US Presidential Race

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Post by Guest Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:46 pm

Vibe wrote:
Betty La Fea wrote:
Vibe wrote:Basically, Hillary was just immorally using moral values to make Trump seem insensitive to real life struggles hence winning this debate inside the heads of average voters.

Watching this debate, would definitely vote for Trump.


When called out during the debate for not wanting to rent to African Americans his reply was

"Well they sued a lot of people....and we settled with no admission"

Nonchalantly. He was a racist slumlord, and paid without ever mentioning any wrongdoing to a lot of people he helped screw over. Trump is, quite frankly, the living embodiment of systemic racism at this point.

I can accept you voting for him since you live in another country and probably have never met, or cared, about an ethnic minority in America.

People over here need to know better though. If you have any friend, be them Latino,Black, Asian, or probably even Native american the elitist real estate barons like Trump have worked the system to keep them down.

I'll always love Trump for, effectively, killing this version of the republican party. That said he is a terrible terrible terrible man, and his reaction to that question summed it up for me.


The only difference between Trump and Clinton is that she would have fed you the words you wanted to hear.

The white elite is, was, and will always be racist, and in control. Racism will never be solved in the US, no matter how hard they pretend they care. Thinking otherwise is equal to believing in Santa. No one is even trying, except for the ones being discriminated who have no choice.

No one is working the system, the system is working just as intended - for them to exploit it and for it to bear an illusion of order and control over them, while being the exact opposite and shifting power to their side.

I've never seen such a crowd of cattle like the American public, completely unaware of actual works taking place. They will swallow anything poured down their throats... Even though we live in a much shittier world, we're actually aware of what are they doing to us, even the lesser intelligent individuals. We are still equally powerless though...

My post was obviously semi-serious, I think clearly explained in the second part of the post I would never vote. I'm discussing for fun, and out of the two, I would vote for Trump. If I was stupid enough to vote, that is.


I don't care about solving racism. I care about a guy, who in the lifetime of my mother, was sued and paid for not renting to ethnic minorities in the largest city in this country, being nonchalant about it.

Hillary is only the same if you live in a place where you have never had to experience being turned away from a place to live based on the fact that your skin is darker. Trump is EVERYTHING that has ever been wrong with this country socially mashed into one privileged old man.

We can talk about Hillary being a flawed horrible candidate, but to say she is the same as Trump is categorically false. This was a lady who, from the time she got to law school, has fought against discrimination throughout this country. She isnt the same as a racist slumlord. Its intellectually dishonest to say that they are.

And Trump is DEFINITELY working the system when he gets on stage, and smugly proclaims that not paying federal taxes makes him smart. This is the guy who has had EVERY benefit in life giving to him by this country. You know how much I pay in Taxes every year? More than the average worker here earns in an entire year, and I'm nowhere near rich. For that trouble I get the average person thinking I'm an immigrant, had to score much higher to get into a comparable school as trump, and then have people like him try to trick the people I am subsidizing with my tax dollars blame all the social ills of the world on us "simply not winning anymore" as he Pals around on TV with people we use to think had credibility.

He is worse than Hillary in every way imaginable.

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Post by McLewis Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:57 pm

Trump looks tough, sounds tough, and acts tough. It's visual and audio red meat to the white working class and poor. It doesn't matter what he says. It's the fact that he says it in a tough, macho, manly manner. It comes off as blue collar and helps him better identify with that voting bloc. That's really all there is to his support and Vibe is entirely right that it makes them look like cattle.

The other end of the spectrum, you have Clinton who is a blatant lier, morally bankrupt, ethically challenged and quite simply so patently unlikable that Trump actually managed to make her look passably likable last night. Her supporters wilful ignorance to every mistake she has made in every position she has held equally makes them cattle. All she had to do was look calm, cool and collected with a bit of snark to counter Trump's boisterousness and she did that. That was red meat to the upper middle class and minority voters.

So we have one group of voters backing a complete idiot for no more reason than he's not the other person and sounds like a tough guy and we have one group backing an entitled lying political monstrosity, wilfully ignoring every one of her rather heinous transgressions.

