Ribery: Pep lacks experience

urbaNRoots wrote:He's right though. Guardiola is a young naive coach who thinks every team will bend to his style of play. The coaches he mentioned have a lot more variety and experience to their game and can adapt to the opposition at the highest level, which Pep struggles to do. Can't fault him or any other Bayern player who is frustrated at the lack of success in Europe, when they were so successful before Pep's arrival.

Except he changed his style of play lol.

You really need to open your eyes if you think how Bayern played last season is the same is how his team played at Barca.

Also what success in Europe? they won it once, stop acting like Bayern won it every year before Pep ruined it all lol. Not like he struggled either, they got to the semi final every year and that wouldn't be considered a " lack of success " normally.

Pep Guardiola on Ribery criticism that he's a young, inexperienced and cold manager: "He's right I'm young but I'm learning a lot"

Ribery speaking from his ass as per usual. Nothing to see here.

Ribery's ego and mouth fits right in with Bayern tbh... match made in heaven.

guest7 wrote:Pep Guardiola on Ribery criticism that he's a young, inexperienced and cold manager: "He's right I'm young but I'm learning a lot"

Can't wait for Futbol's response to this tbh

Rib's always had the ego.

It's not anyone's fault he's been constantly injured.

Alas, the Robbery era has definitely come to an end. Cameo appearances is what I'm expecting from these guys. The ironic experience is always a plus in the dressing room, too.

Pep might not have on paper done badly at Bayern, but judging from those semi-final collapses, I just never did get that solidity I should get from such a talented team... that's my problem with him. You shouldn't need to go back home to frakking 2 goal advantages because you couldn't tighten up in the away game. That's just manager 101. Don't care if we win it ugly or draw. But you need to balance out your risks, bro. Don't give a frak if you want 70% possession each game.

The ManC tenure will be his first real test, once he figures out half the players are mediocre and not the class he had at Barca or Bayern.

ES wrote:Any guy who bans pizza deserves all the shit he gets in his way imo

Can't argue with that.

Ribery's right, tho. Guardiola's a punk. Just can't deal with those egos.

Sushi Master wrote:Rib's always had the ego.

It's not anyone's fault he's been constantly injured.

Alas, the Robbery era has definitely come to an end. Cameo appearances is what I'm expecting from these guys. The ironic experience is always a plus in the dressing room, too.

Pep might not have on paper done badly at Bayern, but judging from those semi-final collapses, I just never did get that solidity I should get from such a talented team... that's my problem with him. You shouldn't need to go back home to frakking 2 goal advantages because you couldn't tighten up in the away game. That's just manager 101. Don't care if we win it ugly or draw. But you need to balance out your risks, bro. Don't give a frak if you want 70% possession each game.

The ManC tenure will be his first real test, once he figures out half the players are mediocre and not the class he had at Barca or Bayern.

My take on Pep's Bayern tenure is this. In three years he was never able to create a team as good as the one he inherited from Heynckes and that's not success when judged against the highest of standards. Not that I am calling him a failure but considering the reputation he came with and still has he should have been able to create an era defining team which he certainly did not do.

I also eagerly anticipate Pep's ManCity tenure. What he did at Barcelona is so incredible that I cannot find the right words to praise him enough for it. I just shared what I think of his Bayern tenure. Bayern were too good a team before he arrived and one could say did not really need him although they may have learned a few things from him in the last three years. Now he is going to what I would hesitate to call even a good team, leave alone a great team. Do they need him? You can bet your bottom dollar they do. Whatever else he may achieve there or not I am quite confident Pep will make ManCity better than they have ever been in this century. He will make them at least worthy of challenging in Europe. Will this team become as good as his Barca? Not a chance in hell. Will it become as good as his Bayern? Maybe not but time will tell.

As for Ribery I won't be too harsh on him. Players have often done this kind of talking behind the coach's back although we could certainly say there are some players who are too classy to do things like this. Still it's not like he has committed a criminal offense. He has always been a difficult character although maybe not quite to the level of Carlos Tevez. Both are very fine players though.

ES wrote:No wonder, i mean the guy is contemplating using Fernandinho as a CB, i'm just waiting for the culture shock once he's down 2-0 at Goodison park.

