July 2001

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Post by Luca Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:57 pm

S wrote:I've kept hearing this 'reinvest Pogba money' for like three years now. When the time comes we'll eventually do it but after just having started a new cycle last year, we're not going to give up our prized asset just to make dozens of changes again. That's not how this management operates. As Luca said, this side is on the cusp of challenging for the CL and it simply won't happen if we sell one of our best players just to get a bunch of downgrades as a result of this massively inflated market. This is why the 2001 scenario doesn't apply here.

Wonder when I'm going to hear 'reinvest Dybala money' hmm


Not to mention, the whole reinvest the money argument doesn't hold true. Juventus has been completing moves each and every single summer without selling major parts with the exception of Vidal (who wanted to leave).

If Pogba leaves, we know the money will be reinvested but we can look at it in the simplest terms:

Perceived scenario:
Juventus' bank account: $0
Pogba's worth: 100M
Juventus' transfer targets needed to complete the team: 100M (wow, how perfect)

Actual scenario:
Juventus' bank account: 100M
Pogba's worth: 100M
Juventus' transfers targets needed to complete the team: 50M

We're not a broke club, nor are we a selling club. On the market, the only team that rivals us is Atletico Madrid in terms of "smart" signings (in my opinion).

When it's about fielding the best 11 players, certainly it includes Pogba. And all this goes out the window if he comes out and says its time to go, and if he does, we'll adjust like we always have. But jumping to sell him and turning our backs on Paul based on the speculation isn't something I'll endorse because it isn't a needed sacrifice.

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Post by LeBéninois Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:12 pm

It's not so much about Juve wanting or not wanting to sell Pogba rather than Pogba wanting to leave. I he stays this summer then he'll stay until summer 2018 at least .
Now only Bayern Barca and Real are equal or an upgrade to Juve imo even if EPL clubs have got a lot of money.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:53 am

His wages double if he goes to EPL... 300k pounds a week reportedly. He makes half that at Juve.
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Post by lucianomoggi Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:14 am

sportsczy wrote:His wages double if he goes to EPL... 300k pounds a week reportedly. He makes half that at Juve.


that is a good reason for him to want out, and he wants out, which I respect that, but he wants out so he should go

it is a good reason why he talks on a media about Messi, Zidane, and more he initiates speculations on purpose, he could stop the speculations if he wanted but that is not what he wants

if he wants to go he should go, because I don't really like to have on a team players that have one foot at JUVENTUS the other somewhere else it can also effect negatively the mindset of the other players , and keeps making JUVENTUS look small , which I am not comfortable with that , he should better go and we keep players that wants to stay here and make JUVENTUS look a great club like DEL PIERO and NEDVED

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Post by Hapless_Hans Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:19 am

Luca wrote:
Marchisio will return, Khedira will miss some games but when all healthy, you have Pogba, Khedira, Marchisio and Pogba for 3 starting roles. That's 4 top midfielders, for 3 roles with suitable back ups. I don't see anything wrong with that.


There's nothing wrong with that at all, on the contrary if you think that Pjanic is joining too that's so stacked that you could even afford to sell one Pogba.

For that money you can easily afford to bring in Thuram and Nedved. You'll be fine.
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Post by S Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:50 pm

Juventus have told Mino Raiola that they have no intention of selling Pogba. #SkyItalia
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Post by Andrew Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:01 pm

Surag, you know that he is leaving right?

You do know it, right?

Right? Right?

You know it yet?

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Post by Andrew Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:02 pm

Definitely off to Yanited.

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Post by sportsczy Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:25 pm

According to Sky Italia, Juve have bought every player under the sun too and are about to sign Messi and Ronaldo this summer...  that's how reliable Italian media is other than Di Marzio.

I've also heard that there are financial ramifications to Pogba asking to leave as opposed to Juve selling him.  I'm sure the greedy pig that Raiola is would try and get Juve to sell rather than getting to the point where Pogba has to ask to leave...
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Post by salmano9 Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:30 pm

I am concerned about the midfield tbh... If Pogba leaves we will only be left with Pjanic at the start of the season as a stable and trust-able option. Marchisio (and probably khedira) are out injured or struggling for fitness. What will happen to our midfield will be a bigger mystery if Pogba leaves. I hope he doesn't, because we do not need the money. Sell Asamoah Pereyra an receive 20-25m from their sales. We are doing well with Pogba and are not that needy to sell...
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Post by Hapless_Hans Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:30 pm

Di Marzio and his collaborators work for Sky Italia too, no?
Sky Italia surely more legit than its English counterpart and most of all than the shambolic rag that L'Equipe has become with regards to transfers.
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Post by salmano9 Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:38 pm

Regarding Pogba to United, I think that it is just fantasy. According to him, he would never return back to united.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:18 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Di Marzio and his collaborators work for Sky Italia too, no?
Sky Italia surely more legit than its English counterpart and most of all than the shambolic rag that L'Equipe has become with regards to transfers.