I repeat, we're screwed and we deserve everything that happens to us for putting these 2 up there to lead this country.
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Post by DuringTheWar Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:00 pm

"The past 50 years have witnessed a very substantial redistribution from white males to minorities and women. I supported and now believe in the public policies that accomplished this redistribution. But redistribution it is."
The Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton are engaged in identity politics. And the redistribution is not win-win... identity politics is a matter of social justice that has had limited economic benefits for white males throughout the income distribution. - Howard Roesnthal

Keeping crying over how oppressed you are Betty...
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Post by Sri Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:45 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqMQDiIiHbk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUbzT25kZ6s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8syBrqA1r8

Banter.

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Post by Guest Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:56 pm

DuringTheWar wrote:"The past 50 years have witnessed a very substantial redistribution from white males to minorities and women. I supported and now believe in the public policies that accomplished this redistribution. But redistribution it is."
The Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton are engaged in identity politics. And the redistribution is not win-win... identity politics is a matter of social justice that has had limited economic benefits for white males throughout the income distribution. - Howard Roesnthal

Keeping crying over how oppressed you are Betty...


When have I cried about how oppressed I am? I have never once said I am oppressed, in fact, I am fundamentally not oppressed at all. Its funny how Asian males play the game of life on hard mode, and still win Very Happy

Me, and people that look like me, are the most successful group in this country economically. Mostly because hard work and honor, something which Donald Trump has neither of.  I pay my taxes, in full every year and am Proud to do it. I am proud to give to my country, it is part of my honor. Donald Trump, with all the benefits gets on stage and smiles about not paying. Says everything about him, even if you ignore his racism in keeping the American dream from others

This is the funny thing about capitalism, when left to prosper, the cream will rise to the top. You know duringthewar. Those of us who did not have decades of government handouts so that we could build our nice little suburban utopias away from brown people, and then complain when LBJ finally started sharing that wealth with everybody else.

You didnt redistribute ANYTHING to us my dear friend. We earned it, having to deal with the bamboo ceiling, higher standards, and no respect.


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Post by DuringTheWar Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:39 pm

Betty La Fea wrote:
DuringTheWar wrote:"The past 50 years have witnessed a very substantial redistribution from white males to minorities and women. I supported and now believe in the public policies that accomplished this redistribution. But redistribution it is."
The Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton are engaged in identity politics. And the redistribution is not win-win... identity politics is a matter of social justice that has had limited economic benefits for white males throughout the income distribution. - Howard Roesnthal

Keeping crying over how oppressed you are Betty...


When have I cried about how oppressed I am? I have never once said I am oppressed, in fact, I am fundamentally not oppressed at all. Its funny how Asian males play the game of life on hard mode, and still win Very Happy

Me, and people that look like me, are the most successful group in this country economically. Mostly because hard work and honor, something which Donald Trump has neither of.  I pay my taxes, in full every year and am Proud to do it. I am proud to give to my country, it is part of my honor. Donald Trump, with all the benefits gets on stage and smiles about not paying. Says everything about him, even if you ignore his racism in keeping the American dream from others

This is the funny thing about capitalism, when left to prosper, the cream will rise to the top. You know duringthewar. Those of us who did not have decades of government handouts so that we could build our nice little suburban utopias away from brown people, and then complain when LBJ finally started sharing that wealth with everybody else.

You didnt redistribute ANYTHING to us my dear friend. We earned it, having to deal with the bamboo ceiling, higher standards, and no respect.


US Presidential Race - Page 12 E6dd533f4e8afd4ec3546bc6375c28a9


I forgot that your protestations are the vicarious manifestation of other people's victimhood. You're not alone in that, there are many spoilt white people also, who have never seen a real black person in their life, or spoken to a peasant taxi driver, who nevertheless feel their pain and hardships with great acuteness and are overwhelmed with immense and noble feelings of paternalism.

Rosenthal's (a progressive Jew) point stands anyway though. Minorities and women taken as a whole, have received many a free goody bag in the redistribution of wealth.

