EURO 2016 France - R16 - Italy Vs Spain

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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:36 am

Spain have been frauds since 2009 imho.

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Post by alexjanosik Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:07 am

From dominating midfield after midfield for years on end to curb stomping on PPirlo's Italy in the Euro 2012 final to getting dominated by this Italy.
The Spain era was all about the Xavi Hernandez era. He dominates, Spain dominates. He retires, Spain go back to mediocrity.
Bow down to the GOAT midfielder.

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Post by breva Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:24 am

Until 2008, Spain had never beaten Italy in a competitive match for 88 years. They had only won against Italy in the 1920 Olympics. In 2008, with both Gattuso and Pirlo (the main midfield players) ineligible for too many yellow cards, Spain was only able to beat Italy on penalties.

We are talking about less than a decade of Spanish supremacy over Italy. Now we are back to normal even with this less talented, historically speaking, Italian national team.

Spain had one of the best short runs ever, but Italy is Italy, their run has been longer than Brazil's. It started when they won their first world cup in 1934.
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Post by Luca Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:35 am

@breva wrote:Until 2008, Spain had never beaten Italy in a competitive match for 88 years. They had only won against Italy in the 1920 Olympics. In 2008, with both Gattuso and Pirlo (the main midfield players) ineligible for too many yellow cards, Spain was only able to beat Italy on penalties.

We are talking about less than a decade of Spanish supremacy over Italy. Now we are back to normal even with this less talented, historically speaking, Italian national team.

Spain had one of the best short runs ever, but Italy is Italy, their run has been longer than Brazil's. It started when they won their first world cup in 1934.


88 years, that's the number I was looking for earlier in this thread.

Well put, my man

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Post by S Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:23 pm

Yes it should be the other way round.

Italy always beat Spain except for a brief period where Spain's greatest generation beat one of the weakest Italian generations.

Thumbs up
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Post by titosantill Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:28 pm

@S wrote:Yes it should be the other way round.

Italy always beat Spain except for a brief period where Spain's greatest generation beat one of the weakest Italian generations.

Thumbs up


This...
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Post by Doc Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:58 pm

I really agreed and even thumbs up S's post but Italy did lose a final 4-0 to Spain. That pretty much nullifies 88 years of not losing to the Spaniards in the grandest way.

Time to go on another 88 year run imo.
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Post by futbol_bill Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:46 pm

Italy along with Germany and Brasil have been top top teams forever. England had a run, years ago, Netherlands have been good several times and France has had a couple of runs, Argentina have been close several times. Spain has had a decade long run.

But the consistency is alone with Italy, Germany and Brasil. Hell, even a German friend of mine says he is worried about this Saturday as as he puts it, Italy always gives Germany a hard time.

So I say this Italian team, without many name players is a much superior team than most have given it credit for. At the same time, Spain was overrated, including by myself (biased that I am), but in reality it is a new team trying to recover the form of 4 years ago. It's a case were the only survivors of the previous generation are Iniesta, who IMO had a great tournament, but has likely played in his last tournament, Ramos and Pique, who are liabilities at this stage and sad part is we have no viable replacements. Then we have the backup players from previous teams, Silva, Cesc, Pedro not anywhere close to the top of their games and in at least two of these cases, they probably should not be on team. I do feel that there is talent in the younger generation, but they need time to develop.

My expectation is that we will continue to be a top team i.e capable of getting to QF or even SF, but not able to win a tournament in the foreseeable future.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:15 pm

Where has De Scilgio been all this time ? He made Juandran look useless yesterday
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:20 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:Where has De Scilgio been all this time ? He made Juandran look useless yesterday


Surely as much as anyone you should know his performance yesterday isn't really indicative of him in general.

