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Post by sportsczy on Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:53 pm

Once upon a time... Roy Keane was on a relegation team in 1993 despite him winning player of the year in EPL. Juninho Paulista was also a very good player in the Middlesbrough team of 1997.

You can't just say "he was on a relegation team so he's not worth it". That's dismissive.

Heck, Baresi, Bierhoff, Batistuta, Podolski and even Ibra (Malmo got relegated in his first season) suffered through it... Baresi, Bierhoff and Batistuta were in their prime years too. Baresi twice was on a relegation team Laughing.

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Post by titosantill on Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:07 am

roy keane was like 21/22 in 1993, ibra at malmo was either in his late teens or early 20s. baresi wasn't even 23 years old either of the times milan got relegated. sissoko is NOT batigol, you could watch batistuta and know, okay this guy's  going somewhere, batistuta was already making a name for himself with argenting before the relegation....its ridiculous to even have them in the same sentence. i don't care for podolski, never cared for him.

bierhoff; great header of the ball. sissoko's 26, on a relegation team, and we're talking 35 million? no way you can spin this one to compare him to those names you listed. he's not some young prodigy, and he's not some special player who just had the misfortune of playing with scrubs....he's just plain sissoko, even you don't want him on your french team, yet you bring up guys like keane, baresi, batigol and ibra....ibra would definitely be offended if he heard about this comparison
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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:15 am

I think, and I could be wrong, that sports secretly wants Real Madrid to be an all-French team.

At least with Pogba, you still had a case because the guy, though extremely overrated, is still talented. But Sissoko? No matter how you spin it you can't convince anybody that we should go for him.

He's no good enough. In fact, he's not good at all. And for 35m? Come on.

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Post by titosantill on Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:18 am

let's not act like sissoko's beasting on this relegation side. and none of those players, though much better, went from their situation for a huge fee like the one i'm hearing on sissoko.this doesn't look much different from the move we made for that guy at west ham, can't remember his name, only that at least we weren't crazy enough to spend money on that one...only for the guy to come to madrid and sleep on the bench during a game (in fairness, we were playing some lackluster football at the time)
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Post by sportsczy on Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:36 am

@tito... Baresi got relegated twice.  Not once. Are you just ignoring Batigol's relegation too?

Also keep this in mind... Sissoko was great when Ben Arfa was there and playing well.  In fact, Chelsea, Arsenal, etc. all tried to get him then but Newcastle set a price that was too high.  With the failed Cabella and Thauvin signings to replace Ben Arfa, Newcastle played Sissoko as a CAM by necessity.  He is absolutely not that.  It's like playing Matuidi or Casemiro as a CAM.

He's a B2B that, in very specific situations, can play winger.  That's it.

The only reason I don't want him on NT is that we have Lass, Pogba, Matuidi and Kante that are all better.  If we can sign Matuidi instead of Sissoko, I'm all for it... but Matuidi is headed to Juve apparently.  NT doesn't need a 5th CM of that type.  Cabaye is there for experience.  Rabiot, who brings an entirely different set of skills, is being blocked by Sissoko.  That's why I would like Sissoko out of NT.

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Post by titosantill on Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:06 am

baresi wasn't up to 23 yrs old neither of the two times he got relegated. iirc he must have been like 20 the first time and 22/23 the second. batistuta was already making a name for himself with the argentine team before the relegation, and he's a striker...its not like they got relegated and he scored 2 goals the whole season. sissoko is nowhere close to these players for this to even be some sort of comparison. my main points are these;

1. the money discussed is yet again ridiculous. you spend 35 million on stars. now i understand standards have dropped to an all time low and prices have sky rocketed, but 35 million on freakin sissoko?

2. i'm not a follower of newcastle, but i highly DOUBT that sissoko was putting in roy keane type performances week in week out, and his team let him down....highly DOUBT that

3. since we're flirting with relegation type players, i'm sure our scouts can find defensive midfielders on crap sides around europe who won't mind coming to madrid for less than 35 million, and much much younger than sissoko. it shouldn't be too hard to find such, after all, defensive mid isn't even his position.

4. you can't use the example of elite players who most hadn't even hit their primes yet as a reason why we could be unearthing some 'diamond in the rough' in a 26 yr old sissoko, who will be 27 when the season starts. the comparison is a major stretch even, that's like me saying giroud should go to juventus; deschamps, zidane, platini, trezeguet, thuram all had success there so giroud too may come good....those guys probably have more talent on their left pinky than olivier

5. i'm not even saying sissoko is crap, but don't make it like we are getting some kind of once in a lifetime move that we can't miss out on. we need to chill out with signing 30 million euro back ups, and if we're doing that, at least let them have done something that was of major value to their previous clubs....we broke bank for people not worth the money, broke bank for guys who ended up riding the bench; james, kaka; now even relegated teams are asking for 35 million for someone who's not even a prodigy? come on sportsczy, you of all people should know better
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Post by sportsczy on Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:39 am

I didn't say he's a once-in-a-lifetime player... far from. BUT, we have been linked to NOBODY ELSE. In fact, nobody of similar or better quality would come to Madrid to sit on the bench. He, on the other hand, will. He's also shown on NT that he a very impactful player coming off the bench.

