Is Gonzalo Higuain worth €94 million???

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Post by Warrior Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:42 am

dronte wrote:
heffkzar wrote:It's 47M this year and the same amount next year from what i read.

Since the team is basically complete, next summer we won't spend much exception made of that second instalment.

Some players on the roster just don't play with the team any more, hopefully some deals can be sealed for them so by next year

Zaza, Hernanes, Isla, Marrone, De Ceglie and some of y'all would probably add Pereyra

will be sold.... Well i think it covers the 47M for 2017, while Pogba sale covers all of July 2016 transfers.

I've read this thing multiple times that we only have to pay 47m this year, so we will make profits.. but people seem to forget that almost all of our transfers from last year and even before that are still being paid in 2016. It's not working like this, you either evaluate all transfers in their current year fully (like we usually do because it's easier to follow), or you keep track of every transfer instalments.

Also, saying that we won't have to spend much next year is pretty bold, as every year there are pretty huge movements even if the team seems to be complete (e.g. the year Vidal and Pirlo left)



Vidal wanted to leave and Pirlo was clearly at the end of his rope. Tevez left also.

However, our 2014-2015 season evaluation was kind of biased by going to CL final. The team wasn't complete at this time. We just had quality midfielders + a good defence + Tevez. Now it is complete, the team is set for 2-3 years. Which is about the lifespan of a successful roster as a whole in modern day football.

I doubt we spend much on players for the next 12-24 months, especially if the plan goes well and we achieve something in CL.

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Post by futbol_bill Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:33 am

sportsczy wrote:People completely warped the point I made in the general section... so I'll post here so it's clear. The only reason 94 mil seems outrageous to me is that Juve won't be able to sell him for much come 2-4 years. He's turning 29 in less than 6 months.

Most monster fees like this have been for players in their teens or very early 20s recently (Neymar, Bale, James, Martial and probably Pogba). You haven't seen a monster number like this for an older player. Also, Higuain is not a world superstar. In fact, although very good, I don't rate him as a top 5 CF in the world. I have Ibra, Lewa, Benzema, Suarez, Aguero and Aubameyang ahead of him. If you consider Messi and Ronaldo as strikers too... then he falls even lower in my eyes.

Basically, he's not a young phenom or a mature football icon. He's just a very good football player in his late prime (best years for a football player typically). I'm not arguing that he won't improve Juve... he will. He's miles and miles better than Mandzu or Morata. I'm just stunned at the pricetag. Maybe I shouldn't be Laughing


Is there anyone else out there than considers Benzema, a top 5 CF, other than these Real Madrid so called fans that still haven't got over the Benz vs Pepito battles?
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Post by sportsczy Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:50 pm

Yeah...  Carlo, Zidane and even Mourinho.  All 3 said it before the Euro when asked about the impact of Benz missing the tournament for France.  Only manager he played for who didn't rate him was Pellegrini.
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Post by futbol_bill Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:27 pm

Is there anyone else on GL agreeing with Benz top 5 assessment?
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Post by lucianomoggi Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:32 pm

Benzema is sure a good player
he sure is one of the TOP there is no reason to discuss rather if he is better than Lewandowski, Suarez, Ibra, and more other Top strikers I think it is nonsense discussion

in football results tell who is the best if a striker scores so many goals like SUAREZ I don't care what you think about him he sure is the best because a player may have qualities one cannot recognize that leads to the goals

for example INZAGHI may not had qualities like dribbling or whatsoever, but he had important qualities whatsoever that was if positioning or concentration or whatsoever, was leading to the goals, and that is the quality you may not recognize

but you simply check out who scored most goals and assists, those are the top 5 strikers

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Post by juve_gigi Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:54 pm

sportsczy wrote:People completely warped the point I made in the general section... so I'll post here so it's clear.  The only reason 94 mil seems outrageous to me is that Juve won't be able to sell him for much come 2-4 years.  He's turning 29 in less than 6 months.

