In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

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Post by Turok_TTZ on Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:55 am

Results > style. Having said that, we play less than maximum potential, but so long as we win it won't matter.

Playing "bad" yet still winning can only be a good thing.
We're not that bad. Mere exaggerations. Zidane could be doing better but he has done well so far.

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Post by Thimmy on Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:33 pm

@Turok_TTZ wrote:Results > style. Having said that, we play less than maximum potential, but so long as we win it won't matter.

Playing "bad" yet still winning can only be a good thing.
We're not that bad. Mere exaggerations. Zidane could be doing better but he has done well so far.


Well, I can only speak for myself, but the thing that annoys me the most about Zidane is that some people are making excuses for him solely based on the fact that the team has been doing relatively well since he became coach. Anyone who's watched the games we've played over the past 2 seasons, know that if it wasn't for a good amount of luck, individual performances and a shit ton of fluky comebacks in the league, the team would be struggling. Naturally, all of these things are part of the game, but regardless of Sport's attempts at proving that Zidane is a misunderstood, tactical genius, it's become very evident to me that he lacks the tactical know-how befitting of a top team. Winning and drawing games through individual brilliance and last moment efforts is all good and dandy, but it's not sustainable.

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Post by Turok_TTZ on Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:18 pm

@Thimmy wrote:
@Turok_TTZ wrote:Results > style. Having said that, we play less than maximum potential, but so long as we win it won't matter.

Playing "bad" yet still winning can only be a good thing.
We're not that bad. Mere exaggerations. Zidane could be doing better but he has done well so far.


Well, I can only speak for myself, but the thing that annoys me the most about Zidane is that some people are making excuses for him solely based on the fact that the team has been doing relatively well since he became coach. Anyone who's watched the games we've played over the past 2 seasons, know that if it wasn't for a good amount of luck, individual performances and a shit ton of fluky comebacks in the league, the team would be struggling. Naturally, all of these things are part of the game, but regardless of Sport's attempts at proving that Zidane is a misunderstood, tactical genius, it's become very evident to me that he lacks the tactical know-how befitting of a top team. Winning and drawing games through individual brilliance and last moment efforts is all good and dandy, but it's not sustainable.

Luck is a variable often ignored. Having said that, one could have said the same for SAF's manutd. They too had comebacka and results often from going down first.

While I won't deny that Zidane could be better with tactics, fact of the matter is that the current situation are players mostly not the tactics. If our boys take the games more seriously, we would have the league secured by now. I do not think I need to remind us that some of our boys have been lazy this season. Lazy even this late into the season. If I were Zidane, I'd focus more on getting the team to bring more intensity and stop slacking around. Our tactics are fine.

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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:18 am

@Thimmy wrote:Well, I can only speak for myself, but the thing that annoys me the most about Zidane is that some people are making excuses for him solely based on the fact that the team has been doing relatively well since he became coach. Anyone who's watched the games we've played over the past 2 seasons, know that if it wasn't for a good amount of luck, individual performances and a shit ton of fluky comebacks in the league, the team would be struggling. Naturally, all of these things are part of the game, but regardless of Sport's attempts at proving that Zidane is a misunderstood, tactical genius, it's become very evident to me that he lacks the tactical know-how befitting of a top team. Winning and drawing games through individual brilliance and last moment efforts is all good and dandy, but it's not sustainable.

If you're going to speak like this, then you have my permission to attach my name to yours.

Beautiful post. +1

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Post by sportsczy on Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:48 pm

Reason we're inconsistent on the attack is that Ronaldo has become inconsistent (more bad than good).... and he's the complete focus up front. You don't have to look farther than that. Age is catching up to him. And the problem is that you can't really take the focus away from him until he allows you to or he leaves...

2-33 years ago, Ronaldo was in last years if his prime and, thus, we were a consistent attacking team.

Doesn't help that Bale is continuously injured so he can't pick up the load either. And when he's back, he's rusty so it takes a while. You literally only get 10-15 proper games from him a year.

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Post by futbol_bill on Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:47 pm

Strange isn't it that only one poster keeps giving excuses while the rest of us agree completely with Timmy!

The way this is going, we likely won't be winning any trophies this season. There are no more easy opponents left in CL and there are still difficult games left in liga, not that we shine all the time against less talented teams. I don't think we have any reasons to be optimistic and certainly it doesn't make sense to write this all off to one player.