Asians are an interesting case though, and show that the system doesn't keep them down. Unless you are an Asian-supremacist and believe Asians will outperform anyone despite the system being against them. In that case you'd get on well with white-supremacists, as they often seem to put Asians at the top of their racial-intelligence hierarchy (IQ)
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Post by Guest Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:43 pm

DuringTheWar wrote:
Betty La Fea wrote:
DuringTheWar wrote:"The past 50 years have witnessed a very substantial redistribution from white males to minorities and women. I supported and now believe in the public policies that accomplished this redistribution. But redistribution it is."
The Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton are engaged in identity politics. And the redistribution is not win-win... identity politics is a matter of social justice that has had limited economic benefits for white males throughout the income distribution. - Howard Roesnthal

Keeping crying over how oppressed you are Betty...


When have I cried about how oppressed I am? I have never once said I am oppressed, in fact, I am fundamentally not oppressed at all. Its funny how Asian males play the game of life on hard mode, and still win Very Happy

Me, and people that look like me, are the most successful group in this country economically. Mostly because hard work and honor, something which Donald Trump has neither of.  I pay my taxes, in full every year and am Proud to do it. I am proud to give to my country, it is part of my honor. Donald Trump, with all the benefits gets on stage and smiles about not paying. Says everything about him, even if you ignore his racism in keeping the American dream from others

This is the funny thing about capitalism, when left to prosper, the cream will rise to the top. You know duringthewar. Those of us who did not have decades of government handouts so that we could build our nice little suburban utopias away from brown people, and then complain when LBJ finally started sharing that wealth with everybody else.

You didnt redistribute ANYTHING to us my dear friend. We earned it, having to deal with the bamboo ceiling, higher standards, and no respect.


US Presidential Race - Page 12 E6dd533f4e8afd4ec3546bc6375c28a9


I forgot that your protestations are the vicarious manifestation of other people's victimhood. You're not alone in that, there are many spoilt white people also, who have never seen a real black person in their life, or spoken to a peasant taxi driver, who nevertheless feel their pain and hardships with great acuteness and are overwhelmed with immense and noble feelings of paternalism.

Rosenthal's (a progressive Jew) point stands anyway though. Minorities and women taken as a whole, have received many a free goody bag in the redistribution of wealth.

Asians are an interesting case though, and show that the system doesn't keep them down. Unless you are an Asian-supremacist and believe Asians will outperform anyone despite the system being against them. In that case you'd get on well with white-supremacists, as they often seem to put Asians at the top of their racial-intelligence hierarchy (IQ)


The American dream was built on white males getting handouts. What did your father(grandfather) get when they came home from WW2 from the British government?

White Americans got that nice picket fence, with special loans, and paid for education. They got a bustling economy and all the privilege that came with it for their kids. Then they sat back and let education costs go out of control for everybody else, for the country to be ruined behind them. I pay social security for them now when my generation will NEVER see this.

We also saw NONE of this For the Baby boomer generation of 1945-65 where all this wealth was created! And then it becomes an Issue when LBJ created the great state and finally started to spread the wealth. If the wealth is just starting to be spread now then they got a lot more to give IMO.

Racial supremacy is silly, but white racists hate Asian males more than any other group. They manifested the lie of small penis size during the days where the biggest sexual idol in hollywood was Japanese(Sessue Hayakawa), and where women in this country loved Asian men in the west of this country as they were honorable,masculine, and outgoing. They started the myth of the yellow peril to dehumanize them. They used the outgoing charisma of the Pinoy, and the cleverness of the Chinese to make them appear shifty. Then they started the myth of the small penis to feminize them. They did the same way in trying to portray Africans as animalistic and unintelligent. The latter was an absolute failure because none of them actually spoke to a women about what they liked before trying to scare them with absolute stupid ideas.

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Post by footyfan01 Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:52 pm

Most of Stein's voters should go to Hillary in the end. But the key is what happens to Gary Johnson's voters. He is polling very high for a 3rd party & since he won't make it to the debate & between now & elections his numbers should fall significantly. Who gets those votes? Or do the voters stay home?

Obviously millennials are deciding the election too. Bernie has already started touring & will be touring the entire country & mostly battleground states, tough Senate/House races & college campuses to drive out millennial turnout. It is not just % of votes & Hillary is doing very poor here, butt turnout. Millennials won't vote because they hate Trump which is all what Hillary's candidate is about. You have to inspire them.