Most monster fees like this have been for players in their teens or very early 20s recently (Neymar, Bale, James, Martial and probably Pogba).  You haven't seen a monster number like this for an older player.  Also, Higuain is not a world superstar.  In fact, although very good, I don't rate him as a top 5 CF in the world.  I have Ibra, Lewa, Benzema, Suarez, Aguero and Aubameyang ahead of him.  If you consider Messi and Ronaldo as strikers too...  then he falls even lower in my eyes.  

Basically, he's not a young phenom or a mature football icon.  He's just a very good football player in his late prime (best years for a football player typically).  I'm not arguing that he won't improve Juve... he will.  He's miles and miles better than Mandzu or Morata.  I'm just stunned at the pricetag.  Maybe I shouldn't be Laughing


You must have not been around when Real Madrid paid a world record fee of $75 million back like 15 years ago for a then 29 year old Zidane. I'm not a mathematician but if you inflate that price to today's dollars that probably is close to $150 million today. Real ended up winning a Chamoions League with said player so the money was recouped that way. Real never made a penny off his eventual resale as Zidane simply retired as a Real player.

As for Juve we used part of that money and set our own record by purchasing a 29 year old Nedved for $41 million. Which again in today's inflated market works out to around $80 million. We went to a Champions League final with him and almost won. If it wasn't for Calciopoli we may have won at least one CL title with Nedved. Again Juve never recouped that $41 million from that purchase. We never got a penny back.  Nedved retired a Juventino in 2009.

I'm not suggesting Higuain is at the level of Zidane or Nedved, but my point is Real and Juve never directly recovered those transfer fees from future sales of those players. Obviously those players were well past their prime dates once the teams used them up. But they did recoup the money from other channels, specifically the money they made by going to the CL final.

With Higuain it's the same thing. Juve is not thinking of collecting back the fee from a future sale. They are only thinking of one thing. And that is to win the Chamoions League. If that happens then the $90 million is money well spent. And the winner of the CL last year, Real Madrid, made over $94 million from that championship. So Juve can recoup their money that way.

It's a gamble but something Juve is willing to risk for Champions League glory. Now you can state your case with your hyperbole that Higuain is a choker, but obviously Juve see a different player from last year in Higuain and they are ready to take the risk that he is in the form of his life and when partnered with his buddy Dybala will form a lethal one-two combination that hopefully will erase his choker status. We will see what happens.
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Post by juve_gigi Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:04 pm

futbol_bill wrote:Is there anyone else on GL agreeing with Benz top 5 assessment?


As of this morning Higuain > Benzema

Higuain is in the form of his life. That is why Juve are buying him. With Dybala he could hit 40 goals next year. As for the CL well Higuain will obviuolsy have to prove the doubters wrong and erase his choker status.

But yes based on today Higuain IS a top 5 CF in the world and Benzema is not.
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Post by rincon Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:17 pm

Of course Higuain a top 5 CF. Top 2 this season with Suarez, he broke the 80+ year old scoring with Napoli while doing everything right, imposing all around play.

I don't think any player is worth 90mill, too much money for anything. But this is football now, I never thought it would happen but I def take it. Can't get a better CF than him since Suarez won't leave Barca any time soon.
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Post by S Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:19 pm

juve_gigi wrote:
sportsczy wrote:People completely warped the point I made in the general section... so I'll post here so it's clear.  The only reason 94 mil seems outrageous to me is that Juve won't be able to sell him for much come 2-4 years.  He's turning 29 in less than 6 months.

Most monster fees like this have been for players in their teens or very early 20s recently (Neymar, Bale, James, Martial and probably Pogba).  You haven't seen a monster number like this for an older player.  Also, Higuain is not a world superstar.  In fact, although very good, I don't rate him as a top 5 CF in the world.  I have Ibra, Lewa, Benzema, Suarez, Aguero and Aubameyang ahead of him.  If you consider Messi and Ronaldo as strikers too...  then he falls even lower in my eyes.  

