Ribery: Pep lacks experience

Valkyrja wrote:'He built a GOAT team'

That Barca team had some of the best individual talent of all time + the GOAT himself. He wouldn't have got past the semis in his Barca tenure without Messi in their roster. So basically his Bayern team is Barca minus Messi. I guess its harder to win CL without having a guy who can take an entire team by himself

Yes, he did build a GOAT team. Who was it that built the midfield around Xavi and Iniesta when it was widely regarded by the media, that they couldn't co-exist with one another in the midfield? Pep.

Who binned all the bad influences and gave Messi the primary attacking responsibility? Pep.

Who turned Pique into a CB who many regarded as one of the best in the world? Pep.

Who called up Busquets and made him a starter? Pep.

Who put Messi into the false 9? Pep.

Who made a scrub like Pedro look like an actual footballer? Pep.

---

But nah, let me guess any other coach would have done that, silly me. When things go wrong it's on the coach, when things go well it's because of the players.

Just proves why you are one of the worst posters on the forum. See yourself out son.

Casciavit wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:'He built a GOAT team'

That Barca team had some of the best individual talent of all time + the GOAT himself. He wouldn't have got past the semis in his Barca tenure without Messi in their roster. So basically his Bayern team is Barca minus Messi. I guess its harder to win CL without having a guy who can take an entire team by himself

Yes, he did build a GOAT team. Who was it that built the midfield around Xavi and Iniesta when it was widely regarded by the media, that they couldn't co-exist with one another in the midfield? Pep.

Who binned all the bad influences and gave Messi the primary attacking responsibility? Pep.

Who turned Pique into a CB who many regarded as one of the best in the world? Pep.

Who called up Busquets and made him a starter? Pep.

Who put Messi into the false 9? Pep.

Who made a scrub like Pedro look like an actual footballer? Pep.

---

But nah, let me guess any other coach would have done that, silly me. When things go wrong it's on the coach, when things go well it's because of the players.

Just proves why you are one of the worst posters on the forum. See yourself out son.

Wasn't Tito the one who told Pep to play Messi as a center forward as he used to play there in the youth teams ?

And you praise him for ditching Deco and Dinho who were long past their glory days and make the best player in the world the main guy ? Genius.

Let's talk about how he paid cash + Eto'o who went on to win the treble the following year for Ibra

Look I love Pep but winning CL with Messi is really, really unfair.

And it was still Pep who changed the team to play in a diamond attacking shape with Messi dropping deep. At the same time, he alienated a big money signing. It wasn't 'easy' to play Messi as a false 9. Even if it was Tito who gave the idea, it was Pep who adjusted the team accordingly.

The same players who another coach might have given another chance. Ronaldinho was BEGGING for one last chance, but Pep said nah fam. Also, giving the keys to Messi wasn't all that easy. He was very injury-prone and there were doubts about building a team around an injury prone player.

And he sold that same exact player a year later, and in that year later, he won a CL with a team many consider to be the very best.

As I said, if you're not going to give a legitimate counter-point don't bother debating.

Casciavit wrote:And it was still Pep who changed the team to play in a diamond attacking shape with Messi dropping deep. At the same time, he alienated a big money signing. It wasn't 'easy' to play Messi as a false 9. Even if it was Tito who gave the idea, it was Pep who adjusted the team accordingly.

The same players who another coach might have given another chance. Ronaldinho was BEGGING for one last chance, but Pep said nah fam. Also, giving the keys to Messi wasn't all that easy. He was very injury-prone and there were doubts about building a team around an injury prone player.

And he sold that same exact player a year later, and in that year later, he won a CL with a team many consider to be the very best.

As I said, if you're not going to give a legitimate counter-point don't bother debating.

The very best team with the very best manager but still couldn't have got past the semis without a certain Argentine dribbling an entire team to score the opening goal in the first leg of the tie at the Bernabeu.



It takes a genius to build your team around this guy

Casciavit wrote:

Lord Awesome wrote:A lot of Pep fans in GL seem more irritating than Pep himself, tbh. These  really believe his style of coaching is multidimensional and revolutionary. Pep only needed 1 CL, not 3, 1, to prove his mettle. I'm sure the hype will end once Pep is found out in PL and he'll end up like Rijkaard or something.

I've never understood your agenda against anything Barca-related. I mean, I can understand a post like this from a Madrid fan like Turok, or a premface, but what historical ties do Valencia-Barca have, for you to be so bitter? Unless, you're actually a Madrid fan, which would make your POV kind of understandable.

