How much credit will Messi receive if Argentina win Copa America?

Adit wrote:
Brazil never won it because that is an nobody gives a damn cup, it has been like that for ever and it is now. You can have our u 23 players cup, the fact that that cup is valued before this fake cup is of no wonder because it's fake and invented purely out of greed and some countries agendas.

They almost always have the strongest team and they have never won it in their history. In 2012, they called up T.Silva, Hulk, and Marcelo. They had a stacked team in 2012, as well. They lost in the finals against Mexico and were made fun of. The Olympics has always been considered a blemish on Brazil's football trophy haul. Every year the Olympics roll around, the headline more often than not, is "Will Brazil finally win it?"


Why is it so hard to understand that Brazil has never won it and that they are the hosting nation? Are you going to tell me there isn't a *bleep* incentive to win it, in front of their fans??

I don't understand how this isn't a legitimate reason for them to value the Olympics over the Copa America.

Adit wrote:
Which club can block a player from playing in Euro? No one will dare to do that. But a superstar Neymar was 'blocked' by his club from playing his continents biggest cup? Give me a break. Not buying it. Especially when he is yet to sign an extension and have 3 clubs willing to pay his release clue.. Do you really believe the story that Barca blocked Neymars desire to play in his continents biggest tournament? Plssss.

Clubs aren't allowed to block players from playing with their national teams in tournaments, qualifiers, and friendlies.

However, I'm quite sure that doesn't apply to the Olympics. If they don't want to send them, they don't have to. Do you not remember the Messi situation in 2008?

Also, you're overcomplicating it. It was a mutual agreement between the Brazilian FA and Neymar. Barca didn't want Neymar to play both competitions. Neymar and the Brazilian FA chose the Olympics over the Copa. Considering that they hadn't won the competition and that they are hosting it, then I'd say they made the right choice.

Thimmy wrote:

Casciavit wrote:

Adit wrote:Depends on the credibility of the tournament. This was a u.s funded fake copa invented clearly for greed.s.a which has Brazil playing a championship eleven and their best player partying in Newark.

Brazil is hosting the event, and they have never won the football tournament before. Is that not a legitimate reason?

Isn't that just more of an incentive for them and for Neymar to try and win it, if they do take the tournament seriously?

That's why Neymar is being called-up. They ARE taking it seriously. The media, players, and fans are all saying the Olympics is the priority.

Thimmy wrote:Why would he be criticized? He's been dominating the tournament. It would be really odd for anyone to criticize him if they don't win it.

Why would he be criticized? The same way he was criticized when he lost the Copa in 2015, and WC in 2014.

"Can't carry Argentina"

"Isn't a leader"

"LOL isn't even worthy of licking Maradona's boots"

---

If he wins:

"glorified friendlies"

"Shows up in this fodder tournament"

"WC is where it's at"

"Where was he last year and 2 years ago"

Brazil doesn't give a damn about the cup... and yet Dunga was fired over losing it? Sounds like not caring to me

Everybody talking about teams not caring are kidding themselves.

Been a great tournament with a lot of passion from all teams

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Brazil doesn't give a damn about the cup... and yet Dunga was fired over losing it? Sounds like not caring to me

4 players who were playing in the WC qualifications round in March, didn't play in the CA.

Neymar, Douglas Costa, Fernandinho, and Luiz Gustavo.

Neymar's going to play in the Olympics.

Fernandinho might be called up for the Olympics.

Douglas Costa got injured.

Luiz Gustavo dropped out for "personal reasons"

Apart from those 4, they played the same team they usually do.

Casciavit wrote:

Adit wrote:
Brazil never won it because that is an nobody gives a damn cup, it has been like that for ever and it is now. You can have our u 23 players cup, the fact that that cup is valued before this fake cup is of no wonder because it's fake and invented purely out of greed and some countries agendas.

They almost always have the strongest team and they have never won it in their history. In 2012, they called up T.Silva, Hulk, and Marcelo. They had a stacked team in 2012, as well. They lost in the finals against Mexico and were made fun of. The Olympics has always been considered a blemish on Brazil's football trophy haul. Every year the Olympics roll around, the headline more often than not, is "Will Brazil finally win it?"