Only good news is that if Zidane does end up blowing this season, it should be the impedous of a team makeover.
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Post by sportsczy on Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:20 pm

Most Madrid fans tend to change how they think with the slightest breeze...  so excuse me for not really paying a whole lot of attention lol.  Being spoiled and entitled doesn't make for the greatest of fanbases in terms of their assessment of things.

We win today and we're on top of La Liga and we're in the CL quarters. When was the last time we were on top of Liga at this stage? Mourinho's second year in 2011-2012. 5 years.

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Post by Doc on Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:19 pm

I have all reasons to be optimistic though. We are still very much in pole position to win La Liga and still in the UCL and I still have seen way worst Madrid sides over my (young-ish) years of watching this club.

That being said, Zidane really does waste an entire half of football with some very maddening choices in his set up, be it tactics and/or player choices.

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Post by Turok_TTZ on Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:24 pm

Bill, we're in a very good position to win the league. The CL may be difficult but we're still relatively comfortable. The ordinary Barcelona just lost today in the league. We have one extra game.
As things stand, we got everything within reach. Make no mistake. It's our league title to lose.

I do not understand the negativity. Maybe if we're trailing by 6points  I would understand better. But according to you and some others, we're a mess of a team on the brink of collapse.
A team on the brink who is currently in Kroos control to La Liga.
Yes we have been lucky here and there and yes we have struggled but we're still winning. That's just the nature of the game.  

And reading your post bill, it almost sounds like you actually want Zidane gone. What's wrong with you?  A shame about the CDR but we've actually got good odds of winning the league and here you are shitting on Real madrid's chances? You living in an alternative world, believing alternative facts? Reality is quite different from what you're attempting to portray and argue.

Learn to have faith in your team, Bill. Have faith in your coach.
And that goes for the rest of y'all who remain in doubt. Once again, we're in a very good spot. Sure the team is lucky here and there but that doesn't diminish what progress we've made.

It seems in my absence, some of ye have lost faith in this great team of ours... Yes there can be improvements, yes we have been fortunate. But consider this also: what does it say about our opposition that they have not been able to take advantage of our so called luck and shoddy team? Zidane is doing an excellent job keeping this team competitive. Being pessimistic and admitting defeat before the fight is over... Absolutely Disgusting.

We have been in much darker places than this. Or has winning two CLs in 3 years made everyone forget the darker days of Real Madrid? Have faith in our team, have faith in Zidane. I fully trust Zidane to get it right. And he will. Our current situation is nothing like the dark days when the league was a foregone conclusion and being knocked out of CL. Remember this well those who remain in doubt. We're still in it to win it. We have the keys to our own fate. And in these times are when we must have faith in our team. I expect more out of you lot.


Last edited by Turok_TTZ on Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by El Kommander on Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:28 pm

Some of you so called 'fans' are deluded. Our philosophy has always been to win. Not to play tiki taka and hug the ball. We are in plcae to win the league and Champions league double and sealing our place as the greatest team in the modern era if we retain it.

First you guys complain that Ronaldo is selfish, he becomes our main playmaker and you still aren't satisfied. You are now complaining about our team when we are walking the Liga. Do some of you have no shame? Madrid isn't about tactics as Rafa Benitez showed when he came here. It is about managing personalities. It's as if some of you just picked Madrid out of a hat to support without knowing our history.

This forum never ceases to amaze me...
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:37 pm

@El Kommander wrote:Some of you so called 'fans' are deluded. Our philosophy has always been to win. Not to play tiki taka and hug the ball. We are in plcae to win the league and Champions league double and sealing our place as the greatest team in the modern era if we retain it.

First you guys complain that Ronaldo is selfish, he becomes our main playmaker and you still aren't satisfied. You are now complaining about our team when we are walking the Liga. Do some of you have no shame? Madrid isn't about tactics as Rafa Benitez showed when he came here. It is about managing personalities. It's as if some of you just picked Madrid out of a hat to support without knowing our history.