Any guy who bans pizza deserves all the shit he gets in his way imo

klopp has put a ban on sweets at Liverpool. not sure whats worse

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

urbaNRoots wrote:He's right though. Guardiola is a young naive coach who thinks every team will bend to his style of play. The coaches he mentioned have a lot more variety and experience to their game and can adapt to the opposition at the highest level, which Pep struggles to do. Can't fault him or any other Bayern player who is frustrated at the lack of success in Europe, when they were so successful before Pep's arrival.

Except he changed his style of play lol.

You really need to open your eyes if you think how Bayern played last season is the same is how his team played at Barca.

Also what success in Europe? they won it once, stop acting like Bayern won it every year before Pep ruined it all lol. Not like he struggled either, they got to the semi final every year and that wouldn't be considered a " lack of success " normally.

It's not the same but it's similar. Pep didn't try to adapt to the players he had in Bayern, instead he forced his style on them. He changed something that was working into something that didn't.

As for success, winning the CL and the treble surely counts as being successful as opposed to winning the possession game. Though I understand that Pep fanboys have a hard time making the distinction between these two things.

One more thing I recently got to know from a Bundesliga expert. Pep was advised to make the players do more physical training to avoid muscular injuries but he ignored their advice.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

urbaNRoots wrote:He's right though. Guardiola is a young naive coach who thinks every team will bend to his style of play. The coaches he mentioned have a lot more variety and experience to their game and can adapt to the opposition at the highest level, which Pep struggles to do. Can't fault him or any other Bayern player who is frustrated at the lack of success in Europe, when they were so successful before Pep's arrival.

Except he changed his style of play lol.

You really need to open your eyes if you think how Bayern played last season is the same is how his team played at Barca.

Also what success in Europe? they won it once, stop acting like Bayern won it every year before Pep ruined it all lol. Not like he struggled either, they got to the semi final every year and that wouldn't be considered a " lack of success " normally.

Don't bother. To him, it's all the same. Controlling the ball = one dimensional... blah blah

2013 was the perfect storm for Bayern. The other top teams had their problems, and Bayern was fit and insanely motivated to win it all after flopping hard the year, prior.

They wouldn't have been trashed 4-0 against Madrid, but acting like they would have won the next 3 CL despite Madrid 2014, Barca 2015, and Atletico 2016 being better than any team they faced, is pretty absurd.

Casciavit wrote:

They wouldn't have been trashed 4-0 against Madrid, but acting like they would have won the next 3 CL despite Madrid 2014, Barca 2015, and Atletico 2016 being better than any team they faced, is pretty absurd.

Fair enough but I would say not reaching a UCL final in three years after your predecessor had reached two of them in two successive years is an under-achievement given the quality of players at your disposal. One point in Pep's defense is that the best player of his Bayern era Arjen Robben was often injured when needed most and ditto with Franck Ribery. However he had a few transfer windows and sufficient cash to spend. So I think he should take some of the blame.

guest7 wrote:Pep Guardiola on Ribery criticism that he's a young, inexperienced and cold manager: "He's right I'm young but I'm learning a lot"

The man oozes class.

I still remember the moment I realized he was destined for greatness. We had just been eliminated from the CL by Guardiola's Barça, and you know Mourinho, he went on a rant with his famous "Por que?" speech about how we were robbed and how Barça is getting favored by the referees. He couldn't just admit that they were simply better, clap for them and move no. No, he had to blame somebody else for his well-deserved defeat.

Later, and since journalists love to watch the world burn, they asked Guardiola if he wanted to reply to Mourinho. He simply said "I have nothing to say".

Don't get me wrong though, I'm pretty sure Guardiola has made mistakes as manager, and I'm also quite sure he must've been unfair to some players like Eto'o. But unlike Ribéry, the Cameroonian was brave and decent enough to confront Pep face to face while he was still managing Barça.

Someone who oozes class isn't ill spoken by one of his previous players

The Demon of Carthage wrote:

guest7 wrote:Pep Guardiola on Ribery criticism that he's a young, inexperienced and cold manager: "He's right I'm young but I'm learning a lot"

The man oozes class.

