Suarez vs R9

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Suarez or R9?

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Total Votes : 31
 
 

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Post by Robespierre Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:46 pm

Luca wrote:I think it's closer than some will admit. Suarez's numbers for Barcelona particularly exceed Ronaldo's, of course he has the advantage of playing with the best Barcelona team ever, a team that creates a lot of chances and scores even more goals. Suarez in Liverpool was also magical and obviously his personnel was nowhere near what it is today.

But for me, Ronaldo is one of the most talented players ever. In his prime, I only rate Messi above him.

The other thing you have working against you for a poll such as this is there are a number of Barcelona haters and a number of Suarez haters, while Ronaldo was somewhat unanimously liked by all, the bias alone killed this poll before it began. The other thing that killed it was Ronaldo being a better player though.


For me , not even Messi

Luca wrote:
Maybe Suarez versus Batistuta or Henry, or something along those lines would be a better discussion

Agreed

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Post by Cruijf Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:54 pm

Lucifer wrote:Hi Godon! Welcome mate. Hope to see more of you Thumbs up
Regarding the discussion, u see this forum was started by the Buddhist monk who is now right hand of left of dalai lama's assistant. Hence we believe in the Buddhist principle that everything is questionable and nothing is absolute and often participate in discussion which may seem undiscussable as a practice to sharpen our debating skills. So do not get surprised when u come across topics such as this. Thnx also welcome once more.


Ffs rofl
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Post by Bankz Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:16 pm

Lucifer wrote:Hi Godon! Welcome mate. Hope to see more of you Thumbs up
Regarding the discussion, u see this forum was started by the Buddhist monk who is now right hand of left of dalai lama's assistant. Hence we believe in the Buddhist principle that everything is questionable and nothing is absolute and often participate in discussion which may seem undiscussable as a practice to sharpen our debating skills. So do not get surprised when u come across topics such as this. Thnx also welcome once more.

Basically this.. hey Gordon, you simply heard it all. We even like to discuss Pele vs benzema from time to time. cheers
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Post by Kebab Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:24 pm

Suarez is successful in barca because he became close friends with messi. its simple as that. When in his career Messi shared his penalties? Never. When in his career Messi give his goalscoring position to another player? Never. When Messi became unselfish and decided to pass the ball instead scoring himself? Only last 2 seasons.
It all happened with Suarez. At first he was unsuccessful at right wing position. Not a Neymar quality to play there. A team like Barca will only be satisfied if Neymar and Messi level players play in wings. Suarez was not that level. They decided to put him in center to score goals. Its because Messi grew up and understood that he is needs to change his position to be unpredictable and use his diagonal passes. They did it and they won CL, so it worked and friendship grew even more

Now lets talk about good sides of Suarez. Its all happened because of Suarez himself. because of his strong mentality and character.He was the protection. He is the guy we often see in A.Madrid team. He dives, cheats, beats others. When a weak humble guy connects with such a bad guy it automatically generates friendship. Even in real life its the same.
If you remember Messi's another best friend was Pinto who attacked opponents from the bench. He also was the "bad" guy. For my prediction if Messi plays in Madrid his best friend will be Pepe

Anyway Suarez is also very unselfish and caring. Never goes for glory always moves for his team mates, celebrates his team mates goals like he scored himself

He is not messi level. I assure you if he was that level messi would get threatened and friendship would end. Jealousy would end it. You can see sometimes there is a little jealousy between neymar and messi. but never with suarez. Because he is level below both neymar and messi

It doesnt mean Suarez is an average player. being worse than Messi and Neymar is not such a bad thing. Because I consider them GOATS.
Suarez is just a level below than GOATS. but he is not a GOAT himself
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Post by McAgger Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:51 pm

How is Suarez a level below Dishmar?

Messi I definitely agree. Messi is GOAT. There is no question about. I even said Prime R9 is the closest thing to Messi so I rate him above Suarez.

But Nerman? Laughing Take that weak ass sh!t outta here.
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Post by Kebab Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:56 pm

If you remember when Messi was injured Neymar was the best player. Not Suarez
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Post by LeBéninois Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:57 pm

Don't call me James wrote:How is Suarez a level below Dishmar?