This forum never ceases to amaze me...
how about you

1) dont insult or call people deluded because they have a different opinion than yours

2) stop thinking that your understanding pf what madrid is, is universal. RM means different things for different people

3) if you knew so much about madrid history you would remember that no further than 15 years ago, the term "galacticos" was not only a reference to the stars we had but how well we were playing as well. Winning has never been enough for madrid, winning with style is the ultimate chase. If not Capello would not have been canned when he won la liga playing like shit. so i dont even think you know that history you are referencing

and people here should have no shame to share their opinion, that's ridiculous

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Post by El Kommander on Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:48 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:
@El Kommander wrote:Some of you so called 'fans' are deluded. Our philosophy has always been to win. Not to play tiki taka and hug the ball. We are in plcae to win the league and Champions league double and sealing our place as the greatest team in the modern era if we retain it.

First you guys complain that Ronaldo is selfish, he becomes our main playmaker and you still aren't satisfied. You are now complaining about our team when we are walking the Liga. Do some of you have no shame? Madrid isn't about tactics as Rafa Benitez showed when he came here. It is about managing personalities. It's as if some of you just picked Madrid out of a hat to support without knowing our history.

This forum never ceases to amaze me...
how about you

1) dont insult or call people deluded because they have a different opinion than yours

2) stop thinking that your understanding pf what madrid is, is universal. RM means different things for different people

3) if you knew so much about madrid history you would remember that no further than 15 years ago, the term "galacticos" was not only a reference to the stars we had but how well we were playing as well. Winning has never been enough for madrid, winning with style is the ultimate chase. If not Capello would not have been canned when he won la liga playing like shit. so i dont even think you know that history you are referencing

and people here should have no shame to share their opinion, that's ridiculous

Our football is nowhere near as bad as Capello's and we are scoring a lot of goals. For me I want us to win the trophies this season. We have failed at winning La Liga too many times. Zidane will get us over the line. This team is much better than the Galacticos and we are winning European Cups. We have players that means that we will never be high intensity. That is non-negotiable so we have to just win.

Today we are playing 442 so let's see what happens.

Hala Madrid.
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Post by futbol_bill on Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:40 pm

@Turok_TTZ wrote:Bill, we're in a very good position to win the league. The CL may be difficult but we're still relatively comfortable. The ordinary Barcelona just lost today in the league. We have one extra game.
As things stand, we got everything within reach. Make no mistake. It's our league title to lose.

I do not understand the negativity. Maybe if we're trailing by 6points  I would understand better. But according to you and some others, we're a mess of a team on the brink of collapse.
A team on the brink who is currently in Kroos control to La Liga.
Yes we have been lucky here and there and yes we have struggled but we're still winning. That's just the nature of the game.  

And reading your post bill, it almost sounds like you actually want Zidane gone. What's wrong with you?  A shame about the CDR but we've actually got good odds of winning the league and here you are shitting on Real madrid's chances? You living in an alternative world, believing alternative facts? Reality is quite different from what you're attempting to portray and argue.

Learn to have faith in your team, Bill. Have faith in your coach.
And that goes for the rest of y'all who remain in doubt. Once again, we're in a very good spot. Sure the team is lucky here and there but that doesn't diminish what progress we've made.

It seems in my absence, some of ye have lost faith in this great team of ours... Yes there can be improvements, yes we have been fortunate. But consider this also: what does it say about our opposition that they have not been able to take advantage of our so called luck and shoddy team? Zidane is doing an excellent job keeping this team competitive. Being pessimistic and admitting defeat before the fight is over... Absolutely Disgusting.

We have been in much darker places than this. Or has winning two CLs in 3 years made everyone forget the darker days of Real Madrid? Have faith in our team, have faith in Zidane. I fully trust Zidane to get it right. And he will. Our current situation is nothing like the dark days when the league was a foregone conclusion and being knocked out of CL. Remember this well those who remain in doubt. We're still in it to win it. We have the keys to our own fate. And in these times are when we must have faith in our team. I expect more out of you lot.


Perhaps you should watch a few games before trying to enlighten us with your wisdom!

I haven't given up on this team. I am hopeful but certainly not optimistic. This team and coach makes us cringe every week. I do want a shakeup this summer as this teams needs improvements, beginning with someone who has an idea about tactics! I do credit Zidane with superb man management, but we either need an appropriate assistant or find a better coach.