I still remember the moment I realized he was destined for greatness. We had just been eliminated from the CL by Guardiola's Barça, and you know Mourinho, he went on a rant with his famous "Por que?" speech about how we were robbed and how Barça is getting favored by the referees. He couldn't just admit that they were simply better, clap for them and move no. No, he had to blame somebody else for his well-deserved defeat.

Later, and since journalists love to watch the world burn, they asked Guardiola if he wanted to reply to Mourinho. He simply said "I have nothing to say".

Don't get me wrong though, I'm pretty sure Guardiola has made mistakes as manager, and I'm also quite sure he must've been unfair to some players like Eto'o. But unlike Ribéry, the Cameroonian was brave and decent enough to confront Pep face to face while he was still managing Barça.

Wonderfully well said

Valkyrja wrote:Someone who oozes class isn't ill spoken by one of his previous players

Strongly disagree. There isn't a top level coach who hasn't annoyed at least a few players. That's part of their job. They cannot be supremely successful if they try to be nice to everyone and few players have an honest enough sense of introspection to realize that quite often in contentious situations it's not the coach but the player who is at fault.

messixaviesta wrote:

Casciavit wrote:

They wouldn't have been trashed 4-0 against Madrid, but acting like they would have won the next 3 CL despite Madrid 2014, Barca 2015, and Atletico 2016 being better than any team they faced, is pretty absurd.

Fair enough but I would say not reaching a UCL final in three years after your predecessor had reached two of them in two successive years is an under-achievement given the quality of players at your disposal. One point in Pep's defense is that the best player of his Bayern era Arjen Robben was often injured when needed most and ditto with Franck Ribery. However he had a few transfer windows and sufficient cash to spend. So I think he should take some of the blame.

I understand why Bayern fans are angry, and it's reasonable as well. They won everything to win in 2013, and they expected Pep to replicate it, at least once during his tenure. It didn't happen, but that's football. However, you can't EXPECT to win the CL. That's asinine. Too many factors come into play, and we all know what they are. Pep does have his faults, and the 2014 and 2015 CL were mostly on him, but he's a young coach and he will make mistakes. At the end of the day, this was his first managerial experience outside of Barca, and it has made him a much much better coach.

When he was hired, Rummenigge and Hoeness wanted him to play a flexible, fluid style of football and he did exactly that. Trophies were a consequence of that playing style, and Pep did get Bayern some trophies. All he was missing was the CL which was the primary target, so in that aspect, he failed, but as I said above, winning the CL isn't easy, you need luck and for things to go your way, which didn't happen during Pep's tenure.

I'm bored, so let's analyze his three years in the CL:

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2014: Bayern did alright in the 1st leg. They weren't very threatening, but they controlled the ball. People were actually praising them for taking the game to Madrid. They lost 1-0 at the Bernabeu. I thought they were pretty meh, tbh.

The 2nd leg was a cockup. In Pep confidential, it's well documented on what happened. Pep wanted to play a 3-4-3 and control the game in the 2nd leg. The idea is that with the 3rd CB, they'd have a numerical advantage against Benz & CR (Madrid played 4-4-2 off the ball). With the extra midfielder, they'd have more control which would increase attacking opportunities.

However, prior to the match, the German players were talking about magical comebacks, so Pep went a with an attacking 4-3-3. It also didn't help that they would be playing a 3-4-3, for only the second time that season ( the first being a 3-0 friendly loss against RB Salzburg in the winter). So, as a result, the idea was binned.

What happened instead was that he played Mueller and Mandzukic, and due to Mueller's lack of positional discipline it became a 4-2-4, which made Bayern surrender control of the midfield and they got raped. Even if three of the four goals came from set pieces, they were dominated and looked awful.

This was on Pep for changing his gameplan.

2015: We all know the story. Bayern had an injury-ravaged team, and they lost 3-0 against Barca. They actually did pretty well and were starting to take control until Messi turned the game on its head and showed why he's the GOAT. They tried going for the away goal but then ended up losing the tie.