Trump will get exposed in the debate but I hate the fact that Hillary is making this a personality battle & not a contrast of ideas. She is forgetting that she is also one of the hated & untrustworthy politician in US history along with Trump. There has never been 2 more unpopular candidate.

She worked on a Tuition free program with Sanders for 80% odd of the people & instead of touting it she pivoted to Debt Free program instead of Tuition free. She only brought the Minimum Wage once as a small talking point (no mention of 12 or 15). She didn't even mention healthcare, Trump is fighting to repeal Obamacare & she doesn't give a damn, never brought it up.

I think she won the debate but she enjoys dirty campaigns & fights in the dirt. This is what 2008 campaign was about. If you look at how negative, nasty & personal that campaign was between Obama & Clinton, the comments!!!

Hillary reminds of Kevin Spacey of House of Cards (the underwood guy). She is incredibly lucky she is running against a monster named Trump otherwise she would have lost big vs Rubio or Kasich!

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Post by FennecFox7 Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:15 am

"Asian-supremist" what in the actual *bleep* are you talking about

The only supremist here is you, big dog. I honestly thought you were just a conservative person, DTW, and eventually you'd stop supporting trump.

But you're just another part of the alt-right. Because you're sticking by him no matter what crazy shit he says

I love your bio btw. Funny how being open minded is equivalent to having your "brains fall out", I guess that's better then not having a brain in the first place yeah?

Regarding the debate, moderator did a terrible job. Hillary won it but she let him talk too much and didn't attack him. Could go both ways, and I think she wants people to really hear the shit hes saying so maybe they can think "damn, how is he even running"

I like Hillary. I just don't like her Warhawk mentality. *bleep* her for how she'll treat the Palestinians and her pro-Israel stance is not okay with me, but that beats the alternative of having trump as president. And she has the temperament, ability, and intelligence to do good.
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Post by rincon Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:00 pm

footyfan01 wrote:Trump will get exposed in the debate but I hate the fact that Hillary is making this a personality battle & not a contrast of ideas. She is forgetting that she is also one of the hated & untrustworthy politician in US history along with Trump. There has never been 2 more unpopular candidate.

She worked on a Tuition free program with Sanders for 80% odd of the people & instead of touting it she pivoted to Debt Free program instead of Tuition free. She only brought the Minimum Wage once as a small talking point (no mention of 12 or 15). She didn't even mention healthcare, Trump is fighting to repeal Obamacare & she doesn't give a damn, never brought it up.

I think she won the debate but she enjoys dirty campaigns & fights in the dirt. This is what 2008 campaign was about. If you look at how negative, nasty & personal that campaign was between Obama & Clinton, the comments!!!


Agree with all this. Maybe thats what she has to do to win, but its so disappointing. Its all personal nonsense of trying to shame Trump for his bullshit instead of spending more time addressing real issues and solutions.

She'll get down to business once she is elected, no doubt about it, but its just hard to know what that means. Clinton is just trying to get elected on the basis that she is not Trump. More explicit and consistent views on main issues would be helpful to know what she will be up to for the next 4 years.
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Post by footyfan01 Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:57 am

CLINTON: It is important to recognize what’s going on in this election. Everybody who’s ever been in an election that I’m aware of is quite bewildered because there is a strain of, on the one hand, the kind of populist, nationalist, xenophobic, discriminatory kind of approach that we hear too much of from the Republican candidates. And on the other side, there’s just a deep desire to believe that we can have free college, free healthcare, that what we’ve done hasn’t gone far enough, and that we just need to, you know,  go as far as, you know, Scandinavia, whatever that means, and half the people don’t know what that means, but it’s something that they deeply feel. So as a friend of mine said the other day, I am occupying from the center-left to the center-right. And I don’t have much company there. Because it is difficult when you’re running to be president, and you understand how hard the job is —  I don’t want to overpromise. I don’t want to tell people things that I know we cannot do.