Who the hell are you to tell us our comments / opinions are disgusting. You are certainly free to have your own opinion, but likewise we are entitled to ours without your abuse. For that matter what are doing here anyways, you had stated you didn't like this forum. How is your one man forum working for you?

I (and I believe the same exists for most posters here) am not a blind fan that buys into this Sports inspired bs re Zidane. I know what I see and it is disappointment in some players and a lot of poor tactics and player selection.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:43 pm

ANother poor performance, saved by individual talent. this has basically been the story of the season.

So again, i can't accept the argument that ZIdane is doing a great job "coaching" this team.

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Post by Turok_TTZ on Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:42 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:
@Turok_TTZ wrote:Bill, we're in a very good position to win the league. The CL may be difficult but we're still relatively comfortable. The ordinary Barcelona just lost today in the league. We have one extra game.
As things stand, we got everything within reach. Make no mistake. It's our league title to lose.

I do not understand the negativity. Maybe if we're trailing by 6points  I would understand better. But according to you and some others, we're a mess of a team on the brink of collapse.
A team on the brink who is currently in Kroos control to La Liga.
Yes we have been lucky here and there and yes we have struggled but we're still winning. That's just the nature of the game.  

And reading your post bill, it almost sounds like you actually want Zidane gone. What's wrong with you?  A shame about the CDR but we've actually got good odds of winning the league and here you are shitting on Real madrid's chances? You living in an alternative world, believing alternative facts? Reality is quite different from what you're attempting to portray and argue.

Learn to have faith in your team, Bill. Have faith in your coach.
And that goes for the rest of y'all who remain in doubt. Once again, we're in a very good spot. Sure the team is lucky here and there but that doesn't diminish what progress we've made.

It seems in my absence, some of ye have lost faith in this great team of ours... Yes there can be improvements, yes we have been fortunate. But consider this also: what does it say about our opposition that they have not been able to take advantage of our so called luck and shoddy team? Zidane is doing an excellent job keeping this team competitive. Being pessimistic and admitting defeat before the fight is over... Absolutely Disgusting.

We have been in much darker places than this. Or has winning two CLs in 3 years made everyone forget the darker days of Real Madrid? Have faith in our team, have faith in Zidane. I fully trust Zidane to get it right. And he will. Our current situation is nothing like the dark days when the league was a foregone conclusion and being knocked out of CL. Remember this well those who remain in doubt. We're still in it to win it. We have the keys to our own fate. And in these times are when we must have faith in our team. I expect more out of you lot.


Perhaps you should watch a few games before trying to enlighten us with your wisdom!

I haven't given up on this team. I am hopeful but certainly not optimistic. This team and coach makes us cringe every week. I do want a shakeup this summer as this teams needs improvements, beginning with someone who has an idea about tactics! I do credit Zidane with superb man management, but we either need an appropriate assistant or find a better coach.

Who the hell are you to tell us our comments / opinions are disgusting. You are certainly free to have your own opinion, but likewise we are entitled to ours without your abuse. For that matter what are doing here anyways, you had stated you didn't like this forum. How is your one man forum working for you?

I (and I believe the same exists for most posters here) am not a blind fan that buys into this Sports inspired bs re Zidane. I know what I see and it is disappointment in some players and a lot of poor tactics and player selection.

Actually, I keep in contact with Sports even when I'm not around. Plus I was abroad, job related stuff.
When sports stopped responding, I checked here to see whether he croaked. apparently email issues was the problem. Figures. As it happened, I also lost a lot of emails. Strange. Is also why I'm here again. Thank sports that I am here again.

Haven't seen TMO so that forum has no purpose anymore. it is of little concern. I'm more concerned with recent trolls on this other place where I am an admin. The pains of IP banning multi accounts. Gamers are a salty bunch. But it's been awhile since I've dealt with someone who changes ISP just to troll a gaming forum. Just returned home too. My peers are worthless.

Bill, you're in a football forum. You will see opinions that will differ from yours. You will also see opinions that call out other opinions. All opinions are up for scrunity. Don't act like a child when yours is under criticism. I see that hasn't changed either.

@Mr Nick09 wrote:ANother poor performance, saved by individual talent. this has basically been the story of the season.

So again, i can't accept the argument that ZIdane is doing a great job "coaching" this team.
First place with a game in hand. If this is a poor performance, I'll take it. The tears when we lift that league title will be all that much sweeter.