Only Di Marzio is reliable at Sky Italia.  The rest are clowns.  It's like Marca where there are only certain reporters that are reliable.

It's different at l'Equipe.  They don't disclose the reporter whose source is used.  They just say "info de l'Equipe".

And I don't consider the Telegraph and the Manchester Evening News as unreliable for Man U info... MEN has been pretty consistent with the story that Man U are offering a fortune but Pogba's preferred destination is Madrid.
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Post by Andrew Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:52 pm

What I don't get is why would John Elkann himself come out to say that Pogba isn't for sale only to sell him a month later ? and if everyone is so confident that Pogba wants to go elsewhere for a better contract, then again why would Elkann, who rarely makes comments about players would say such a thing ?

Why the frak are these English/French sources more reliable than the owner of Exor himself ? It really baffles my mind scratch

and please don't tell me it's what United/Real or the player wants that will happen and that Juventus has no say. Laughing

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Post by sportsczy Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:56 pm

If Pogba asks to leave, Juve has very little say.  However, it would cost Raiola.  Typically, the agent forfeits some of his fee if his client asks to leave while he gets his full fee if the club is the one who leads the sale...  knowing Raiola, I am sure he'd rather Juve trigger it.

Game of chicken by all parties involved.  In terms of PR, Juve will always say that they had no intention of selling.
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Post by Luca Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:02 pm

I think people are preying on the fact that Pogba is focused on the Euro and not discussing his club future.

Rails, is doing his job by searching for the best offers for his client, for which they both profit.

The media is relying on speculation at best, for which there is no real defence because Pogba will not speak to these events until after the Euro.

In about a week, we will know what's going on. Him leaving is inevitable. If not this summer, next summer or the one after. I hope Juventus retains him for one more season at least because the team is set up nicely with him in it.

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Post by Andrew Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:02 pm

Sure, in terms of PR though John Elkann would never makes such a statement. He'd let Marotta do it.

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Post by Andrew Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:05 pm

Luca wrote:I think people are preying on the fact that Pogba is focused on the Euro and not discussing his club future.

Rails, is doing his job by searching for the best offers for his client, for which they both profit.

The media is relying on speculation at best, for which there is no real defence because Pogba will not speak to these events until after the Euro.

In about a week, we will know what's going on. Him leaving is inevitable. If not this summer, next summer or the one after. I hope Juventus retains him for one more season at least because the team is set up nicely with him in it.
The only player that I'd be ok with to replace Pogba would be Verratti and he's pretty much untouchable. Which players we would get even with a shitload of money and they'd be an upgrade escapes my mind.

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Post by Hapless_Hans Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:59 pm

sportsczy wrote:If Pogba asks to leave, Juve has very little say.  However, it would cost Raiola.  Typically, the agent forfeits some of his fee if his client asks to leave while he gets his full fee if the club is the one who leads the sale...  knowing Raiola, I am sure he'd rather Juve trigger it.

Game of chicken by all parties involved.  In terms of PR, Juve will always say that they had no intention of selling.


That's all fine and well, sports, but let's be real here.
The fact is you've been selling Pogba, to PSG, to Barca, to Real, for the past 3 summers.
Guess what? He's still at Juve.
Now sure, he probalby won't be at Juve forever, and maybe even leave this summer.

But if we're honest with each other you know as much about whether Pogba will go or not, and where, as I do.
Which is *bleep* all. Nada. Rien. Zero.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:16 pm

Hans...  don't listen to what the other posters say like a monkey.  Actually go to the source.

I said over the past 2 summers that Pogba would leave under certain circumstance.  In 2014, i said he would leave if Juve didn't increase his wages.  The amount of the increase was significant but not outside of the norm at the time since both Vidal and Pirlo were at that amount.  And, he would likely not leave due to the WC until after WC2014.  In October 2014, he got his new contract with his wages being about equal to Vidal's....  In the summer of 2015, his wages weren't that far off...  but PSG made a massive offer + he wanted to go to Barca or Madrid.  Barca couldn't sign him due to the transfer ban and Madrid weren't ready to spend the 80-100 mil needed.  He didn't want to go to PSG and Ligue 1.  So he stayed put.  I was surprised that he didn't take the money at PSG...  but i understand that he wanted to play in a bigger league.