LINTON: Some are new to politics completely. They’re children of the Great Recession. And they are living in their parents’ basement. They feel they got their education and the jobs that are available to them are not at all what they envisioned for themselves. And they don’t see much of a future. I met with a group of young black millennials today and you know one of the young women said, “You know, none of us feel that we have the job that we should have gotten out of college. And we don’t believe the job market is going to give us much of a chance.” So that is a mindset that is really affecting their politics. And so if you’re feeling like you’re consigned to, you know, being a barista, or you know, some other job that doesn’t pay a lot, and doesn’t have some other ladder of opportunity attached to it, then the idea that maybe, just maybe, you could be part of a political revolution is pretty appealing. So I think we should all be really understanding of that and should try to do the best we can not to be, you know, a wet blanket on idealism. We want people to be idealistic. We want them to set big goals. But to take what we can achieve now and try to present them as bigger goals.

Hillary Clinton in a fund raiser with her rich donors. She is running of Universal Healthcare & Tuition free college now & is trashing the ideas behind close doors. I mean Dems have always tried for Universal Healthcare, even in 1990's Hillary was trying for it.

And look the way she talks about Millennials - Internet nerds in forums talk this way  - "Live in your parent's basement - How condescending"

It's crazy when Bernie is going to 2 states on Monday doing 4 rallies (Iowa, Minnesota) to get to win she is trashing the young people.

She also admitted to being "Centre Left to Centre Right" & that she is one of the few there. What happened to I am a strong progressive & I take a backseat to no-one?

Betty you live in your parent's basement according to your champion Hillary


Last edited by footyfan01 on Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:10 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by footyfan01 Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:05 am

Betty La Fea wrote:
DuringTheWar wrote:
Betty La Fea wrote:


When have I cried about how oppressed I am? I have never once said I am oppressed, in fact, I am fundamentally not oppressed at all. Its funny how Asian males play the game of life on hard mode, and still win Very Happy

Me, and people that look like me, are the most successful group in this country economically. Mostly because hard work and honor, something which Donald Trump has neither of.  I pay my taxes, in full every year and am Proud to do it. I am proud to give to my country, it is part of my honor. Donald Trump, with all the benefits gets on stage and smiles about not paying. Says everything about him, even if you ignore his racism in keeping the American dream from others

This is the funny thing about capitalism, when left to prosper, the cream will rise to the top. You know duringthewar. Those of us who did not have decades of government handouts so that we could build our nice little suburban utopias away from brown people, and then complain when LBJ finally started sharing that wealth with everybody else.

You didnt redistribute ANYTHING to us my dear friend. We earned it, having to deal with the bamboo ceiling, higher standards, and no respect.


US Presidential Race - Page 12 E6dd533f4e8afd4ec3546bc6375c28a9


I forgot that your protestations are the vicarious manifestation of other people's victimhood. You're not alone in that, there are many spoilt white people also, who have never seen a real black person in their life, or spoken to a peasant taxi driver, who nevertheless feel their pain and hardships with great acuteness and are overwhelmed with immense and noble feelings of paternalism.

Rosenthal's (a progressive Jew) point stands anyway though. Minorities and women taken as a whole, have received many a free goody bag in the redistribution of wealth.

Asians are an interesting case though, and show that the system doesn't keep them down. Unless you are an Asian-supremacist and believe Asians will outperform anyone despite the system being against them. In that case you'd get on well with white-supremacists, as they often seem to put Asians at the top of their racial-intelligence hierarchy (IQ)


The American dream was built on white males getting handouts. What did your father(grandfather) get when they came home from WW2 from the British government?

White Americans got that nice picket fence, with special loans, and paid for education. They got a bustling economy and all the privilege that came with it for their kids. Then they sat back and let education costs go out of control for everybody else, for the country to be ruined behind them. I pay social security for them now when my generation will NEVER see this.

We also saw NONE of this For the Baby boomer generation of 1945-65 where all this wealth was created! And then it becomes an Issue when LBJ created the great state and finally started to spread the wealth. If the wealth is just starting to be spread now then they got a lot more to give IMO.

Racial supremacy is silly, but white racists hate Asian males more than any other group. They manifested the lie of small penis size during the days where the biggest sexual idol in hollywood was Japanese(Sessue Hayakawa), and where women in this country loved Asian men in the west of this country as they were honorable,masculine, and outgoing. They started the myth of the yellow peril to dehumanize them. They used the outgoing charisma of the Pinoy, and the cleverness of the Chinese to make them appear shifty. Then they started the myth of the small penis to feminize them. They did the same way in trying to portray Africans as animalistic and unintelligent. The latter was an absolute failure because none of them actually spoke to a women about what they liked before trying to scare them with absolute stupid ideas.


