Re: 10 best of all times

by rincon Thu 14 Jul 2016, 12:08

Kebab wrote:Is it who won more list or?
because there are at least 50 players better than CR when it comes to performances. from recent memories Baggio rivaldo iniesta plays far better than CR in a football match.Even injury free Robben is more dangerous player. How you make top 10 "best ever" list when Bale plays better than you?

We should make a research about other legends too. those famous names who usually makes top 10 lists. were they really great? or they are just random famous names?
We need to watch their full matches. at least 15 matches.10 minutes of tricks show compilation doesnt convince me

Many players play better than CR in many games. Top Robben like you say can be better. But Kommander is just too consistent. I can't ignore that many goals that often. He has been scoring over 50 goals or so for 6 seasons in a row. CLs, Leagues, now Eurocup too. He is in my top 10 because almost none of the past greats, whose ceilings were a lot higher than CR, did it every week like he does.

by Harmonica Sun 17 Jul 2016, 01:54

Kebab wrote:Is it who won more list or?
because there are at least 50 players better than CR when it comes to performances. from recent memories Baggio rivaldo iniesta plays far better than CR in a football match.Even injury free Robben is more dangerous player. How you make top 10 "best ever" list when Bale plays better than you?

We should make a research about other legends too. those famous names who usually makes top 10 lists. were they really great? or they are just random famous names?
We need to watch their full matches. at least 15 matches.10 minutes of tricks show compilation doesnt convince me

That's the difference of casual fanboy and real world views.

Pele got outplayed by Didi in WC58, Garrincha in WC62 and Jairzinho in WC70, yet magically it means Pele is supposedly the best ever. rofl

by breva Sun 17 Jul 2016, 02:02

If you exclude Giuseppe Meazza it isn't an all-time list. He was the first worldwide football star. The first football player with personal sponsorships.

"I also saw Pelé playing. He did not achieve Meazza's elegant style of playing. One day, at the Arena, I witnessed him doing something astonishing: he stopped the ball with a bicycle kick, elevating himself two meters from the ground. Then he landed with the ball glued at his foot, dribbled over an astonished defender, and then went on scoring a goal with one of his hallmark shots, sardonic and accurate to the millimeter."[15]

— Luigi Veronelli

by zigra Sun 17 Jul 2016, 02:22

That quote is from an Italian wine critic hmm

by RealGunner Sun 17 Jul 2016, 02:45

Thought he was a guy who appears in Breva's talk show

by breva Sun 17 Jul 2016, 03:17

"He was described in Paris' Match newspaper as "the master of finishing" in 1931, while The Times of England wrote in 1933: "His dash, intelligence and rapid and powerful shooting, coupled with his peculiar capacity for enticing the goalkeeper out of his goal, have won for him many admirers, who declare that he is unrivalled." He had several signature techniques, not least la foglia morta - the dead leaf - in which a shot would appear destined to sail over the crossbar before suddenly dropping down, like a leaf from a tree, into the goal."

http://www.espnfc.us/story/1158191/the-mavericks-giuseppe-meazza

by breva Sun 17 Jul 2016, 03:27

By the way, it's not my talk show. I do often contribute to the "Football Show" which is one of the programs on the SiriusXM FC channel. Got a problem with it Real Gunner?

by juve_gigi Sun 17 Jul 2016, 03:39

Giuseppe Meazza is an Italian legend and one of the greatest players ever. Widely regarded as the greatest player of his generation, he won back to back World Cups with Italia in 1934 and 1938. He also won the Golden Ball in 1934. He is so revered in Milan that the San Siro stadium is named after him.

Nobody including me saw him play but I'm sure if anyone is still alive from the 1930's they will tell you he is one of the top 10 greatest footballers ever...

by McAgger Sun 17 Jul 2016, 04:16

IMO

1. Messi (GOAT)

R9 (pre-injury greatest striker of all time)
Cruyff
Maradona

Pele
Di Stefano
Nesta (greatest defender of all time)
Beckenbauer

Zidane
Maldini
Buffon (greatest keeper of all time)

by Harmonica Sun 17 Jul 2016, 10:37

I think MrNick forgot two zeros from Top when he was talking fakenaldo. Laughing

by Bankz Sun 17 Jul 2016, 16:32

Pretty much what dcmj said.. Although I consider pre injury R9 the most talented footballer of all time, followed by maradona. But regardless anyway, I wouldn't fault his (DCMJ) list one bit except remove zidane from it. Crazy list tbh

by El Gunner Sun 17 Jul 2016, 16:57

Don't call me James wrote:IMO

1. Messi (GOAT)

R9 (pre-injury greatest striker of all time)
Cruyff
Maradona

Pele
Di Stefano
Nesta (greatest defender of all time)
Beckenbauer

Zidane
Maldini
Buffon (greatest keeper of all time)

Must say I'm a bit surprised Suarez hasn't found a way into this list (:

And, also this

titosantill wrote:i don't know if a best ten can be made if one hasn't seen the players play. i understand the significance of team and individual laurels. but i think the eye test is also important, than just resumes alone. who's to say cruyff should be in a top ten and not puskas? or di stefano and not eusebio, if you haven't actually watched them and experienced their peak.
the game has grown so big, that its too broad to create a top ten over the past 60 or so years. especially when you take into account that even a top ten defenders list ever, is still very broad

by McAgger Sun 17 Jul 2016, 17:53

El Gunner wrote:
Must say I'm a bit surprised Suarez hasn't found a way into this list (:

Rest assured he's higher than Cristiano.

by Curtinho Mon 25 Jul 2016, 21:45

Hum, hum, hum...