I don't care about the money. It could be 1 billion. As long as the club can afford it, it's irrelevant to me. Better to spend the cash on players than lining the pockets of the club administrators and directors, which is what happens directly or indirectly when extra cash sits around.

Which brings me to my last concern... we all know that Flo wants to retire from Real Madrid soon. I wouldn't be at all surprised that Real Madrid start investing in and sponsoring projects that benefit the people who have supported him over the years. That's how it works. Maybe that's why we're being conservative with our transfer spending suddenly.

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Post by futbol_bill on Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:25 pm

Wow, now that's just absurd. How do you even dream up this bullshit?
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Post by sportsczy on Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:33 pm

Like nobody else had done it...  come on Bill.  It's not that there has been once incident of greasing palms with Real Madrid over the years.  There have literally been 10s of them.    In fact, most recently, the European Union had to get involved and fine Madrid for it as they got interest free loans and quasi-free land for no reason Laughing I'm sure those that did these things for Real Madrid did it for nothing Laughing


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Post by Valkyrja on Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:33 pm

Flo has at least 5 more years imo.

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Post by futbol_bill on Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:17 pm

Sports, in regard to that land and even loan, you need to look at the economical impact of that before being so critical. The club brings into Madrid each year millions of dollars of revenues and the city is appreciative. I don't view that as corruption at all.

You like to refer to USA for your Sports models! tell me how many teams have built their own stadiums or arenas? In almost all cases, it is the city or state that builds them or enhances them, sometimes even giving favourable lease back deals. and some teams, even move to another city (that will pay) when current city won't provide a bigger stadium or if lease deal is not favourable enough.

It just seems that when you don't get your own way (or agenda), you just go on inventing these absurities!
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Post by sportsczy on Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:34 pm

The sports teams in the US want nothing more but to own their stadiums...  but it's a major source of income to the city and they don't want to sell the stadium/land to teams.  That's the issue.  The cities do not modernize the stadiums and the sports owners won't invest in modernizing something they don't own...  hence you have clubs that change cities.

That is changing, however, as most stadiums are now becoming private.  In Los Angeles, for example, the Staples Center is owned by AEG and the new NFL sports complex for the Rams is owned by Kroenke, the Rams owner.  Even the Coliseum was master-leased to the University of Southern California (the university is going to spend 400-500 million on renovations).  The only public facility is the Rose Bowl... but UCLA is broke so they don't have a choice but to stay there.  Can't move a university either lol.  But i would bet they share the Rams' stadium once its built.

The owners couldn't do anything before because something like a stadium required both city approval and community approval... it was a lost cause.  Not anymore.  Things have changed.

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Post by titosantill on Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:53 pm

all of a sudden you don't care if we spend a billion? i recall you complaining about how expensive andre gomes was going to be. even rightly  highlighting him not being as good as modric nor kroos who both went for 30 million. but now 35 million for sissoko is reasonable? because he's french or what? its 30 million less than gomes, but he's older, also probably won't start, coming off the back of probably a not so stellar season (Same to with gomes last season, didn't see anything special for him to be worth 60). we may not be linked to anyone yet, but a move for sissoko seems quite a lazy approach....just my 2 cents
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Post by sportsczy on Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:21 pm

50 million for a Portugal NT sub who rarely played compared to 35 million for a player who started the final for France NT.... and France has 100x more midfield talent than Portugal.

i don't even like Sissoko very much lol. But, in the absence of signing ANYONE, I'd rather take someone over nothing.

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Post by FennecFox7 on Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:13 pm

Sissoko is not better then Andre Gomes, he has a couple good euro games, and?

I'm tired of your French bias dude, it wasn't this bad before but you need to learn to take the foot off the gas pedal and admit you're wrong. You're a good poster but saying things like sissoko is worth 35m.. Please Laughing
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Post by sportsczy on Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:42 pm

Sissoko has been great in every single NT game that he played in... all of them since 2012 actually.  Remember he got us the draw away v Spain with his play in WC qualifying.  That's the reason he's not getting heat at all for being on NT in France.  It's like Valbuena used to be.  You can't argue against him because he doesn't give you reason to. It bothered me more with Valbuena because he was actually blocking guys like Martial, Payet and Coman. Don't have that YET against Sissoko.

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Post by Adit on Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:34 pm

What championship scrubs does with NT is irrelevant as many scrubs have punched above their weight in NT tournaments.

As far as club performance is regarded sissoko is sheet of highest order if the resident toon is to be believed.