Messi I definitely agree. Messi is GOAT. There is no question about. I even said Prime R9 is the closest thing to Messi so I rate him above Suarez.

But Nerman? Laughing Take that weak ass sh!t outta here.


Imo he meant that as a winger Neymar is better than Suarez
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Post by Lex Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:57 pm

I'm still trying to figure out whether some of the views in this thread are just for the lulzy bantz, or if it's what people actually think hmm
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Post by titosantill Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:07 pm

to be honest i'm not sure if neymar's better than suarez. neymar had a better first half to the campaign, and suarez had a better second half when neymar slowed down. two different positions, but i'm not sure neymar's the better footballer....i don't think so
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Post by Donuts Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:01 am

today, suarez is better than neymar, not even a discussion lol
look what suarez can do with a team.. he carried liverpool, he carried uruguay and he succeeded in a big team which most suggested he wouldn't

neymar is still young and very raw his form dipped drastically second half of this season.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:39 am

Problem with banter is that it becomes difficult to tell whether people are being serious or not, especially when they start throwing insults and being disrespectful to other members, members who treat everybody with respect and want to be respected as well. And eventually you end up with this type of messages:
Either join the interesting discussion thats going on or take your fake and childish ignorance back to the Madrid section.
This was directed at someone who said that R9 is clearly superior to Suarez and that it shouldn't even be an argument.

What bothers me here is not them believing that Suarez is superior to the Brazilian, they're entitled to their own opinion. After all, there are some people out there who still don't believe in evolution or global warming. No, what bothers me is this hostility and lack of respect that goes hand in hand with their speech.

I remember not too long ago there was a serious poster on GL who said that banter is driving many serious posters away. I didn't agree with that at the time, but now, I think I can relate to it. It's physically and mentally impossible for me to engage in a conversation where there's no respect and a certain degree of civility and good manners.

I apologize in advance for going off topic, but I felt I had to point his out. I think highly of GL and I don't want to see it become a fighting pit where discourtesy and banter are applauded.

In order to save the mods some trouble and prevent this conversation from getting derailed from its original course, this is going to be my last reply on this topic.


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Post by alexjanosik Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:06 am

The Demon of Carthage wrote:Problem with banter is that it becomes difficult to tell whether people are being serious or not, especially when they start throwing insults and being disrespectful to other members, members who treat everybody with respect and want to be respected as well. And eventually you end up with this type of messages:
Either join the interesting discussion thats going on or take your fake and childish ignorance back to the Madrid section.
This was directed at someone who said that R9 is clearly superior to Suarez and that it shouldn't even be an argument.

What bothers me here is not them believing that Suarez is superior to the Brazilian, they're entitled to their own opinion. After all, there are some people out there who still don't believe in evolution or global warming. No, what bothers me is this hostility and lack of respect that goes hand in hand with their speech.

I remember not too long ago there was a serious poster on GL who said that banter is driving many serious posters away. I didn't agree with that at the time, but now, I think I can relate to it. It's physically and mentally impossible for me to engage in a conversation where there's no respect and a certain degree of civility and good manners.

I apologize in advance for going off topic, but I felt I had to point his out. I think highly of GL and I don't want to see it become a fighting pit where discourtesy and banter are applauded.

In order to save the mods some trouble and prevent this conversation from getting derailed from its original course, this is going to be my last reply on this topic.




You talk about opinion and respect and then come up with this condescending post. The only solid point in your post is when you bring up global warming and that majority still think it is a sham. It is kind of similar, here. Majority thinking R9 is better without proving jack or any sort of argument except the oh so convenient he just is.
R9 is a NIKE marketing con job. Guy played in elite clubs throughout his career and has jack to show for it.
Zilch. Nada. Suarez won thrice as much being the MVP his first season in a top club.
R9's career is built on stat padding against scrubs like China, Turkey, Belgium, Costa Rica etc in the worst WC of all time, the world cup of scrubs.
Flopped in the CL, flopped at league level and for a supposed GOAT level scorer, has just one golden shoe.
Suarez has outperformed him at every single level and it is not even close.
Better at CL level, better at league level and better at NT level.