Basically, he's not a young phenom or a mature football icon.  He's just a very good football player in his late prime (best years for a football player typically).  I'm not arguing that he won't improve Juve... he will.  He's miles and miles better than Mandzu or Morata.  I'm just stunned at the pricetag.  Maybe I shouldn't be Laughing


You must have not been around when Real Madrid paid a world record fee of $75 million back like 15 years ago for a then 29 year old Zidane. I'm not a mathematician but if you inflate that price to today's dollars that probably is close to $150 million today. Real ended up winning a Chamoions League with said player so the money was recouped that way. Real never made a penny off his eventual resale as Zidane simply retired as a Real player.

As for Juve we used part of that money and set our own record by purchasing a 29 year old Nedved for $41 million. Which again in today's inflated market works out to around $80 million. We went to a Champions League final with him and almost won. If it wasn't for Calciopoli we may have won at least one CL title with Nedved. Again Juve never recouped that $41 million from that purchase. We never got a penny back.  Nedved retired a Juventino in 2009.

I'm not suggesting Higuain is at the level of Zidane or Nedved, but my point is Real and Juve never directly recovered those transfer fees from future sales of those players. Obviously those players were well past their prime dates once the teams used them up. But they did recoup the money from other channels, specifically the money they made by going to the CL final.

With Higuain it's the same thing. Juve is not thinking of collecting back the fee from a future sale. They are only thinking of one thing. And that is to win the Chamoions League. If that happens then the $90 million is money well spent. And the winner of the CL last year, Real Madrid, made over $94 million from that championship. So Juve can recoup their money that way.

It's a gamble but something Juve is willing to risk for Champions League glory. Now you can state your case with your hyperbole that Higuain is a choker, but obviously Juve see a different player from last year in Higuain and they are ready to take the risk that he is in the form of his life and when partnered with his buddy Dybala will form a lethal one-two combination that hopefully will erase his choker status. We will see what happens.


All that needs to be said.

We're a big club. This investment was made to win the CL in the next two years. Pretty simple. None is going to bat an eyelid regarding the price if we go on and win it as winning a CL alone will do wonders to Juve's brand for many years going ahead.

You would think an efficient management such as this would've totally studied the financial details and the effect it could have on our financial future before proceeding to make an investment like this.

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Post by Luca Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:22 pm

Blasphemy

Short term thinking has paved the way for success in every generation, sporting or otherwise.

One day at a time guys :coffee:

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Post by S Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:23 pm

Paul Pogba could opt to stay at Juventus if things are not so convincing by Man United. [Sky]

Proud

Not believing this shit anyway.
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Post by Luca Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:29 pm

S wrote:Paul Pogba could opt to stay at Juventus if things are not so convincing by Man United. [Sky]

Proud

Not believing this shit anyway.


Me neither, the only thing this apparent uncertainty and media propaganda will do is get the fee sorted out sooner rather than later.

I'd rather see him at Real Madrid than Manchester United, there's nothing for him there right now. Mourinho is a 3 year manager, Ibrahimovic is a short term signing and Rooney would not start for a relegation serie a team as a central midfielder but I'll just mind my own business.

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Post by lucianomoggi Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:43 pm

Rooney makes a good cam player
His shots are good
His through balls are good
His positioning is good

Considering that he is dropping speed and stamina you cannot expect from him to run wide , like asking pirlo to run wide is just too much

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Post by Luca Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:53 pm

lucianomoggi wrote:Rooney makes a good cam player
His shots are good
His through balls are good
His positioning is good

Considering that he is dropping speed and stamina you cannot expect from him to run wide , like asking pirlo to run wide is just too much


Not really surprised you're supporting him, he had a similar career trajectory as Hernanes after all

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Post by salmano9 Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:01 pm

Luca wrote:
lucianomoggi wrote:Rooney makes a good cam player
His shots are good
His through balls are good
His positioning is good

Considering that he is dropping speed and stamina you cannot expect from him to run wide , like asking pirlo to run wide is just too much


Not really surprised you're supporting him, he had a similar career trajectory as Hernanes after all

This Hernanes banter Laughing Laughing

On the recent reports, I still think that it is possible for us to keep Pogba this seasonat least.
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Post by Kaladin Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:02 pm

I am so jealous ffs Sad
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Post by juve_gigi Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:27 pm

Luca wrote:
lucianomoggi wrote:Rooney makes a good cam player
His shots are good
His through balls are good
His positioning is good