LBJ was a genius legislatively & after Washington, FDR & Lincoln was possibly the best president - I think legislatively he is perhaps the best in US history. I don't there was any transfer - I mean the wealth you earn is because you live in that country n that country's infra, system, market, government & it is the right of government to collect taxes.

During LBJ's time there was no huge increase in taxes btw, rather he continued most of Kennedy's sharp cuts in Income Taxes. He made visionary proposals like Food Stamps, Medicare, Medicaid, Civil Rights Act, Voting Act & got them past.

I don't know why he should be blamed because Black people have some dignity of life or poor people get food stamps.

The Economic Growth was actually pretty good during LBJ's time - It was only Vietman he got wrong.

The US economy floundered from the late 70's to 80's especially during Reagan years & HW Bush & then Clinton & Bush & Obama all of whom have been absolutely terrible for the middle class & have destroyed them.

NAFTA, PNTR & horrible trade deals, huge tax cuts for billionaires, welfare cuts for the poor, mass incarceration, expensive wars, Wall Street Deregulation n so on!

Bill I will give some credit, atleast during his time median real income didn't fall although his policies did long lasting damage more than others.

These Conservative Dems have really destroyed the Democratic party & they can't now win in Senate & House races despite having a huge Demographic advantage. Bill, Obama these guys have lost huge huge number of House & Senate seats in their term!

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Post by DuringTheWar Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:02 pm

lol:
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Post by Guest Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:02 pm

Clinton spoke the absolute truth with the basement statement:

"CLINTON: It is important to recognize what’s going on in this election. Everybody who’s ever been in an election that I’m aware of is quite bewildered because there is a strain of, on the one hand, the kind of populist, nationalist, xenophobic, discriminatory kind of approach that we hear too much of from the Republican candidates. And on the other side, there’s just a deep desire to believe that we can have free college, free healthcare, that what we’ve done hasn’t gone far enough, and that we just need to, you know, go as far as, you know, Scandinavia, whatever that means, and half the people don’t know what that means, but it’s something that they deeply feel. So as a friend of mine said the other day, I am occupying from the center-left to the center-right. And I don’t have much company there. Because it is difficult when you’re running to be president, and you understand how hard the job is — I don’t want to overpromise. I don’t want to tell people things that I know we cannot do.
Some are new to politics completely. They’re children of the Great Recession. And they are living in their parents’ basement. They feel they got their education and the jobs that are available to them are not at all what they envisioned for themselves. And they don’t see much of a future. I met with a group of young black millennials today and you know one of the young women said, “You know, none of us feel that we have the job that we should have gotten out of college. And we don’t believe the job market is going to give us much of a chance.” So that is a mindset that is really affecting their politics. And so if you’re feeling like you’re consigned to, you know, being a barista, or you know, some other job that doesn’t pay a lot, and doesn’t have some other ladder of opportunity attached to it, then the idea that maybe, just maybe, you could be part of a political revolution is pretty appealing. So I think we should all be really understanding of that and should try to do the best we can not to be, you know, a wet blanket on idealism. We want people to be idealistic. We want them to set big goals. But to take what we can achieve now and try to present them as bigger goals.
"

She didnt lie.

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Post by CBarca Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:31 pm

Shouldn't call herself a progressive then if she's going to be the same centrist politician she's always been.
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Post by Pedram Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:59 pm

Anyone who thought Hillary is progressive must've been living under a rock, she's a neoliberal which is pretty close to being a moderate republican or "Republican Lite". the only things that makes Hillary lean a bit to the left is her position on social issues which is a no brainer among most democrats, but even on social issues she picked a guy as her vice president who's pro life.