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Post by futbol Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:08 am

lmao What is this thread? One is a people's champion, the other was a Nike advertising face. Pls.

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Post by Cruijf Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:18 am

The Demon of Carthage wrote:Problem with banter is that it becomes difficult to tell whether people are being serious or not, especially when they start throwing insults and being disrespectful to other members, members who treat everybody with respect and want to be respected as well. And eventually you end up with this type of messages:
Either join the interesting discussion thats going on or take your fake and childish ignorance back to the Madrid section.
This was directed at someone who said that R9 is clearly superior to Suarez and that it shouldn't even be an argument.

What bothers me here is not them believing that Suarez is superior to the Brazilian, they're entitled to their own opinion. After all, there are some people out there who still don't believe in evolution or global warming. No, what bothers me is this hostility and lack of respect that goes hand in hand with their speech.

I remember not too long ago there was a serious poster on GL who said that banter is driving many serious posters away. I didn't agree with that at the time, but now, I think I can relate to it. It's physically and mentally impossible for me to engage in a conversation where there's no respect and a certain degree of civility and good manners.

I apologize in advance for going off topic, but I felt I had to point his out. I think highly of GL and I don't want to see it become a fighting pit where discourtesy and banter are applauded.

In order to save the mods some trouble and prevent this conversation from getting derailed from its original course, this is going to be my last reply on this topic.




This is the guy who's first post in this thread was "topics like these make me doubt free speech" Laughing

Take your superficial politeness and idiotic arrogance off your high horse and out of this thread.
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Post by S Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:32 pm

Even though i absolutely despise Ronaldo, after reading Alexjanosik's posts, it really makes me feel like defending him. Unreal bias from this guy. Some seriously shocking read here, wow.
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Post by rincon Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:50 pm

S wrote:Even though i absolutely despise Ronaldo, after reading Alexjanosik's posts, it really makes me feel like defending him. Unreal bias from this guy.


Same. Ronaldo is top 3 most hated players for me with Maradona and Busquets (just of the top of my head) but this much underrating is painful.

Saurez better than him for NT?? Ronaldo is the second all time top scorer in world cups. Won the world cup, got second place in another, won the copa america twice. Was top scorer for both copa and WC, etc.

Never mind the ballon d'ors and the endless "best player awards" he collected.
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Post by alexjanosik Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:10 pm

Why not bring actual arguments then?
I have compared technical aspects, tactical aspects, versatlity, ability to raise the level of others, CL performance, their scoring records, league performance, NT performance. Nobody has actually been able to dispute what I have said.

One was a NIKE and FIFA posterboy. The other is neither a marketing phenomenon nor a FIFA poster boy. Quite the contrary.
FIFA hates him. The whole of Africa hates him. England and the English media hate him(and this point is really important).
The Anglo Saxon media has huge influence over public perception.
Suarez never stands a chance under such circumstances even among supposed knowledgeable posters.
He has outperformed Messi over a 3 year period and been the best player on the planet over that period and I am supposed to believe that a Nike marketing phenom who won jack in his career despite playing on stacked teams throughout his career is light years ahead.
And unlike the majority who just saw R9 on youtube, I saw him week in week out.

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Post by Valkyrja Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:40 pm

how the hell is Suarez' NT career better than R9's ?
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Post by LeBéninois Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:47 pm

Why some of you guys despise Ronaldo ? I'm curious.

About who's better everyone is entitled to his opinion. Both are great. What I don't like is that , in order to prove their point some of you go as far as belitlling great achievements . For instance ( alex) :

R9's career is built on stat padding against scrubs like China, Turkey, Belgium, Costa Rica etc in the worst WC of all time, the world cup of scrubs.