Fast forward to this summer...  his wages are again significantly off what he's worth (he keeps getting better and more marketable).  The only way Juve keep him (again) is to redo his wages close to market.  That market is 300k pounds per week.  That is WAAAAAAAAY more than anyone makes in Serie A.  So this is unlikely.  Also, Madrid is showing interest.

Nothing is static or 100%.  It's mostly common sense.  Like most professionals in any field, Pogba looks at pros and cons.   Money is the most significant aspect with the ambition of the company he's going to work for a close second.  Is Juve and Serie A's ambition more than Man U's or Madrid's?  I don't think so.  Maybe Pogba thinks so.  How much money would he be leaving on the table? Since neither he nor his agent are stupid, one can reasonably expect that he will choose logically.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:20 pm

300k pounds per week? that's 18m € per year lol.

You really think anyone besides maybe Man United will pay that? Not even Real will pay that, that's not "close to market"...

If he wants to join a top club with CL football, he'll have to accept lower wages than this ridiculous nonsense.
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Post by rincon Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:25 pm

Elkan: We dont wanna sell Pogba
Angelli: We dont wanna sell Pogba
Marotta: We dont wanna sell Pogba
Allegri: We dont wanna sell Pogba
Pogba: (at the euros)

sportsczy: Pogba was sold 4 years ago you just haven't noticed.

Laughing

Will he stay? will he go to Madrid/United/Newcastle? maybe, in football you never know, more surprising things have happened. What is certain is no one knows the figures, the details, the thoughts and all the meetings.

Pogba has not once said anything about wanting to leave Juve. Never. From what fans can see he loves it here. Does that mean that he will stay forever? probably no, he has unlimited ambition and will most likely wanna triumph everywhere. When/if will that happen? only Pogba knows.
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Post by Luca Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:34 pm

Well I mean the good thing about always predicting he will leave is eventually he will and thus vindicate all the predictions at once Laughing

For example (a pattern of reasoning FAR too common here):
Italy won't make it out of the group
Italy won't beat Belgium
Italy can't beat Spain
Italy won't beat Germany- see I told you they wouldn't (let's ignore predictions 1-3 because the only shot that matters is the one that goes in)

Character deficiencies

I always love reading the Pogba expert opinions, it's like people are best friends with Paul and know exactly what he's thinking, it must be nice having a friend like Paul

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Post by sportsczy Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:35 pm

Pogba hasn't said it because, if players ask to leave, it's not financially beneficial to them and it's bad PR.  Just looking at it financially... the fee for the players' agent is either waived or significantly reduced.  Most top players share into that fee.  For these reasons, you very rarely see a player ask to leave publicly.  The club and the player figure it out.

The only time in recent memory where I remember a player asking to leave...  was Bale.  The Spurs kept saying "he's not for sale" and the deadline was approaching.  Finally, Bale started sitting out practice due to an "injury".  Then of course, Bale was sold to Madrid.  Happened during the last week of the mercato as I recall.  He showed up to preseason very late.  The Spurs were trying to squeeze every penny out of Madrid and they did in fact.

I'm not saying Pogba will 100% leave.  I'm saying that, unless Juve give him a significant raise, it is logical to assume he will.

@Hans...  Bale makes 19 mil.  Ronaldo 21 mil.  Bale is renegotiating and will likely equal or surpass Ronaldo.  Kroos makes 12 mil.  Pogba is asking Madrid for 13-15 mil from what i read.  Man U is throwing huge numbers at him so he's enticed to come there.

Pogba makes 4.5 mil at Juve... just as FYI.
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Post by rincon Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:50 pm

Will he leave if we don't give him a raise? we don't know.
Will he leave if we do offer him a raise? we don't know.
Will he we offer him a raise? we don't know.

Here is something that makes more sense than all that nonsense though. The club directors have stated that we don't want to sell him repeatedly and that he is not on the market, so maybe, just maybe, the people that actually matter know something we don't?

Random journalist from a tabloid in england/spain vs the transfer directors and owners of juventus? hmm who is more reliable?

Come back when there is 1 reliable source on a move happening. Not just fans speculating.

If Bale doesn't get a raise he will leave Madrid for United
^there you go, that holds just as much water as any of your arguments, it is logical to assume he will
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Post by S Tue Jul 05, 2016 6:21 pm

Lmao he'll never stop. Oh and i did notice him posting exaggerated wage figures to support his relentless agenda. Kroos earning 12M rofl Yeah, should stop taking this dude seriously.

He'd probably celebrate Pogba leaving like a CL win Laughing That's the level of obsession he's gotten into.

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