On every other important issues like trade, tax, foreign policy, you name it, she pretty much agrees with republicans on all of them.
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Post by CBarca Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:18 pm

Right, and nobody should have bought it, but I'm directing that towards Betty. I'm not sure what he's referring to by "clinton didn't lie" (that statement on its own is something that should never be spoken, it is so untrue in every categorical sense over time and space). She says in the statement she's centrist. Comes out and says it, like she's done before, but she said earlier this campaign "I'm a progressive". Betty trying to say that's not a lie?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. I hope I am.
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Post by rincon Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:24 pm

This is always funny

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Post by Guest Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:32 pm

CBarca wrote:Shouldn't call herself a progressive then if she's going to be the same centrist politician she's always been.


She is very much a progressive in mainstream American politics.

Would she be a progressive elsewhere? Nope, but then again she technically does fall under the progressive umbrella where she is.

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Post by FennecFox7 Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:16 am

Don't think she is that progressive by default.

She is in the middle. Which is something I'll take over the buffoon
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Post by footyfan01 Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:45 pm

FennecFox7 wrote:Don't think she is that progressive by default.

She is in the middle. Which is something I'll take over the buffoon


How is she a progressive when she doesn't believe in Universal Education, Healthcare, 15$ Minimum Wage, Strong actions against Climate Change (Fracking, Carbon Tax), Lifting the cap on Social Security, Anti-War & Regime change policies, Marijuana decriminalization, Anti TPP or NAFTA, Anti-Glass Steagal n so on.

She is a right wing Republican when it comes to Civil Liberties & War issues (Big supporter of NSA & Patriot Act). She is a liberal when it comes to social issues (Gay Marriage - Even though she was one of the last one's to adopt that stand & did it for political expediency).

She is a proper centrist politician who varies from left in social issues n right wing in foreign policy issues. She is a text-book Moderate Democrat who is Wall Street's darling!

But yes possibly compared to these crazy tea party racist weirdo lunatics, she maybe considered progressive.

I think a Hillary Clinton presidency will probably do more damage to progressive politics than GOP one. GOP couldn't sign NAFTA, Bill Clinton did. Bill Clinton cut welfare, Bill Clinton cut Food stamps, Bill Clinton removed Glass Steagal n Republicans couldn't do it.

And if not for Monice Lewinsky, Social Security would be over, it was being privatized to a voucher program, he already had a deal with Gingrich, this is well know among insiders.....

I think Hillary is not as centrist as Bill but much more hawkish - Let's see what happens, but she is a bad candidate. Maybe if Betty's near one gets drafted to a war, she will understand the dangers of such hawks. I know some people who came from Iraq & it's really sad!

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Post by footyfan01 Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:48 pm

NBC parent company Comcast donated $5.6 million to the Democratic Party during its convention in Philadelphia, and NBC provided Monday night’s presidential debate moderator.

The Democratic Party released a comprehensive list of donors right before the momentous debate, according to The Intercept.

BC parent company Comcast donated $5.6 million to the Democratic Party during its convention in Philadelphia, and NBC provided Monday night’s presidential debate moderator.

The Democratic Party released a comprehensive list of donors right before the momentous debate, according to The Intercept.

How corrupt is the system - NBC pays 5.6M $ to DNC & gets the 1st debate & the only Commander in Chief Forum while CNN has to share a townhall with ABC!

I remember when Harry Belafonte said, is the Democratic party worth saving? It is just that the Republican Party has gone batsh** crazy because the Dems are one stinking bunch of corrupt politically expedient guys!


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/27/nbc-donated-5-6-million-to-democratic-party-sponsored-mondays-debate/#ixzz4M1enphFF

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Post by Guest Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:15 am

Is this 2016 or 1966? Nobody that served in Iraq was drafted. They all signed up for the benefits the military afforded them.

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Post by The Demon of Carthage Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:24 am

McLewis wrote:Trump looks tough, sounds tough, and acts tough. It's visual and audio red meat to the white working class and poor. It doesn't matter what he says. It's the fact that he says it in a tough, macho, manly manner. It comes off as blue collar and helps him better identify with that voting bloc. That's really all there is to his support and Vibe is entirely right that it makes them look like cattle.

The other end of the spectrum, you have Clinton who is a blatant lier, morally bankrupt, ethically challenged and quite simply so patently unlikable that Trump actually managed to make her look passably likable last night. Her supporters wilful ignorance to every mistake she has made in every position she has held equally makes them cattle. All she had to do was look calm, cool and collected with a bit of snark to counter Trump's boisterousness and she did that. That was red meat to the upper middle class and minority voters.