1. Messi
2. Cruyff
3. Pele
4. Di Stefano
5. Platini
6. CR7
7. Maradona
8. Maldini
9. Beckenbauer
10. van Basten

Honorable mentions to a few like Puskas, R9, Ronaldinho, Best, Eusebio, Muller, etc.

To me consistency is more important than talent or peak. We've seen many players come out and dominate single games or single tournaments, but the players that can consistently do it at a high level for a long period of time (prime) separate themselves from those kind of players.

by Valkyrja Mon 25 Jul 2016, 21:55

Harmonica wrote:
Kebab wrote:Is it who won more list or?
because there are at least 50 players better than CR when it comes to performances. from recent memories Baggio rivaldo iniesta plays far better than CR in a football match.Even injury free Robben is more dangerous player. How you make top 10 "best ever" list when Bale plays better than you?

We should make a research about other legends too. those famous names who usually makes top 10 lists. were they really great? or they are just random famous names?
We need to watch their full matches. at least 15 matches.10 minutes of tricks show compilation doesnt convince me
That's the difference of casual fanboy and real world views.

Pele got outplayed by Didi in WC58, Garrincha in WC62 and Jairzinho in WC70, yet magically it means Pele is supposedly the best ever.

Yet jairzinho did jack shit without Pele in 74. As good as Rivelino, Jairzinho and Gerson were Pele was still head and shoulders above anyone of that 70 Brazil team.

by Harmonica Tue 26 Jul 2016, 10:17

Valkyrja wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
Kebab wrote:Is it who won more list or?
because there are at least 50 players better than CR when it comes to performances. from recent memories Baggio rivaldo iniesta plays far better than CR in a football match.Even injury free Robben is more dangerous player. How you make top 10 "best ever" list when Bale plays better than you?

We should make a research about other legends too. those famous names who usually makes top 10 lists. were they really great? or they are just random famous names?
We need to watch their full matches. at least 15 matches.10 minutes of tricks show compilation doesnt convince me
That's the difference of casual fanboy and real world views.

Pele got outplayed by Didi in WC58, Garrincha in WC62 and Jairzinho in WC70, yet magically it means Pele is supposedly the best ever.

Yet jairzinho did jack shit without Pele in 74. As good as Rivelino, Jairzinho and Gerson were Pele was still head and shoulders above anyone of that 70 Brazil team.

And Pele did jack shit after Coutinho left Santos lmao. Pele was nowhere near Jairzinho in WC70.

by Bankz Tue 26 Jul 2016, 11:29

1. Pele
2. Maradona
3. Messi
4. Cruyff
5. R9
6. Di stefano
7. Puskas
8. Platini
9. Beckenbauer
10. Maldini

by sportsczy Wed 27 Jul 2016, 10:41

Di Stefano
Pele
Maradona
Cruyff
Beckenbauer
Zidane
Messi
Platini
Garrincha
Maldini

George Best, Puskas, Eusebio, Baresi, etc. could all easily make the list too. Too many great footballers. R9's peak was too short... similar to Ronaldinho.

by Curtinho Wed 27 Jul 2016, 13:19

Not having R7 on an all time top 10 list is just bitterness, imo.

by Cruijf Wed 27 Jul 2016, 14:45

No, it's common sense Laughing

Messi
Crujff
Pele
Maradona
Zico
Van Basten
Beckenbauer
Maldini
Xavi
Garrincha

Who of these is R7 better than?

R7 is a great great player but he's not one of the GOATs. Simple as that.

by Curtinho Wed 27 Jul 2016, 20:52

Well, you've seen my list. I have him over a lot of those players. Being an ATG is more than just talent it's also about accomplishment. Look at those players and please tell me how many of them truly compare to this:

World
Most international goals in a calendar year: 25 (in 2012, shared with Vivian Woodward and Lionel Messi)[562]
First footballer to reach 40 goals in a professional league for two consecutive seasons[562]
Only player to score in every minute of an official football game[243]
Only player to win the League title, Domestic Cup, Domestic Supercup, Champions League, Club World Cup, League Player of the Year, Golden Shoe and Ballon d'Or at two different clubs (Manchester United and Real Madrid)[563][564]
Most appearances in the FIFPro World XI: 8 times (2007–2014) (shared with Lionel Messi)[565]
First and only player to appear in the FIFPro World XI for two different clubs.
Only player to have won more than one FIFA Club World Cup Silver Ball.[566]
Only player in the world who has scored in the 2004, 2008, 2012 and 2016 editions of the European Championship; and in the 2006, 2010 and 2014 editions of the World Cup.[567]

