Can a 3-4-3 work properly?

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Can a 3-4-3 work properly? Empty Can a 3-4-3 work properly?

Post by zizzle Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:29 pm

I'm yet to see 343 successfully implemented without being a total disaster.
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Post by rincon Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:31 pm

Mazzari's Napoli was a good 343
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:31 pm

Luca wrote:
Higuain-Dybala
James
Marchisio-Pjanic-Khedira
Alex Sandro-Chiellini-Bonucci-Dani Alves
Buffon

Mother of goals

It's starting to become clearer that Allegri really wants to play a 4-3-1-2 after failing to sign a trequartista last summer and we panicked into a last second Hernanes signing (ffs)

But from the squad standpoint I still don't get it, we go out and sign Benatia, which leaves us with 5 great central defenders: Chiellini, Bonucci, Barzagli, Benatia and Rugani only to, possibly, change formation to a 4 man back line now, someone help me out. Mole, tom if you're out there, sports, Hans, anyone please


It's mental I honestly thought we'd be going ahead with a 3-5-2 but if I had to guess, we know Barzagli is pushing 50 and Benatia is just too tempting of a deal to turn down. 3M loan for a potentially top class CB and when you take in to account our disgusting injury record it makes sense.

Didn't expect us of all teams to go overboard on ridiculous squad depth but the times, they are a-changin'


So i'm assuming we go ahead with the 4-3-1-2 but play plenty of games, particularly near CL time, with a 3-5-2 thus keeping our defenders happy. Then when Barzagli calls it quits (hope they reverse the aging process within the next 2 years or so Sad ) we'll be back down to 4 CBs for 2 positions.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:33 pm

zizzle wrote:I'm yet to see 343 successfully implemented without being a total disaster.


Let's not get into technicalities :coffee:
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Post by sportsczy Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:54 pm

Rafa used the 343 in the 2nd half of the Milan game in CL final of 2005 to make the comeback.
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Post by rincon Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:17 pm

Sampaoli also used a 343 to win the CA with Chile
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Post by Sri Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:18 pm

343 is gr8 on FPL tbf

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Post by rincon Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:46 pm

Scolari also demolished the WC2002 with Brazil with a 343 hmm
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Post by rwo power Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:50 pm

zizzle wrote:I'm yet to see 343 successfully implemented without being a total disaster.

Gladbach seem to play something like it today:
Can a 3-4-3 work properly? Th-lin10
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Post by zizzle Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:01 pm

Teams that press very well can obviously get away with 343, but imo the tactic is just flawed and can be countered very easily.


rincon wrote:Scolari also demolished the WC2002 with Brazil with a 343 hmm


That super saiyan team would've won without a coach, and seeing how Scolari fared without them tells you how useless he was.
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Post by rwo power Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:11 pm

@zizzle

Well, Gladbach are pretty fluid by now and Oscar Wendt falls back to make it a back 4 if needed, too.

BTW, this is what they used in last season's draw against Bayern: http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/spieltag/1-bundesliga/2015-16/32/2855456/taktische-austellung_bayern-muenchen-14_borussia-mgladbach-15.html
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Post by zizzle Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:29 pm

Obviously a lot depends on how the players position themselves, who drops back, and how conservative the wings are. With the right players 3-4-3 is easily transformed be 3-5-2 when defending.

Now as far as Juve's 3-4-3 is concerned, they're already playing Pjanic as a CM and he isnt know for his work rate, so playing someone like James or even Dyabala as AM will leave them exposed in the middle. It might work in Serie A but they'll get exposed playing like that in Europe.
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Post by rincon Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:42 pm

In theory, Alex Sandro can be like an extra mid so it could work. Or if its Evra then he'd be like a fullback defending and we transform into a back 4 with Alves playing the Cuadrado role we used a bunch last year (beat city with that).