I understand this question as to the motives of my comments. I shall reveal.

To make this clear, I'm not even Spanish or an RM fan (I'm from LA). I chose to be a Valencia fan because they were not Barca or RM. I did almost become an RM fan but I didn't like how RM fans treat their own players when they're losing terribly. I know it's Spanish thing and all, but I'll never condone or understand why they do that. Valencia was rising in the late 90's/2000's and so I jumped ship and never left it.

As for my current standing, I don't have an agenda against Barca, specifically. If I did, you'd see me attacking Luis Enrique or the managers in between (tho I did critique Tata whom I thought was unsuitable for Barca). Really, I just don't enjoy Pep's style of managing. Ever since the Ovrebo incident along with with how he handled Ibra during his spell at Barca is when I started doubting Pep's prowess as a manager. While I do maintain that Pep did not flop at Bayern, he also didn't do what was expected him, according to pretty much everyone (media, fans, etc). People are still regarding him as an elite manger but I still don't see him there quite yet. That's it, really. Nothing deep or personal with him or the fans. Just stating my opinion.

I normally can handle opinions and respect everyone's thoughts, but lately when it comes to the subject of Pep's fans I loose my cool a bit. GL's influence gets me every now and then.

Hapless_Hans wrote:

Hit the nail on the head there, Mole. Amen.
It really is baffling.

Actually, he did. Pep fans seem to assume that Pep is judge on some imaginary higher basis.

Valkyrja wrote:

The very best team with the very best manager but still couldn't have got past the semis without a certain Argentine dribbling an entire team to score the opening goal in the first leg of the tie at the Bernabeu.



It takes a genius to build your team around this guy

Do you think Barca wouldn't have gone through if Messi didn't score that? Madrid were down 10 men and were defending pretty ridiculously, looking at that goal.

I mean when you park the bus for an entire game, and you end up losing a man, the team becomes much worse. Barca would have likely scored, wonder goal or not. If not, they would have won at Camp Nou. They were a better team, end of.

A club legend like Dinho begging for another chance (he was 28), while building your team around an injury-prone 21 year old Messi, wasn't exactly a move that didn't have risks. I'm not sure if every coach would have done that at the time, but the fact of the matter is that Pep did and it paid off dividends.  

If you weren't so blind, you should look back through newspapers, articles, and matches before Pep arrived. Barca were in the dumps and there was a lot of doubts about how Pep was building his team and the decisions he was making. People were asking for him to get sacked after just his first 2 matches in La Liga ffs.

As always the truth is in between the two extremes. Pep is not a fraud nor is he the greatest manager of all time. Is he the best in the world? That is a debatable claim, though I don't think anyone can say he isnt in the running.

I don't understand how it is people defending Pep that are derided around here. I haven't seen anyone claim that Pep at Bayern was an undisputed success. The only claim is that he hadn't outright failed, and that his tenure at Bayern was more or less neutral. He had some very good influences on the organization and the team played some breathtaking football--he had moderate success, yet failed to bring in a CL in three years with a couple (well I would argue one true) semifinal failures.

To me, that sounds reasonable. What it is that I don't understand is that many people claim that these people are being ridiculous whilst calling Pep a fraud, or playing down his achievements, or refusing to call him one of the best managers in the world.

What do you think is going to happen? People who enjoy watching Pep's teams will say "I agree, fraud, average coach, won CL cuz Messi, inherited god tier Barca team". No, they're going to defend him. And then when people defend Pep, the same people crying fraud go "here we go with those damn Pep fanboys again".

It's like Trump saying Muslims are inherently terrorist (example, made up), and then Muslims going... hey, wait a second that's not true at all, and then Trump going "see! They're defending radical Islamic violence!". It's ludicrous.

Take the Atletico loss. People laughed at Pep. Some posters like me pointed out that Pep set up the team very well, they dominated the game and very easily could have won with even mediocre finishing and a bit more luck. A reasonable response, and then you get "oh my god do you Pep fanboys ever stop?". As Mole said, for some reason he's judged at some higher standard. I don't think Pep fanboys are to blame...it's simply a reaction to the over the top criticism he gets on GL for some odd reason.

Ion Creanga wrote:

Donuts wrote:guy has 6 league titles and 2 champions league wins in just 7 years of managing.

ancelotti has 3 champions leagues and 3 leagues since.. what 1999? or whatever year he started coaching juve

Di Matteo 1 Champions League. Zidane 1 Champions league.
Simeone 0.

yeah, no your missing the point since his managing debut in a big team (aka not counting barca b) he's been 6/7 and 2/7

whereas ancelotti has been doing it for what, 17 give or take years (in a big team his juve start)
just find it funny how pep apparently hasn't surpassed him... guess he needs to fail acouple more times in the league to reach his "status"

pep is a relatively young manager hate him all you want it'd be incredible unlikely if he finishes his career without another champions league trophy and then what what would be the criticism from him?