So we have one group of voters backing a complete idiot for no more reason than he's not the other person and sounds like a tough guy and we have one group backing an entitled lying political monstrosity, wilfully ignoring every one of her rather heinous transgressions.

I repeat, we're screwed and we deserve everything that happens to us for putting these 2 up there to lead this country.

Pretty much this.

It's the idea of striking fear into the average American and forcing (and sometimes even bullying) them to vote Hillary just to prevent Trump from getting elected that bothers me. It's anti-democratic and unethical, and it automatically makes Hillary exempt from all criticism and shifts all the public attention to Trump.

She's so unlikable and crooked that the only way she would get elected is if she ran against someone who's widely perceived as the embodiment of evil. So in a way, Trump is the best thing that could ever happen to her.

With him in the race, she doesn't have to talk about her ideas or plans. She doesn't even have to do anything. All she has to do is stand there, smirk and preen, and talk about Trump's racism, sexism, and bigotry every time she's given the mic.

Basically, if you remove the personal attacks on Trump from her speech, all you have left is an unintelligible, populist essay, perfectly tailored to dupe uninformed voters into siding with her.

The general consensus throughout the US is that Trump is a dangerous person. That may be right. But you know who's even more dangerous than him? Hillary. As a Tunisian, I was unfortunate enough to witness first-hand the repercussions of some of her countless transgressions that destabilized the whole region of North Africa, and turned Libya inside out, leaving it like a lawless wasteland swarming with ISIS.

I don't even have to prove why Trump is not fit to be president, he does that so so himself. But you know who else isn't fit to be president? Hillary. She's a lying, dishonest and very dangerous person and some of her followers -(not all) are truly disgusting. I mean, I see them everyday on Facebook trying to bully Bernie supporters into voting for her using pathetic excuses that go against logic, ethics and everything in between.

And you're right, it doesn't matter who'll win between the two (I personally believe it's going to be Hillary and by a large margin), what matters is that you guys have already lost. Trump or Hillary, either way, you and the world, are screwed.

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Post by CBarca Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:02 am

Betty La Fea wrote:
CBarca wrote:Shouldn't call herself a progressive then if she's going to be the same centrist politician she's always been.


She is very much a progressive in mainstream American politics.

Would she be a progressive elsewhere? Nope, but then again she technically does fall under the progressive umbrella where she is.


I'm not even using my words or definition, I'm using hers. Things can get a bit messy when you use your own definitions because you might say she's a progressive but I personally don't. Since there is no "base definition" for progressive (unless we wanted a history lesson of the great Wisconsin governor and senator Robert LaFollete), I don't really wish to enter into this territory.

So that's why I'm using hers. In her definition she is "occupying the center left to center right". Earlier in the campaign and at several points she has said straight up that she is "a progressive". You can't be both. She's lying in one of the two statements, but you're saying "she didn't lie". Context also doesn't come into this. When she said she was a progressive (at least one time was a debate against Sanders), that was in the context of America, it certainly was. In this speech, the context is American politics, what else would it be? She's not talking about in the world here.

So I'm saying don't say "she didn't lie", obviously she did somewhere. Unless you can occupy the center left to center right and STILL be a progressive within the context of American politics, she lied.

Now of course this is nothing new from Hillary and no one is surprised. I just took issue, or more correctly, am confused by your statement she didn't lie.

Though tbh, all of this is really kind of a dumb conversation in the first place, and I'd rather talk about the great Robert LaFollete.
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Post by rwo power Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:04 am

@CBarca

Could you please explain to me why the terms "occupying the center left to center right" and "being progressive" are so mutually exclusive that you consider using both for one person would be considered "a lie"?

At least from my perspective (I'm used to German politics and politicians, mind you) this wouldn't be a contradiction at all as IMO the term "being progressive" doesn't really belong to the left-to-right spectrum, but is a separate idea that shows an intent to consider new ideas, too. After all, even conservatives can have progressive ideas, while more progressive people can have conservative ideas, too. There is no real black and white after all IMO.

Or does "progressive" have some other meaning when applied to US politics?
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