We're showing character coming back from that own goal error and you still want to criticize Zidane? Give him some credit man. We had stronger teams who would have lost today. Yes we could have played better, yes we could have made this easier for ourselves. But life doesn't always go the way you want. We will struggle. We will scrape by. Sure we didn't put a 5 star performance... But we still got the win. And that is what ultimately matters. You win titles by winning games. Not by 5 star games.
Even the best team can lose on their say but thankfully today wasn't that day. And certainly not by betis.

We're number 1 in the table despite all the flaws and criticisms. I think Zidane deserves some praise. Putting that fighting character back in our team. Every point counts. Individual performances bailing out Zidane? Perhaps there is truth to that. But what ultimately matters is that we stay winning. And we are winning. That's not an opinion. That's not an alternative fact. That is fact. Today we won. And I trust our team to continue winning come the next game. Why is it so hard to have faith and trust in Zidane? Why? What has Zidane done to lose trust here? Would really like to know why.
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Post by Thimmy on Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:05 pm

I'm also hopeful, but not optimistic. We've been lucky to advance in the CL, and to be in such a favorable position in the league - something I couldn't have possibly predicted based on how the team's been playing, up until this point. It's been a very odd season for European football. Every single top team seems to have been performing below par, but we've been the only team that's consistently had luck on our side. The opportunity to clinch back to back CL titles has never been more possible, but then again, it's incredible difficult to predict our chances against any team, elite level or relegation level, with the way we are playing.

Despite Barcelona's extraordinary forwards, which have, in my opinion, been prematurely praised as the greatest attacking trio of all time, their team performances have been mostly underwhelming. I don't remember the last time I saw a Barcelona side that were as beatable as this one, yet I would never place any money on our chances of beating them. The seemingly predictable playing style of Zidane has yielded mostly positive results, but what frustrates fans is that we've more often looked like the underdog, than one of the elite club teams in the world.

I know I've been frustrated on the occasion when the quality of our football has, without exaggeration, been below that of my local team on a good day. We've mostly gotten away with a draw or a last moment win, regardlessly, but it's not a quality of football that inspires morale or positive thinking. I'm not referring to the entertainment value of it, but rather a certain sense of control. Sports may refer to it as arrogance or entitlement, but elite teams have traditionally had this aura of dominance that the current Real Madrid lacks. I've found myself hoping that we somehow manage to grind out a win against Las Palmas, when I feel that normally the odds should be on our side against teams of Las Palmas' level, regardless of whether we win or lose.

We have more talent than the teams we've lost or drawn against, yet we've struggled while playing unattractive football, that supposedly compensates for it's lack of entertainment value, in favor of chance of success. Even when we dominate possession, the game plan seems to be a cowardly approach to attacking through long-balling it to individuals who may or may not take care of business. I consider myself more patient than most people, but unlike Leicester who won against all odds by playing quality football, we're fighting against the odds by playing low quality football. And yes, I believe that our players are capable of more than this. We should capitalise on the relatively poor form of the other top teams, but despite our statistically positive progress into the season, the only light I can see at the end of the tunnel is a whimsical spirit called Clutch. I don't know how long it will stick around, but I hope it stays until the end of the season.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:18 am

@Turok, RM are historically resilient, why would i give him credit for Ramos scoring late headers? are you serious?

I am critical of Zidane for the work (or lack of) he is doing. Is he setting up the team correctly? is he reinforcing tactical schemes that allow us to dominate smaller teams? are we leveraging the talent we have to its fullest? I can go on, the answer to those questions is mostly no for me.

If you want to take the line that winning justifies everything then fine, we dont need to argue. I think discussion is worth having with people who understand that criticism is important, second guessing what the team is doing is important. And this end justifies the means doesnt go.

besides, coming from you turok lol, dont make me laugh, you are one of the most opinionated people ever on this board and you are now telling us that only the results matter. either something changed in your life and your output on thing change as well, or you are being a hypocrite. i will go with the former...

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Post by Turok_TTZ on Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:02 am

@Mr Nick09 wrote:@Turok, RM are historically resilient, why would i give him credit for Ramos scoring late headers? are you serious?