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Post by alexjanosik Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:18 pm

Suarez doesnt have the luxury of playing with Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Romario, Cafu, Carlos etc.
Given the tools he has, he has achieved more. Crucial in Uruguay reaching the SF in 2010. MVP in CA 11. Played splendidly in WC qualifying. Came back from injury to knock England out of WC 2014.
Surely team has to be taken into consideration while comparing their NT careers.
Still, I can maybe give R9 a very tiny edge at NT. But that still leaves all the other points I mentioned.

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Post by alexjanosik Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:21 pm

LeBéninois wrote:Why some of you guys despise Ronaldo ? I'm curious.

About who's better everyone is entitled to his opinion. Both are great. What I don't like is that , in order to prove their point some of you go as far as belitlling great achievements . For instance ( alex) :

R9's career is built on stat padding against scrubs like China, Turkey, Belgium, Costa Rica etc in the worst WC of all time, the world cup of scrubs.



That WC is universally regarded as a very poor and weak WC. I may have exaggerated a bit but the point still stands. Arguably the weakest German team of all time reached the final. Overall the teams were just poor or the victim of poor refereeing decisions(Spain and Italy were good teams but were screwed over).
Brazil played a lot of scrubs and that has to be taken into context.

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Post by Valkyrja Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:26 pm

02 isn't even R9's best WC outing. In 98 he had had a 86 Maradona like performance, much better than in 02, when he was also great. Shame about the final.
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Post by LeBéninois Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:32 pm

You have a point but you don't need to belittle Ronaldo's achievements to proove your point . You actually enough arguments to proove how great Suarez is. Ronaldo had more talent than suarez imo. Between a prime Ronaldo or a prime Luis I'd go with the former. that being said in terms of achievements, Suarez is on his way to surpass Ronaldo. He won't reach Ronaldo's stardom because of many reasons ( Marketing, his attitude/ reputation, Cr7 and Messi already being there etc .. ). That being said despite being a huge Ronaldo fan I can honestly say that despite being less talended than R9, Suarez has achieved more.
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Post by titosantill Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:08 pm

nothing was poor and weak about world cup 02. 2010 was poor, 90 was ugly. 02 was good and quite interesting. i don't know who "universally" regarded it as poor. brazil had a great team but we only call it a great team in hindsight. they were not favorites to win, and got lucky to even qualify in the first place (some conspiracy theorists claim fifa helped them qualify...for those who listen to conspiracies). they didn't exactly meet the same opponents in 98, but those were tough games in the knockouts, except maybe germany....who were not great and missed ballack.

that was a very entertaining world cup. "give me a break world cup of scrubs" i still don't get what makes suarez a more intelligent player, these vague points prove nothing. he's better at heading the ball, and probably more acrobatic. technique and those other concepts you brought up? forget it. suarez vs david villa is a more reasonable comparison
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Post by LeBéninois Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:10 pm

Valkyrja wrote:02 isn't even R9's best WC outing. In 98 he had had a 86 Maradona like performance, much better than in 02, when he was also great. Shame about the final.


True.
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Post by S Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:12 pm

Suarez 'crucial' in Uruguay reaching the semis rofl

Agree. That handball was something really special (:

Basically his arguments are based on belittling Ronaldo's achievements so he could big up Suarez' career achievements.

Oh and the argument about Suarez taking a mediocre Liverpool to 2nd place is lousy and redundant at the same time. Basically Ronaldo is being blamed for playing for stacked teams Laughing Absolutely hate to defend Inter but don't tell me their team was so stacked that it was a huge failure to win anything with them. They were competing against a stacked Roma, Lazio, Juventus at the time. He won a UEFA cup with them. Inter bottled a league title on the last day in 2002 and Serie A back then was by far the strongest league unlike the overhyped Premier league which continues to get worse every year. I also need to mention just how poor the top teams in EPL were that year.

On an NT level, he wipes the floor with Suarez. How is this a debate is beyond me. The stacked team argument is so flawed its incredible. How convenient of you to ignore his hattrick in the world cup final. I dint want to respond in this thread until i read your ridiculous posts.


On topic : I do think its a good comparison. Both are great players. Suarez is an amazing competitor, reason why he's got this far but Ronaldo is simply better. Both in ability and career wise thus far.

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