The Three Lions

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Post by Jay29 on Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:29 am

The guy in charge of signing the new manager did say he "wasn't a football expert" rofl

Allardyce was endorced by Ferguson apparently, who we all know only endorses the very best managers.

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Post by Art Morte on Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:36 am

Yet Dick Advocaat has been good enough to manage the Netherlands (twice) and Russia, too. And Allardyce took over a relegation-bound and badly built Sunderland side from him and kept them up, did a better job than Advocaat. It's like some people don't want to give Allardyce - or other so-called mid-table managers - even a chance in a bigger team, just because they haven't won trophies or played super-entertaining football with the said mid-table sides.

Allardyce will do a good job as England manager if he is chosen.
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Post by rwo power on Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:17 pm

According to SSNHD, Klinsi is in talks with the English FA o_O
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:00 pm

@LeBéninois wrote:I'd bet that England FA is very competent.


Based on what exactly? they have shown nothing but incompetence for going on 20 years now.
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Post by Doc on Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:18 pm

He would do an awful job as England manager since he barely does good for any other club not named Bolton. Mind you, England's issues stem beyond managerial appointments so this is just one of the problems that need be addressed. A problem that shouldn't be made into a new problem by hiring Fat Sam.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:36 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@LeBéninois wrote:I'd bet that England FA is very competent.


Based on what exactly? they have shown nothing but incompetence for going on 20 years now.


I've read that the main guy deciding about the new manager, one of three people but apparentl the most influential of those three, is former Man United DoF (or whatever his job description was) David Gill, the right hand man of SAF. You're saying he's incompetent?

Inb4 Moyes as england manager.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:55 pm

No idea whether he is or not but the FA have shown nothing but incompetence over the last two decades.

I'm not going blindly hope and believe that's suddenly going to change and bury my head in the sand, prove it first and as of now they haven't come close.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:58 pm

So you don't even know who the actual people in your FA responsible for the manager selection are?

But here you are making posts how the choices are bound to be terrible and incompetent?

Your posts are terrible and incompetent tbh.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:02 pm

Why should i believe the CV of one man is going to change everything when they have done nothing to show that it's going to change for two decades?

Besides that one man never had to make a managerial decision lol. I'm just not a person who jumps to hope and believes without evidence to back it up, i like to see proof first before doing so and there is none.

There's a lot more evidence to suggest that they will make a bad decision than a good one.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:07 pm

Yeah you're probably right.

Just playing devil'd advocate to be honest.

However, I do belive they are doing their best and there just are no perfect solutions.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:11 pm

Oh i have no doubt they are doing their best, i just question whether they are competent or not lol.

I'll hope for the best but expect the worst as usual.
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Post by Unique on Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:14 pm

The FA should have all been sacked along with that donkey Roy. If they thought Roy was the best manager they could get then they have no business being in the job.
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Post by Art Morte on Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:08 pm

@Doc wrote: he barely does good for any other club not named Bolton.


Got West Ham promoted back to the PL plus kept Sunderland in it against all odds, yeah, doesn't do any good to any club Rolling Eyes

The level of argument in here is something else. "He's never done anything spectacular, cannot be a good manager".
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:11 pm

Against all odds lol, he only kept them up because we were even worse. He didn't do anything special in the run in really.

Also getting West Ham promoted is hardly a massive achievement with the team that went up most managers worth their salt would have done it.

He's good at making a relegation candidate solid enough to stay up but no more, don't see why we should praise him above his station.

It's no different for praising Pulis at West Brom really.
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Post by Doc on Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:16 pm

Getting West Ham promoted and keeping Sunderland in the EPL is barely anything worthy of managing a NT who actually has aspirations of winning or competing at a high level in international tournaments.

In any case, you like Sam so you'll try to see the little he has done to be something grand enough to manage England. If the FA hires him, I wish him the best and look forward to the inevitable excuses you have for him when he subsequently doesn't meet England's expectations.
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Post by Art Morte on Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:24 pm

Maybe some of you can tell me what Allardyce has done wrong in his career?

These arguments, like Mole's that "he only survived because we were even worse", I mean, come on? Just how much did Newcastle spend on players again? But oh, no, we cannot give Allardyce credit for out-performing Sunderland's big-spending neighbors, we have to slack him off for getting lucky - because of others being worse. Immaculate logic.