I am critical of Zidane for the work (or lack of) he is doing. Is he setting up the team correctly? is he reinforcing tactical schemes that allow us to dominate smaller teams? are we leveraging the talent we have to its fullest? I can go on, the answer to those questions is mostly no for me.

If you want to take the line that winning justifies everything then fine, we dont need to argue. I think discussion is worth having with people who understand that criticism is important, second guessing what the team is doing is important. And this end justifies the means doesnt go.

besides, coming from you turok lol, dont make me laugh, you are one of the most opinionated people ever on this board and you are now telling us that only the results matter. either something changed in your life and your output on thing change as well, or you are being a hypocrite. i will go with the former...
We have not been resilient in the league for some time. If this were any other year in the past 4 years, we would have lost the league already around this time in March. We would not have beaten betis today. This is the first time in years where we control the league. Before we didn't have these comebacks that we have now. Before, Ramos or Cristiano would salvage only a draw or loss. We're still struggling this late into the season but now we're still winning. The comeback gritty wins that we should've​ had back then are finally happening now. And you think Zidane doesn't have a hand in this?

We play sloppy sure, we could defend better yes I agree. We are obviously not playing to true potential. And there are many reasons plus variables as to why that is. But despite all those variables, Zidane has proven to be resilient so far. In spite of some valid criticisms, Zidane and our team has taken your concerns and shoved them down your throat. Be it pretty or ugly, Zidane has Real Madrid triumph when we look like we're not winning a match. Winning ultimately matters most, Nick. Results are what matter most. Style is important that is true. But Real Madrid are a winning club. And to Florentino perez, titles matter more than style. We may not be dominating the small fry as we used to but we are not dropping points.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with criticism. Nothing wrong with 2nd guessing as well. That is fine. This is a forum to discuss opinions after all. What I do not appreciate however, is not giving Zidane his dues. You are being unfair to our great coach. And you're not the only one. Zidane has us 1st place with security of one game in hand. Zidane also has us still in it with regards to the champions league. Why do you not give him credit for doing well given our current setup?

You say Zidane is clueless. You say he has barely coached this team. You claim the tactics are lacking or non existent. Well then to this I ask you... Do you know any Madrid team that was clueless and yet remains top of the table this late in the season? Real Madrid have a great history of players. We had teams with much higher talent than the current one we have. But such teams which had Raul or Ronaldo, Zidane or Figo. Roberto Carlos. I could go on. Teams with much higher quality languish in 3rd or 4th around this time. A Mourinho season where we crushed Barca on both clasicos but losing the league regardless. If Zidane is so lacking .. why are we in Kroos control right now? We can barely defend, our midfield is not fully balanced, our Frontline is declining or not there. Our gk probably needs replacing. All these problems and yet here we are. Languishing in 1st place. 1st place! The horror! /s

Injuries, declines, idiocy, and spontaneous madness has occurred this season but despite all that, We're the league leaders. A shame about the CDR. But not everything can go our way. Look what happened to Barca and deportivo. That could have easily been us. Think about that

Top kek your last bit. Unlike you and Bill, critical thinking is a skill I have not forgotten. when one thinks he knows everything. That is the point where that person stops thinking rationally and critically. No longer able to make logical conclusions or think cohesively. I don't know what has happened in my absence here but before I left, at least the criticism was fair. Now? You all make it sound like he has us in 4th place and not contending for titles. Zidane in terms of style is disappointing. But in terms of results, he is doing fine. We're still on the right path to titles. Style cannot be fixed until summer. There will be changes regardless of title or not. What you say does not reflect reality. Clueless? This is la Liga. You can't afford to be clueless here. Having a comfortable lead is far from clueless. Do you subscribe to alternative facts? We're struggling but we're relatively doing fine. Zidane is doing great in spite if everything. Give him some credit as he does deserve credit for what positives we have to celebrate currently. We're the league leaders after all. I do not see us dropping this ball bar some very shocking performances.
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Post by sportsczy on Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:43 am

Let it go Turok...  this is the most talented team in the history of Real Madrid with all highly skilled, self-motivated and tactically apt players in their prime and in top form.  They coach themselves to top of the league, winning CL last year and still in CL today.  It's obvious.  Results are automatic.  The manager is responsible to make us play pretty to go along with the results.