There's so many international performances with standout performers who don't do nothing the following season or any season for that matter. Laughing

He needs to play great for his club too before he can be praised.
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Post by Luca Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:20 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:Where has De Scilgio been all this time ? He made Juandran look useless yesterday


Milan's bench mainly, struggled with some injuries as well. He's only 23. He's playing at an excellent level. He had the game of his life in the Coppa Italia final against Juventus, probably to cement his place with the national team for this Euro.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:21 pm

@S wrote:Spain are shit Mole. Couldnt care less now. Italia :bow:

Turns out my hype wasn't any worse than your Brazil hype Laughing So happy to be wrong :bow:


At least i have the excuse that Brazil were missing key players :coffee:

I still believe in Ganso and co tbh.
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Post by rincon Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:34 pm

@Luca wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:Where has De Scilgio been all this time ? He made Juandran look useless yesterday


Milan's bench mainly, struggled with some injuries as well. He's only 23. He's playing at an excellent level. He had the game of his life in the Coppa Italia final against Juventus, probably to cement his place with the national team for this Euro.


De Sciglio has been playing at a great level since the final. I wasn't even keen on taking him, less so starting him. I had Antonelli and Darmian ahead of him, but since then he displaced Antonelli and benched Darmian. He is looking like the "promise" he was 2 years ago.

I firmly believe that Milan right now is toxic for a lot of players (no offense Milan fans), same thing with Saponara. If De Sciglio leaves he will shine, or Milan find stability.
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Post by breva Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:55 pm

@Doc wrote:I really agreed and even thumbs up S's post but Italy did lose a final 4-0 to Spain. That pretty much nullifies 88 years of not losing to the Spaniards in the grandest way.

Time to go on another 88 year run imo.


Not probable in this day and age. Teams are much closer in quality and capability than back then.
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Post by Luca Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:00 pm

@rincon wrote:
@Luca wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:Where has De Scilgio been all this time ? He made Juandran look useless yesterday


Milan's bench mainly, struggled with some injuries as well. He's only 23. He's playing at an excellent level. He had the game of his life in the Coppa Italia final against Juventus, probably to cement his place with the national team for this Euro.


De Sciglio has been playing at a great level since the final. I wasn't even keen on taking him, less so starting him. I had Antonelli and Darmian ahead of him, but since then he displaced Antonelli and benched Darmian. He is looking like the "promise" he was 2 years ago.

I firmly believe that Milan right now is toxic for a lot of players (no offense Milan fans), same thing with Saponara. If De Sciglio leaves he will shine, or Milan find stability.


I hope its to Juventus if Lichtsteiner leaves, could see him getting 25+ apps a year for the first 2 seasons and then be a starter once Evra and Alves leave. I'm unsure if he would accept the role, but I would welcome him Proud

(just a pipe dream right now)

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Post by Socur Toxanarosa Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:22 pm

@breva wrote:Now we are back to normal


You're not, when Conte departs you'll be mediocre again.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:00 pm

Yeah because Italy was nothing before Conte Rolling Eyes
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Post by Robespierre Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:59 pm

Not been so excited for an Italy victory , for years.
Always gorgeous to win against the Spain and besides got in a dominant way.
Regardless of the outcome Conte regave pride to Italy NT, it is not easy after the last WC.
I don't like as person , since he was Juventus captain ( and when he was player, he was even much more hateful than now IMO , and it's enough), but I 've always rated him highly as coach.
His didactic level is top.
Shame Ventura will be his replacement Laughing Not good for this pls


@Socur Toxanarosa wrote:
@breva wrote:Now we are back to normal


You're not, when Conte departs you'll be mediocre again.

What ? lol  hmm
We were even the last Euro finalist
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Post by Kaladin Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:03 pm

Just seen the other bracket rofl

Portugal or Belgium will most likely end up in the final Laughing

Italy got the hardest road with Spain>Germany>France
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Post by Socur Toxanarosa Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:40 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Yeah because Italy was nothing before Conte Rolling Eyes


They were great, but right now they don't have enough talent to be a top NT, Conte is absolutely overachieving with this team. I'd not be very optimistic about 2018 if i was Italian.
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Post by Luca Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:45 pm

@Socur Toxanarosa wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:Yeah because Italy was nothing before Conte Rolling Eyes


They were great, but right now they don't have enough talent to be a top NT, Conte is absolutely overachieving with this team. I'd not be very optimistic about 2018 if i was Italian.