Pretty much every big-name manager has had a failure in their career. Just look at Mourinho, for example. Allardyce has been in the managerial game for 25 years. Tell me of his failures for a change?
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Post by Doc on Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:52 pm

I never called him a failure or thought anything he did in his career is wrong. I personally find he did quite well for himself. But other than Bolton, nothing stands out in his career that makes him seem like a reasonable option for a job that has high expectations (be it those expectations need to be tone down) which is what this discussion is all about.

Is Sam really that suitable for the England NT and from my own perspective, I don't think he is. Of course, I'm subject to being absolutely, hilariously wrong but that's how things are.
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Post by Art Morte on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:03 pm

@Doc wrote:I never called him a failure or thought anything he did in his career is wrong.

So, why do you think he doesn't deserve the chance of managing England? How many potential candidates can you name who meet this criteria of not doing anything exactly wrong in their careers?

This is exactly the best argument for his appointment, yet people choose to ignore it. The guy's been in the managerial game for twenty-five frigging years and hasn't had a failure, yet he's apparently an awful choice.


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Post by RealGunner on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:13 pm

Meh I am willing to give him a chance. Somewhat a fan of his tbh.

Although I just hope he is being given a probation period of a year or something. And not a 7 year contract.

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Post by Doc on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:22 pm

@Art Morte wrote:
@Doc wrote:I never called him a failure or thought anything he did in his career is wrong.

So, why do you think he doesn't deserve the chance of managing England?

Just to paraphrase your entire post a bit, I would be a liar if I pretend to not see the appeal in seeing Sam as an England manager and yes, on the basis on every man deserves a chance to shine, the FA can should give him a chance in the "big time".

I still stand by my own perspective and views on his potential hiring though.
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Post by Jay29 on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:23 pm

To be honest I wouldn't have minded van Gaal as manager. I know it's unrealistic because he probably hates England by now but he did prove at the Netherlands that he knew how to make a weak squad overachieve. Hell, why not Tata Martino? Took Argentina to three cup finals and just resigned. Language would be an issue but again it's proven coach at international level.

Allardyce is bang average. He'll get us through qualifying but we'll likely not do anything worthwhile at the World Cup again. For me, he does the bare minimum at his clubs but never overachieves - he doesn't make teams better than the sum of their parts. I wouldn't consider him charismatic or a great motivator either, which are very important attributes at international level.

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Post by Art Morte on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:44 pm

@Jay29 wrote:
Allardyce is bang average. He'll get us through qualifying but we'll likely not do anything worthwhile at the World Cup again. For me, he does the bare minimum at his clubs but never overachieves - he doesn't make teams better than the sum of their parts. I wouldn't consider him charismatic or a great motivator either, which are very important attributes at international level.


He just kept Sunderland quite fantastically in the PL. Why isn't anyone willing to give him credit for that? You take one look at that squad and tell me it wasn't relegation-bound. That's not the bare minimum. That's pretty frigging well done. And about charisma and motivation, you do realize that the last two England managers were Capello and Hodgson? Gracious me, what charismatic motivators...

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Post by Jay29 on Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:12 pm

Quite fantastically Laughing

Why should he get credit for just about keeping them up? He got them wins, but then actually took them closer to the relegation zone again before doing just enough in the last two months to stay up while Newcastle waited too long to get rid of McClaren. Let's not forget Sunderland spent £56mil on players as well. That's a lot of investment just to finish two poitns above the relegation zone. Sunderland had higher ambitions than just staying up.

Fantastic is what I'd call what Howe managed at Bournemouth or what Pulis did with Stoke in their first PL season.

Also, I didn't say anything about Hodgson or Capello being good motivators. That they weren't was part of the problem.




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Post by LeBéninois on Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:54 pm

England has too much problems. Sam A. is facing a real challenge . He has only less than 2 years to :

1- Create a sense of unity
2- Get the team to be tactically more astute
3- Get rid of old players ; Deal with a lot of young talents but who don't perform .

All of that while being scrutinized like he has never been. Good luck.
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Post by rwo power on Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:14 am

Maybe you need to think totally out of the box. Silvia Neid stepped down from the German Women NT. If you want someone with a really successful CV why not a coach who won the Women's World Cup plus twice the Women's Euro among several other things? :coffee:
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Post by Unique on Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:42 am

The German guys on here saying give fat Sam a try. Like they would be happy to give fat Sam a try at any football related job in Germany
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