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Post by The Madrid One on Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:11 am

rofl You guys have always been the best with your spats, this kinda looks like Wwe SmackDown tag team match, now we only need rogue chad to come in from under ring and start swinging a steel chair at everyone.

Zidane has a team and club context on his hands that poses certain predicaments, and they have been at display with many coaches now for many years but there are certain things that lie on him that y'all often fail to discuss properly because you go to extremes.
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Post by Turok_TTZ on Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:08 am

@sportsczy wrote:Let it go Turok...  this is the most talented team in the history of Real Madrid with all highly skilled, self-motivated and tactically apt players in their prime and in top form.  They coach themselves to top of the league, winning CL last year and still in CL today.  It's obvious.  Results are automatic.  The manager is responsible to make us play pretty to go along with the results.

...This is fantastic sarcasm. I am legitimately impressed. Even had me do a double take. Damn. Since I am in a humoring mood ATM...

While it's true tactics are 10% of what makes a system work the other 90% being the players. Coaches DO have a major role to play to ensure the 90% + 10 % isn't going to waste. Zidane has to make sure our men stay motivated and that they don't slack. In this regard, I'll admit that there is certainly room for improvement... (Looking at you Marcelo, BBC.)

The more important thing is that the players believe in their coach and will fight for him. While the spirit could be a lot better in small games, I think we saw plenty enough that come the big time, the team rises to the occasion. This relationship can make or break a team. Don't believe me? Review Rafael Benitez tenure here and leave no doubt.

I expect great things but make no mistake, there are flaws which cannot be corrected immediately. Maybe I'll make a separate thread about it. We're the best team in the world. This I truly believe. Having said that. That doesn't mean Real Madrid don't have flaws. We have many flaws. Probably more flaws than most elite rivals even. But football can be funny in that regard, that despite said flaws, a flawed team finds a way to triumph over other teams which may have lesser weaknesses. Kinda like Barcelona vs deportivo. We all know who the better team is. But deportivo found a way regardless.

Which is why I have great respect for Zidane work so far.  He has done well to ensure the flaws are not exposed and exploited by the opposition to the point that we lose matches. but we'll see. La Liga only gonna get tighter from this point on.

Fake edit: Cage you reveal yourself. Been a while. I trust your mind hasn't deteriorated like our peers? Babs and ino too busy and tototo ain't coming here. She don't like what she sees. Don't blame her.

I see you use superior smackdown and not raw. Do you actively watch the WWE?

Extremes? Nic Cage pls. I am very reasonable so as long as I don't read some straight up alternative facts bs. I call it as I see it and that has never changed. We're in a forum after all. If everyone is in agreement, then this place becomes an echo chamber. Can't have that. Especially with all these Ill conceived thoughts. How does one even come to such conclusions Posting whilst drunk? Too much alcohol and I am being cleverly trolled by drunk posting? Because if that's the case I took the bait Hook line and sinker. But that would imply intelligence to commit conspiracy. And I would be giving these lot wayyy too much credit to be capable of such. Unless ofc, this was your master plan Cage? You're the third man!

In all seriousness, these lot always miss the bigger picture and are under the illusion that we are a stable club. I trust you can find the humour in that for that has made me laugh the most. not enough keks in the world.
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Post by The Madrid One on Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:59 pm

Good to see you turok, shame about those 3 not being around.

Lol, my mind has indeed not turned into mashed potatoes, i don't pay as much attention as i used to at one point at the games though. The minute HBK left the building i did too tbh regarding WWE. Blue > Red.

What i meant by extremes is that some guy might call Zidane a useless clown and be too negative and offensive and then the other side does the opposite but whatever, i too would rather see the "elimination chamber." Laughing  

Re Zidane, since Mourinho and the start of what i'd call our "modern era," how many of our managers have done all that much better in the league and overall?

This is indeed not a stable club in core aspects because we still live under the rule of Uncle Galactico and we all know he likes his BBC more than anyone, he likes it more than winning.

Zidane has to manage an unbalanced mess of a team that nonetheless is largely carried by it's own talent, as we have seen though, this characteristic is what has resulted in a misleading CL record and loss after loss in leagues for years.