Considering that he is dropping speed and stamina you cannot expect from him to run wide , like asking pirlo to run wide is just too much


Not really surprised you're supporting him, he had a similar career trajectory as Hernanes after all


You mean HERNANES...
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Post by lucianomoggi Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:37 pm

juve_gigi wrote:
Luca wrote:
lucianomoggi wrote:Rooney makes a good cam player
His shots are good
His through balls are good
His positioning is good

Considering that he is dropping speed and stamina you cannot expect from him to run wide , like asking pirlo to run wide is just too much


Not really surprised you're supporting him, he had a similar career trajectory as Hernanes after all


You mean HERNANES...



MAN UNITED has been through bad performances
this season with better team mates
you will get to see how RONNEY play CAM

RONNEY makes a perfect CAM player

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Post by Katy Perry Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:43 pm

juve_gigi wrote:
sportsczy wrote:People completely warped the point I made in the general section... so I'll post here so it's clear.  The only reason 94 mil seems outrageous to me is that Juve won't be able to sell him for much come 2-4 years.  He's turning 29 in less than 6 months.

Most monster fees like this have been for players in their teens or very early 20s recently (Neymar, Bale, James, Martial and probably Pogba).  You haven't seen a monster number like this for an older player.  Also, Higuain is not a world superstar.  In fact, although very good, I don't rate him as a top 5 CF in the world.  I have Ibra, Lewa, Benzema, Suarez, Aguero and Aubameyang ahead of him.  If you consider Messi and Ronaldo as strikers too...  then he falls even lower in my eyes.  

Basically, he's not a young phenom or a mature football icon.  He's just a very good football player in his late prime (best years for a football player typically).  I'm not arguing that he won't improve Juve... he will.  He's miles and miles better than Mandzu or Morata.  I'm just stunned at the pricetag.  Maybe I shouldn't be Laughing


You must have not been around when Real Madrid paid a world record fee of $75 million back like 15 years ago for a then 29 year old Zidane. I'm not a mathematician but if you inflate that price to today's dollars that probably is close to $150 million today. Real ended up winning a Chamoions League with said player so the money was recouped that way. Real never made a penny off his eventual resale as Zidane simply retired as a Real player.

As for Juve we used part of that money and set our own record by purchasing a 29 year old Nedved for $41 million. Which again in today's inflated market works out to around $80 million. We went to a Champions League final with him and almost won. If it wasn't for Calciopoli we may have won at least one CL title with Nedved. Again Juve never recouped that $41 million from that purchase. We never got a penny back.  Nedved retired a Juventino in 2009.

I'm not suggesting Higuain is at the level of Zidane or Nedved, but my point is Real and Juve never directly recovered those transfer fees from future sales of those players. Obviously those players were well past their prime dates once the teams used them up. But they did recoup the money from other channels, specifically the money they made by going to the CL final.

With Higuain it's the same thing. Juve is not thinking of collecting back the fee from a future sale. They are only thinking of one thing. And that is to win the Chamoions League. If that happens then the $90 million is money well spent. And the winner of the CL last year, Real Madrid, made over $94 million from that championship. So Juve can recoup their money that way.

It's a gamble but something Juve is willing to risk for Champions League glory. Now you can state your case with your hyperbole that Higuain is a choker, but obviously Juve see a different player from last year in Higuain and they are ready to take the risk that he is in the form of his life and when partnered with his buddy Dybala will form a lethal one-two combination that hopefully will erase his choker status. We will see what happens.


Yea. A perhaps more apt transfer comparison is when in 1992 Juve bought 28 years old Vialli from Sampdoria (which was an elite team back then winning Serie A in 1991 and reaching CL final in 1992) for 15M (which was an exhorbitant fee at that time and caused clamour like Higuain's one) with him becoming captain and leading Juve to a Scudetto they had been missing for 10 years and the CL in 1996 and then joining on a free transfer Chelsea the same year.

It's also about sending a message, that Juve isn't a feeder club like Dortmund and Porto but one of the powerhouses in Europe.
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