-------- Higuain - Dybala

------James
--------------------------Alves
-------Marchisio - Pjanic
Evra
--------Chiellini - Bonucci - Barzagli

James basically becomes a more offensive Pogba. We used this formation a ton last season but with Pogba, Cuadrado and Mandzukic in the respective places.
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Post by rwo power Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:44 pm

zizzle wrote:With the right players 3-4-3 is easily transformed be 3-5-2 when defending.  
Wenn Gladbach won 3:1 against Bayern, they played a 5-3-2 / 3-5-2, so they experimented with a 3 men backline successfully before and now just had to adjust midfield/attack due to Granit Xhaka getting sold.
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Post by Casciavit Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:47 pm

Well, 3-4-3 isn't a defensive formation. No team plays like that off the ball in their own half. A lot of teams attack with a 3-4-3. A 4-3-3 usually morphs into a 3-4-3 on the ball. However, I don't know any team in recent memory that actually defends with a 3-4-3.

When Pep plays with 3ATB, his teams play 4-1-4-1 off the ball.

Scolari's Brazil played a 5-3-2 off the ball.

Mazzari's Napoli played a 5-3-2 off the ball.

Cruyff's Barca played 4-3-3 off the ball.

Anyhow, playing a 3-4-3 diamond, for example, is difficult to do so because you need players who have the brains to keep their positioning and the technical ability to hold onto the ball. Most teams don't have that, and if they do, they play formations like 4-3-3 which provide more security.
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Post by jibers Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:50 pm

zizzle wrote:I'm yet to see 343 successfully implemented without being a total disaster.


Guardiola in 2012 when they should have reached the cl final...

Santos 4-0
Madrid 3-1
Beat Milan
Yellow SUbs 5-0
Atletico 5-0
Used it with Bayern

Saw it every week under Cruijff
LVG used a more rigid version but it worked
Bielsa used it when Athletic club played some beautiful football, his lack of rotation killed the team. Used it with Chile and Argentina etc
Sampaoli with UdC winning the Copa Sudamerica and Copa America with Chile.

More about roles and execution than formations tbh. Most formations can work with the right players and right execution. 343 not used that often now because most teams use wingers which means that your defence will be facing one vs ones. Needs to good positional structure from the back so that the ball isn't lost in the build up phase if not it would be a hoof off that you lose if you are faced with one vs ones constantly.

Would work if the teams you face regularly play a 442 where you can have a spare man in defence, but the problem is the numbers that are used todays in forward positions. That is why most of the coaches that have implemented it are advocates of position game.


Last edited by jibers on Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:50 pm

As if something I said based on a video game as a joke has spawned a legitimate decision about the benefits of 343.
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Post by Sushi Master Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:53 pm

Guardiola dominated the BL with a pseudo 3-4-3.
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Post by zizzle Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:06 pm

That's the thing, every example of 3-4-3 posted in this thread is not really 3-4-3 but just a general shape
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Post by Curtinho Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:50 pm

What do you consider a 3-4-3? Like the Netherlands '3-5-2' in the 2014 World Cup was more of a 3-4-3 with Sneijder pushing up to form an attacking triangle with Robben and RVP.

Rodgers switched to a 3-4-3 mid season because Liverpool were leaking goals and went on a pretty long unbeaten streak.
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Post by McAgger Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:07 pm

I'm not a big fan of it but as Curt said, Liverpool did use it successfully for about 15 matches in 14/15. That was literally the only positive point in that abysmal season.

4-1-4-1 >>>>
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Post by Lord Awesome Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:14 pm

An actual flatline Mid 3-4-3 would require players with a lot, of energy coupled with creative players for it to function properly, in RL. 1 or 2 of the forwards would also need to move back and forth to bring the balll into the attack from the center or the sides.

I like using 3-4-3 in Pes only because it allows me to play a 5-4-1 when on the defensive and I treat it as a 5-2-3 on offense. If I want to hog the ball I can opt for a 3-6-1 approach and create slowly. Out of all the formations, I find the 3-4-3 to be the most versatile formation but with the least balance when performed by real managers.

4-4-2 still holds the title of most balanced formation.
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Post by Collblanc Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:21 pm

Can a 3-4-3 work properly? Xgeh51
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