Still, there are important questions that should be brought up and discussed about Zidane, being critical is not equal to being a hater. Those ridiculous formations early in the year, his subs, the way the team plays, lack of concentration, intensity, and consistency, Zidane i think is indeed leaving the impression a bit of being more a man manager than tactical specialist, but how much better could he be doing considering the specific context? That's the question, and i don't think the answer is really clearly all that much better.


Last edited by Nicolas Cage on Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by sportsczy on Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:27 pm

Not sure how much you can do tactically when you have to compensate for so many things...  Marcelo not defending, Ramos being Ramos, CR not running, Benzema not running, lack of midfield athleticism, etc.  You're forced to use a scheme that minimizes the weaknesses because, if you don't, you lose games when everyone isn't on.  That's why we have had such a hard time winning the league...  most other managers schemed around us being in the best of forms.  Zidane assumes that we will win if we're on form... he schemes around Real Madrid being in bad form and making sure we minimize the damage in that scenario. That's how most Italian managers think, bar Carlo interestingly enough Laughing

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Post by Doc on Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:33 pm

Sarcasm doesn't really change Nick's point though nor does it make it any less wrong. I mean, I have been just as forgiving as Sports on Zidane but even I can say Nick's criticism has grounds. Even the usual mellow Thimmy (real name Timothy) is expressing similar thoughts.

It's not as over the top as Adit and the other DoC (and even they have explained their reasoning) but I could see what Nick is saying. Literally. That being said, I don't think Zidane is clueless of what Nick is saying, just feel he is, um, "limited" to what he can do with our guys and works with what he has give or take his own selection/tactical cock ups.

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Post by futbol_bill on Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:08 pm

Sarcasm or not and with either viewpoint, the fact remains the team play in most games  has us on the edge of our seats and for the most part frustrated. I can't see how anyone can be confident of a win let alone trophies. Sure I assume we are all hopeful, but confident or even optimistic is difficult.

We can debate on the causes of this; Zidane player selection, his subs and timing thereof, his tactical astuness or not, Benz, Ronaldo at times, Ramos on defense, Marcelo on defense, Kroos, etc etc. But the fact (or as someone out here likes to call alternative facts (must be someone in Trump's world)), still put this season's final outcomes in doubt.

Therefore what will be the changes this summer to correct these flaws? A lot will depend on what the season has produced or not!

Beginning with the coach, I'm with Deez in that who out there is better? Despite what most of view as flaws in Zidane, we have not had a better man manager at this club since Del Bosque. Even if we can recruit a top tactical coach, would he be as good as Zidane at man management? I doubt that and therefore I suggest it is better to get an assistant to Zidane that is excellent with tactics. Failing that maybe Zidane should go back to school!

With regards to new recruits, I believe that is why Perez is after Monchi. I see some of you have expressed doubt, but for the first time since Mourinho, Flo is actually trying to find what has been a missing component of a successful organization.

I do believe what has been done with the academy / young prospects is working in that several players out on loan are progressing nicely and the Castilla team has worked itself out to be within a point of a playoff position. The younger teams all seem to be doing well.

We can safely assume that Ronaldo, Ramos, Bale, Kroos, Modric and Marcelo are not going anywhere.

Similarly it is unlikely that Varane, Kovacic, Casemiro, Nacho and Lucas will leave.

We can also assume that James, Coentrao (if they can buy him out) and Mariano (loan) will be departing.

I'm concerned that Isco, Morata and Pepe will leave.

That only leaves Benz and Danilo as candidates for replacements.

That doesn't give Monchi, Zidane, Perez, Sanchez much to work with!

edit: I left a few players out.

Seems pretty certain that Club intends to replace Navas with either De Gea or Courtois. They are keeping both options open (viewing either is much better) to facilitate negotiations. I believe we can assume Kiko and Jañez stay.

And that leaves Asensio. I think he will stay, but depending on incoming players, he could be loaned out again to make room (if required).
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Post by sportsczy on Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:57 pm

Every new and young coach gets called out for lacking tactics... a very recent example in France is Leonardo Jardim at Monaco. People were calling for his head a little over a year ago because Monaco was playing so negative (they were unwatchable). His answer to it was that he implemented what was best for his squad.

Now Monaco is probably the most pleasant side in Europe to watch this season. Highest scoring for sure. Why the massive change? Personnel and letting success be his guide. The defense started leaking goals so he shifted to a more attacking game since he couldn't rely on a rock solid defense anymore.

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