Casciavit wrote:

rincon wrote:

Casciavit wrote:"Lot of work to get up to Mou, Ancelotti and Simeone."

The same Ancelotti who is a genuine league flop.

The same Mou who has only won 2 major trophies in the last 6 years, despite havin millions to spend. The same Mou who has left his last two teams in awful situations.

The same Simeone who gets bitch slapped every year by Real Madrid in the CL.

If you honestly think Pep is a level below them.

They're all around the same level, but there is no way Pep is below them.

Its a good thing football didn't start 6 years ago isn't it?

Mourinho won 2 trebles with Porto, the CL with inter and leagues with Madrid and Chelsea.

Pep sure as hell has to work to achieve such widespread success. Like I said, he has his career in ahead of him to achieve whatever.

Same with Ancelotti, success across teams and leagues, with 3 CLs to boot.

and I said "Simeone coming up to". Not that he had to work up to Simeone, but that Simeone is also, like Pep, on his way to become such a successful coach.

Why are you acting like Pep didn't win anything before he went to Bayern? He built one of the GOAT teams that won 14 trophies in 4 years. Or do past accomplishments for Pep not matter? Because, honestly on here, it seems like what matters is only the past 3 seasons for Pep, but for other coaches, we should take their entire careers into account. (:

Honestly, what makes Mou and Ancelotti on a higher level? Is it only experience? Because both of those two have had glaring issues in the past few years that aren't talked about nearly in the same breath as:

"HERP DERP PEP DIDN'T WIN CL, WHAT A FRAUD!"

Where exactly am I acting like Pep didn't win anything before Bayern? Where did I even mention Bayern?

You were the one disregarding past success by saying "6 years". In the past "6 years" Pep wasn't at Bayern, he was at Barca, so I don't know how you think I was talking about just his Bayern tenure even by your arbitrary terms. Your first paragraph doesn't make any sense with any sense with any of my posts. I was emphasizing the fact that the whole span of a coaches career and success matter, you are saying the exact opposite.

Of course it matters that Pep built a GOAT team, if he hadn't built that Barca team he wouldn't even be in this conversation. Do you realize how decorated a coach has to be to be considered among the top in the world? why is it unreasonable that Pep be a top 3 coach in the world? (please answer that question if you have the time). Why MUST he be rated by everyone as the best?

What do I think Mou and Carlo have over Pep? Experience, yes, experience. Something that is absolutely key for a coach. Mou and Carlo have a wealth of experience in many clubs and leagues and situations. Over a decade of experience and success matters.

What about achievements? Mourinho won the trebble with Porto! ffs think about that, and of course that after he had won the EL trebble with them. He followed that up with league titles in 3 other countries and a CL with Inter. And Carlo? he is the only manager in history with 3 CLs, and of course, a success in many teams just like Mou.

So how exactly is it laughable to rate these two above Pep? the way you speak you would think that it was some undeniable fact that Pep is the very best coach in the world, when in fact there is plenty of room to argue.

ES wrote:@futbol you gonna take that?

Yes. I'm too lazy for anything else.

Casciavit wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:'He built a GOAT team'

That Barca team had some of the best individual talent of all time + the GOAT himself. He wouldn't have got past the semis in his Barca tenure without Messi in their roster. So basically his Bayern team is Barca minus Messi. I guess its harder to win CL without having a guy who can take an entire team by himself

Yes, he did build a GOAT team. Who was it that built the midfield around Xavi and Iniesta when it was widely regarded by the media, that they couldn't co-exist with one another in the midfield? Aragones.

Who binned all the bad influences and gave Messi the primary attacking responsibility? Messi himself.

Who turned Pique into a CB who many regarded as one of the best in the world? Many are stupid.

Who called up Busquets and made him a starter? Pep.

Who put Messi into the false 9? Messi.

Who made a scrub like Pedro look like an actual footballer? La Masia. (:

---

But nah, let me guess any other coach would have done that, silly me. When things go wrong it's on the coach, when things go well it's because of the players.

Just proves why you are one of the worst posters on the forum. See yourself out son.

Fixed.