I'd blame injuries and Pep on this one. Bayern was without Ribery, Robben, and Alaba. Those are very important players. If we were to compare that to Barca, it would be as if they were missing Messi, Neymar, and Alves. Bayern was the weaker team, but they held their own until Messi changed the game. At the end of the day, it was going for the away goal that ended up losing them the tie. A 2-1 is much better than a 2-0, but they ended up losing 3-0. That's what happens when you are chasing a goal.

The 2nd leg, they won 3-2. They were alright, but at the same time one could argue Barca eased up after they had the 1-2 lead, and I wouldn't disagree with that. They still had a pretty good performance, though.

2016: IMO, they were the best team in the world alongside Barca. If the first year was adapting, and the second year was experimenting, then the third year was when it was all supposed to come together, and in terms of performances it kind of did.

In the first leg, they played a 4-3-3 (Vidal and Thiago were CM's). Mueller was benched and Coman was starting. It was really the typical thought process of how one should play against a team that parks the bus. Use out and out wingers, and stretch the narrow team.

Atletico started to press intensely and they scored from that first 30 min of high pressure, from a Saul wonder goal. Bayern tried to get Costa and Coman on 1v1 situations, but they lost all their individual duels against Juanfran and Felipe Luis. They created a few half chances but weren't exactly threatening. They still did better than most teams do at the Calderon, though.

In the second leg, they set out a perfect game plan. They overloaded the RW, and they created the chances to score. Apart from the 10 minutes in which Atletico moved from a 4-4-2 to a 4-5-1, and Bayern hadn't yet adapted, it was a total domination from Bayern. A true footballing display on how one should play against a parked bus.

IMO, they were clearly the better team, but luck just wasn't on their side. At the end of the day, they created the chances to score, but they just weren't clinical.

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Anyways CL aside, Bayern played some great football last season. In fact, Bayern 2016 was probably one of my favorite ever teams. Some of their memorable games:

3-0 against Leverkusen in the Bundesliga
5-1 against BVB in Bundesliga
5-1 against Arsenal in CL
3-1 against Wolfsburg in the DFB Pokal
2-2 against Juve, first leg (first 60 min. were something else)
2-1 against Atletico, second leg

I might be forgetting a few, but in these matches, they were something else. The patient build-up, the quick transitions, Alonso and Boateng switching the ball to the wingers, the wingers winning their 1v1s, Lewa attacking the near post, and Mueller attacking the far post. They controlled the ball and they controlled the space, they were very very good.

For me, all they were missing was a CL win to join the likes of Bayern 2013, Barca 2009, and Inter 2010 as one of the better teams in the last decade. They weren't as good as Barca 2011, but at the end of the day, you can't expect players who played a specific style since they were kids, which Pep teaches a version of, to be worse than a team who was in their third year of learning his style.

TL;DR: 2014 and 2015 = on Pep, 2016 = luck was against them, Bayern 2016 played some great footy

Casciavit, great read.

It's not always going to be about winning. Football is much deeper then that. The goal is to create a philosophy. And pep did that. Sure, he didn't win the CL, but Bayern were one hell of a team to watch. And they got very unlucky this year against athletico.

Let's not forget he made the semis every year. Ibra and ribery don't like him because they're dickheads. Maybe if ibra let his ego aside for once and starting playing he could've been a much better player as well.

FennecFox7 wrote:It's not always going to be about winning. Football is much deeper then that. The goal is to create a philosophy. And pep did that. Sure, he didn't win the CL, but Bayern were one hell of a team to watch. And they got very unlucky this year against athletico.

Let's not forget he made the semis every year. Ibra and ribery don't like him because they're dickheads. Maybe if ibra let his ego aside for once and starting playing he could've been a much better player as well.

As far as I am aware those who accept that, claim that Pep should have stayed at Bayern for much longer. If you are really looking to build something instead of short term gains then three years is not a long enough period.

"Pep made the semis" is sounding remarkably similar to Wenger's "He made the top 4".

How the mighty have fallen.

It's the CL. You don't have loads of games to get it right. And like I said, he did get it right, he was just unlucky in the end. It happens

Pep wasn't unlucky. His team was beaten by better opponents.

urbaNRoots wrote:"Pep made the semis" is sounding remarkably similar to Wenger's "He made the top 4".

How the mighty have fallen.

Ya because being CL semis is equivalent to finishing top 4 in BPL.