Why not?
Verratti and Marchisio should be present- our two best midfielders
The wingback position is absolutely stacked
Insigne, El Sharaawy are getting experience. There are young talented defenders like Rugani and Romagnoli to play alongside Bonucci/Chiellini perhaps.
Berardi is a great talent too.

Not worried at all, I'm excited in fact

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Post by Hapless_Hans Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:54 pm

@Luca wrote:
@Socur Toxanarosa wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:Yeah because Italy was nothing before Conte Rolling Eyes


They were great, but right now they don't have enough talent to be a top NT, Conte is absolutely overachieving with this team. I'd not be very optimistic about 2018 if i was Italian.


Why not?
VERRATTI and MARCHISO should be present- our two best midfielders.
The wingback position is absolutely stacked
INSIGNE, EL SHARAAWY are getting experience. There are young talented defenders like RUGANI and ROMAGNOLI to play alongside BONUCCI/CHIELLINI perhaps.
BERARDI is a great talent too.

Not worried at all, I'm excited in fact


If you put it like that, I have to admit you have a point.
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Post by Luca Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:07 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Luca wrote:
@Socur Toxanarosa wrote:

They were great, but right now they don't have enough talent to be a top NT, Conte is absolutely overachieving with this team. I'd not be very optimistic about 2018 if i was Italian.


Why not?
VERRATTI and MARCHISO should be present- our two best midfielders.
The wingback position is absolutely stacked
INSIGNE, EL SHARAAWY are getting experience. There are young talented defenders like RUGANI and ROMAGNOLI to play alongside BONUCCI/CHIELLINI perhaps.
BERARDI is a great talent too.

Not worried at all, I'm excited in fact


If you put it like that, I have to admit you have a point.


rofl Hans, you're killing me bruh
At least wait until after Saturday and we can duel to the death like men

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Post by Socur Toxanarosa Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:09 am

@Luca wrote:Why not?
Verratti and Marchisio should be present- our two best midfielders
The wingback position is absolutely stacked
Insigne, El Sharaawy are getting experience. There are young talented defenders like Rugani and Romagnoli to play alongside Bonucci/Chiellini perhaps.
Berardi is a great talent too.

Not worried at all, I'm excited in fact


Your best players with the exception of Verratti will all be over 30 and your youngsters are not that promising, hardly world class prospects. And no top coach this time.
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Post by Luca Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:15 am

@Socur Toxanarosa wrote:
@Luca wrote:Why not?
Verratti and Marchisio should be present- our two best midfielders
The wingback position is absolutely stacked
Insigne, El Sharaawy are getting experience. There are young talented defenders like Rugani and Romagnoli to play alongside Bonucci/Chiellini perhaps.
Berardi is a great talent too.

Not worried at all, I'm excited in fact


Your best players with the exception of Verratti will all be over 30 and your youngsters are not that promising, hardly world class prospects. And no top coach this time.


To each their own brother. Two years is way too far away to discuss it in real times, for all we know Ventura won't even be the manager at that time, or he could do a really great job in qualifying.

As for the age, being over 30 is no detriment in my opinion. As for the world class prospects, can't really predict how the players will develop but if we looked at all the past world class prospects that never became world class players, I'll take my chances. I can't see a player in this currently Italy team that was a world class prospect, except for Buffon 20 years ago Proud

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Post by Socur Toxanarosa Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:33 am

@Luca wrote:To each their own brother. Two years is way too far away to discuss it in real times, for all we know Ventura won't even be the manager at that time, or he could do a really great job in qualifying.

As for the age, being over 30 is no detriment in my opinion. As for the world class prospects, can't really predict how the players will develop but if we looked at all the past world class prospects that never became world class players, I'll take my chances. I can't see a player in this currently Italy team that was a world class prospect, except for Buffon 20 years ago Proud


Fair enough, i was talking about perspective but Italy is always unpredictable anyway.
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