Casciavit wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:'He built a GOAT team'

That Barca team had some of the best individual talent of all time + the GOAT himself. He wouldn't have got past the semis in his Barca tenure without Messi in their roster. So basically his Bayern team is Barca minus Messi. I guess its harder to win CL without having a guy who can take an entire team by himself

Yes, he did build a GOAT team. Who was it that built the midfield around Xavi and Iniesta when it was widely regarded by the media, that they couldn't co-exist with one another in the midfield? Pep.

Who binned all the bad influences and gave Messi the primary attacking responsibility? Pep.

Who turned Pique into a CB who many regarded as one of the best in the world? Pep.

Who called up Busquets and made him a starter? Pep.

Who put Messi into the false 9? Pep.

Who made a scrub like Pedro look like an actual footballer? Pep.

---

But nah, let me guess any other coach would have done that, silly me. When things go wrong it's on the coach, when things go well it's because of the players.

Just proves why you are one of the worst posters on the forum. See yourself out son.

Look at this post. Pep sensationalism at it's best.

Who other than Pep Guardiola could possibly make XAVI and INIESTA work TOGETHER. HOLY SHITTTTTT.

Who turned this Pique kid - who managed to get a transfer to Manchester United long before Pep had any influence in him - into a world class CB. OMFGGGGG

Who made the most obvious move in football by playing your best forward centrally and closer to the goal. PEP OF COURSE. DAMN I'M CUMMIN'

WHO made a decent professional winger into a decent professional winger. OOOOOHHHH I'M DONE.

I don't get the critics. Pep is a fantastic coach, especially for one who just started a few years ago. His brand of football looked unbeatable with barca. There are a lot of things he did. He completely changed messis lifestyle, introduced busquets, made the team play the cruyff way, do I need to go on?

Lol mourinho really now. Some of you guys have no fking clue. That inter win was a fluke, plain and simple. He is a two year wonder with a shitty attitude and he has no idea how to break down teams with attack.

Yes, pep did improve pique. If you weren't aware genius, pique was riding the bench and was not exactly going to be a starter anytime soon.

I'm not even close to a barca fan and I'm defending him. Come on for once, can we please have some common sense

People don't realize Messi would've been another gago or afellay. Dude was made of glass before pep stepped in

FennecFox7 wrote:People don't realize Messi would've been another gago or afellay. Dude was made of glass before pep stepped in

Dying

Where did Guardiola acquire these magical healing skills that he stopped Messi from becoming another Gago or Afellay?

In the next episode of Netflix's "Pep Guardiola - the healer/genius/dad:

- How Pep Guardiola won Germany the World Cup 2014
- His influence on the success of Barcelona before he even started managing there (a must watch)
- On how he found the cure for cancer only for Jose Mourinho to interrupt the process

He did save Messi from injuries. Ask any barca fan when pep took over, it's common knowledge that Messi was very injury prone.

You think you're funny but you're a tool buddy

wtf

http://www.givemesport.com/372197-lionel-messi-the-barcelona-star-and-his-injury-problems

There you go

Ok

FennecFox7 wrote:That inter win was a fluke, plain and simple. He is a two year wonder with a shitty attitude and he has no idea how to break down teams with attack.

Fluke?? They beat Chelsea, Barcelona and Bayern, what a fluke
But people don't discredit Mourinho for no reason...

Mourinho's Inter is easily one of the best teams of this century. So well constructed and effective. Great great pragmatic team who knew how to play for the result.

Valkyrja wrote:Mourinho's Inter is easily one of the best teams of this century. So well constructed and effective. Great great pragmatic team who knew how to play for the result.

Tbf it indeed was team very well constructed with Mourinho's approach in mind.
That approach of course being to waste as much time as possible, so correspondingly Mourinho assembled a lot of veteran old players who wouldn't look too suspicious just lying around the pitch for the better part of 90 minutes.

Maicon ffs
Usually, after about 4-7 minutesplayed , the guy would just lie down on the ground in mid play and not get up for another 3 minutes

The wounds of the final still fresh I see, I feel it too, they dominated us in Serie A
That team was incredibly strong though, very very well constructed and balanced with WC players everywhere and in-sync.
Their CL games were so entertaining to watch for me.

And then this guy with the stupid helmet, with the straps open
don't get me started on this guy

was it Chivu or Pandev
like a mickey mouse whose ears had been cut off

I'm fairly sure he only wore this helmet so he could do stupid shit on the pitch, like kicking a ball away or rolling around, and get away with it more easily because he gave the impression of a mentally handicapped kid who needs a helmet to not hit his head at doors, walls, or floors ffs