France have so much midfield talent that they plays with SISSOKO and big game flop MATIUDI in their home soil euro final lol.

Infact their best deep lying playmaker is probably Cabaye. Lmao. France have few DMs and bunch of physical box to box. No vereity.

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Post by FennecFox7 on Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:46 pm

Okay but there are much better options then moussa and you keep harping on like 35m is a good price. No. It's not. We can pursue other midfielders. and I'm guessing we will, we still have a month on the transfer window

If we don't it's clear zidane trusts asensio and kovacic
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Post by futbol_bill on Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:14 pm

We are not missing a midfielder. We have 6 guys for a 3 man mid. Casemiro, Modric, Kroos, Kovacic, James and Isco. Obviously with Zidane speaking out about James and Isco, he is counting on them contributing this year. The problem is two fold IMO

1. Counting on both James and Isco to somehow become relevant and contributors is risky. To do this, I suspect that Zidane will somehow incorporate AMs into schemes or James will be viewed as a forward (as is Asensio by the way) and Isco has to become that CM that can provide the verticality that has been described as our deficiency in midfield.

2. Counting on Kroos or Modric to play DLM when Casemiro not available. The option is to promote Marcos Llorente. Hala has been saying this for months and it is looking like there is a possibility of it. The squad numbers allow it, but this player will not make the bench for a lot of games. The other possibility is the club is once again trolling Bayern for Alaba. Reported Bayern want 85M and we are willing to pay 60M. If true that's much better than last time in terms of Bayern's acceptance. He would solve all of our problems at both LB as well as midfield, however I believe Kovacic would need to go (likely a loan) if that ever happened.
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Post by sportsczy on Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:31 pm

@FennecFox7 wrote:Okay but there are much better options then moussa and you keep harping on like 35m is a good price. No. It's not. We can pursue other midfielders. and I'm guessing we will, we still have a month on the transfer window

If we don't it's clear zidane trusts asensio and kovacic

We tried Matuidi. He wants to be guaranteed to be a regular. The problem is that there is better of course... but better and be satisfied to come off the bench? Not many. That's my point.

And the market is crazy. Lemina, who sucks donkey, is being sold for 23 mil to Schalke by Juve. Zaza, who is hot steaming pile of cow dung, is being offered 25 mil by Wolfsburg.

The market is way beyond what we may feel is "reasonable".

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Post by sportsczy on Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:23 am

http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualites/Moussa-sissoko-l-interet-du-real-madrid-c-est-flatteur/713586

Sissoko confirms Real Madrid interest... and Dortmund's as well. He does say that you cannot refuse Real Madrid. Either he's giving lip service or there's something there.

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Post by Kaladin on Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:09 am

Isco is for sale? (Not that i believe we can even touch him lol)

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Post by Valkyrja on Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:13 am

Imagine us giving up on Kovacic for that scrub Laughing

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Post by Turok_TTZ on Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:32 pm

It seems Pogba is no longer an option. oh well.

Are Real Madrid done for the summer transfer window?

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Post by sportsczy on Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:02 am

Some details coming out on the Pogba to Man U transfer... he refused the personal terms that Real Madrid offered him.  We were willing to pay the transfer fee, but not he compensation package.  We were apparently quite arrogant in our discussions with Raiola and Pogba told Raiola to cut the cord when he was told about it.

Mourinho played a big part too...  he represented how he was going to be used with Man U and also explained the limitations he would would face with Ronaldo on his side of the pitch at Real Madrid.  Basically told him he could never completely develop in Real Madrid's environment.  Negative recruiting.

Finally, Zidane couldn't make the pitch he wanted to Pogba because Flo and Zidane are at odds over who to sign according to France Football.  Even after Pogba, Flo wants Sissoko while Zidane wants Matic.  

This is all according the French media.

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Post by Turok_TTZ on Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:10 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Some details coming out on the Pogba to Man U transfer... he refused the personal terms that Real Madrid offered him.  We were willing to pay the transfer fee, but not he compensation package.  We were apparently quite arrogant in our discussions with Raiola and Pogba told Raiola to cut the cord when he was told about it.

Mourinho played a big part too...  he represented how he was going to be used with Man U and also explained the limitations he would would face with Ronaldo on his side of the pitch at Real Madrid.  Basically told him he could never completely develop in Real Madrid's environment.  Negative recruiting.

Finally, Zidane couldn't make the pitch he wanted to Pogba because Flo and Zidane are at odds over who to sign according to France Football.  Even after Pogba, Flo wants Sissoko while Zidane wants Matic.  

This is all according the French media.

Something about the bolded is fishy... Shouldn't it be the other way around? Raiola is a snake.

In any case, told ya sports. Some years ago I said we will never get pogba. I still feel the same as back then.
He strikes me more as a barca kind of guy anyways. and I doubt Barca would go after him now that he is at manutd. the fee they would demand would be astronomical after a few years...
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