Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:46 pm

Moreno should not be anywhere near Liverpool next season.
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Post by donttreadonred Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:53 pm

@Unique wrote:I like the look of the 4-2-3-1 but I would swap out can for Henderson.

I like Henderson, but I've never been convinced by him in a double-pivot. For some reason, it never seems comfortable for him. Can on the other hand, is a natural in the role. With Gini, whose defensive workrate this season has really impressed me, I think Can would exceed Henderson in that particular role.

I only posted my preferred lineup. With those additions mentioned above, and the assumption of a European competition, we could see plenty of the "alternative" pairing of Henderson and Keita or a mix and match based on fatigue and situational need. Based on recent performances, I'd suggest that Wijnaldum is the only LFC midfielder that is close to receiving an automatic starting place. Can has been immense in the last few matches, but there are obvious questions about his long-term future.

Don't call me James wrote:Moreno should not be anywhere near Liverpool next season.

I actually think Moreno has done well when he's come into the team this year. He just hasn't had many opportunities. Now, that could be because Klopp doesn't trust him. If so, then fair enough... He should go. However, my point in the above post is that our current rumored targets don't suggest that we're getting an immediate replacement. Sessegnon, while a promising talent, would a buy for the future.

With no incoming starting LB and Milner being targeted week-in/week-out, I would imagine that Klopp might opt for Moreno long-term. You also have to remember that Milner's selection likely has a lot to do with Klopp's lack of faith in the back line. If we establish CB and CM pairings that can solidfy the defense, then the LB would be given more license to get forward (Moreno's forte and a deficiency of Milner's in that role).
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Post by Red Alert Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:31 am

Moreno has not done well this year. He will also be sold.

We really need to give Can a new contract, but typical Liverpool newspaper / PR / board / upper management / whoever the *bleep* it is has a stupid obsession of leaking shit to the papers to turn fans from players. Same thing was done with Sterling, same thing happening now with Can. Incompetency. Opta.

Starting CB, LB, CM, wide forward and a pacy 9 will be a great summer. We really do need to finish in the top 4 though. Let's hope this squad can actually achieve it......

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Post by Red Alert Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:35 am

@donttreadonred wrote:Can has been immense in the last few matches, but there are obvious questions about his long-term future.


Also disagree here. Can has had a very inconsistent year. Let that be with injuries, adapting to a new role, or whatever. Even maybe playing the same role as other players on the pitch. I do not know. But he IS talented. And has massive potential. He was easily our best midfielder last season when Klopp came in, and was a key player in our European run. There IS a reason CL teams are looking over his contract issue, and there is a reason Klopp and both Low see something in him.

Think Klopp just came out in his City presser saying there's no issue and they'll sign. Which will be good news.

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Post by McAgger Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:45 am

Can won't be sold or let go without Klopp's approval. If he's sold it means Klopp wanted him sold.

I frankly don't care either way. He's a productive squad player right now with potential to get better. And at the same time he's not some irreplaceable piece that I will lose sleep over if he were sold.
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