Europe
Most goals scored in European competitions (club football): 96 goals
Most goals scored in the UEFA Champions League: 94 goals
Most goals scored in a UEFA Champions League/European Cup season: 17 goals in 2013–14[568]
Most goals scored in the UEFA Champions League group stage: 11 goals in 2015–16[285][286]
Most goals scored in UEFA Champions League knockout phase: 42 goals
Most UEFA Champions League goals scored in a calendar year: 15 goals in 2013[569]
Only player to score 15 or more UEFA Champions League goals in two different seasons: in 2013–14 and 2015–16[570]
The first player in the history of UEFA Champions League to score three hat-tricks in a single season: in 2015–16[570]
Only footballer to have won the European Golden Shoe in two different leagues: English Premier League (2007–08) and Spanish La Liga (2010–11, 2013–14, 2014–15)[571]
Most goals scored in the UEFA European Championship, including qualifying: 29 goals, for Portugal[363]
Most career goals at UEFA European Championship finals: 9 goals, for Portugal (tied with Michel Platini)[572]
Only player to have scored at four UEFA European Championship finals: 2004, 2008, 2012, 2016[572]
Only player to have scored three or above (goals) at more than one UEFA European Championship finals: 3 goals in 2012 and in 2016[572]
Most headed goals at UEFA European Championship finals: 5[572]
Highest appearance-maker at UEFA European Championship finals: 20 appearances[572]
First player to appear in three UEFA European Championship semi-finals: 2004, 2012, 2016 (Germany's Bastian Schweinsteiger featured in his third last-four clash 24 hours later)[572]
First player to ever score 10 goals in four consecutive UEFA Champions League seasons: 2011–12 to 2014–15
Only player to score for two different winning teams in the European Cup: Manchester United (2007–08) and Real Madrid (2013–14)[573]
Most away goals scored in Champions League history: 42 goals[574]
Most consecutive UEFA Champions League away games scored in: 12
Most wins in the UEFA Champions League Knockout phase: 29 wins
Most braces scored in the UEFA Champions League: 20
Most European Golden Shoe awards: 4
Most UEFA Team of the Year appearances: 10 times[575]
Most consecutive appearances in the UEFA Team of the Year: 9 (2007–2015)
Only player to appear in more than position in the UEFA Team of the Year.[575]
Only player to be among the finalists for all the editions of the UEFA Best Player in Europe Award: 2010–11 to 2014–15[576]
Fastest player to score 350 goals for one club (335 games)[577]

Spain
Most hat-tricks in La Liga history: 30[578]
Fastest La Liga player to score 150 league goals (140 games)[560][579]
Fastest La Liga player to score 200 league goals (178 games)[560][258]
Fastest player to reach 300 official club goals[560]
Most consecutive Clásico matches scored in: 6 matches[580]
Best scoring start in a Spanish league season: 15 goals in eight rounds[254]
Fastest footballer to score 20 league goals: 12 games (missed one game due to injury)[581]
Only player to reach 30 goals in six consecutive La Liga seasons[582]
Most teams scored against in a season (2012–13): 19 (shared with Ronaldo and Lionel Messi)[583]
Most La Liga hat-tricks in a season: 8 hat-tricks (shared with Lionel Messi)[584]
Most hat-tricks scored in all competitions: 36[560][585]

Real Madrid
Real Madrid all-time top goalscorer: 360 goals[560][586]
Top goalscorer in La Liga: 256 goals[560][587]
Fastest player to reach 50 league goals[588]
Fastest player to reach 100 league goals[589]
Fastest player to reach 200 official goals[590]
Fastest player to reach 250 official goals[560]
Most goals scored in seven consecutive league matches: 15 goals[591]
First player to score in eight consecutive matchdays[592]
Most hat-tricks in Real Madrid's history: 37[560][585]
Real Madrid Record Goalscorer in UEFA Champions League: 78 goals[560]
Real Madrid Record Goalscorer in European Competitions: 80 goals*

Say what you want about his evolution into a 'pure poacher', and ignoring the fact that people value flash over intelligent movement and results (eg. anyone putting Maradona over Platini or Ronaldo), and also ignoring that Ronaldo is 31 and still coming off a 50 goal 15 assist season, but his accolades speak for themselves. He could literally do nothing on a pitch but score goals and he would still be an all-time great with his record. People don't like his personality and his selfish type of play, but at the end of the day how many players, if any, will go down more decorated than him? Anyone can have a great tournament, or have a ton of talent, but it's that consistency at the top of the world literally since 2007 that sets him a part from a lot of those names.

Xavi over Ronaldo? Honestly? People also forget because they'll say 'oh so and so at their peak blah blah blah' but Ronaldo in 2008 was an absolute monster and has approached that level a few times. I'm heavily biased toward the Dutch but van Basten really?

*Note I think some of those records are even outdated as he's increased them since.

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