Why is it so hard to understand that Brazil has never won it and that they are the hosting nation? Are you going to tell me there isn't a *bleep* incentive to win it, in front of their fans??

I don't understand how this isn't a legitimate reason for them to value the Olympics over the Copa America.

Adit wrote:
Which club can block a player from playing in Euro? No one will dare to do that. But a superstar Neymar was 'blocked' by his club from playing his continents biggest cup? Give me a break. Not buying it. Especially when he is yet to sign an extension and have 3 clubs willing to pay his release clue.. Do you really believe the story that Barca blocked Neymars desire to play in his continents biggest tournament? Plssss.

Clubs aren't allowed to block players from playing with their national teams in tournaments, qualifiers, and friendlies.

However, I'm quite sure that doesn't apply to the Olympics. If they don't want to send them, they don't have to. Do you not remember the Messi situation in 2008?

Also, you're overcomplicating it. It was a mutual agreement between the Brazilian FA and Neymar. Barca didn't want Neymar to play both competitions. Neymar and the Brazilian FA chose the Olympics over the Copa. Considering that they hadn't won the competition and that they are hosting it, then I'd say they made the right choice.

Yup so sought after cup that was won by Mexico

Why are you even trying to big up that u23 competition which is not even relevant as confederation cup?

It's a shit cup that no one wants, why else do you think FIFA finally agreed to send u23 teams to it? It's not relevant.

Why is Brazil not calling Neymar again? Because Neymar and Brazil fa both thinks this fake copa isn't worth participating.

Which player would miss a Euro or World cup for that Olympics u23? No one.

Yet here is the Brazil's best player prioritizing Olympics over this copa, deservedly since it's relevance is still in doubt.

What's so funny about Mexico winning? I like how your making the tournament that is the Olympics less legit because of A) Mexico winning it and B) That's an U-23 and C) Just your personal opinions. That's like saying the Euro 2004 wasn't legit because Greece won it. How about some respect for the under dogs?

Anybody with half a brain can see that Brazil really want to win the Olympics. And if you have been paying to reports dating back to before the winter window, it was clear Neymar was throwing a fit because he desperately wanted to play both Copa and Olympics but Barca felt he needed a break after playing 2 tournaments in 2 previous summers. And yes, they moved to Copa to a new country where they can make more money, in an off year (the 100th year, so it's not a random ass year to do it), but it's all the south american teams that usually play plus some extra teams from concacaf to spice it up. And judging by the way all the teams have approached it, it's pretty clear they want to win it and care about. So just cause you don't care that the people running the show just want to make more money (who are you kidding, football is a business and moving the copa to the US is a smart business move) it doesn't change the fact it's still a copa (i would even say it's a stronger copa, due to the US and Mexico trying hard in the tournament and not sending B teams like they usually do). And again, Brazil DID want Neymar in the Copa, but Barca told them that if they called him up, that they wouldn't release him for the Olympics. So they sent the best squad they could minus Neymar (per Dungas dumbass selection of whats a strong team) and agreed to only call Neymar up for the Olympics in hopes he brings them glory on home soil, in a tournament they have never won. I'm assuming you don't know how passionate Brazilians are about football, if your making all these stupid ass arguments on your silly ass assumptions of who cares about what just cause you don't care about certain tournaments. Don't watch them then, instead of being on line trying to discredit payers/teams achievements.  You put such a high value on the World Cup, yet that shit is about as rigged and built on more money laundering than any other tournament on the planet, but because its held every 4 years its legit to you? gtfo

To answer Mole, if Messi manages to help Argentina win the 100th edition of the Copa America, he should absolutely get all the credit that merits it. If people want to make up reasons as to why it's not a win with Argentina, then it's whatev theres always gonna be people making up a reason to discredit anything. It's a win, the 100th year of the cup.

Then you should not celebrate CL win too. At least Venezuella is better than Wolsfburg. And Chile is A.Madrid

Kebab wrote:Then you should not celebrate CL win too. At least Venezuella is better than Wolsfburg. And Chile is A.Madrid

So, Chile > Barcelona That makes so much sense!

Thimmy wrote:

Kebab wrote:Then you should not celebrate CL win too. At least Venezuella is better than Wolsfburg. And Chile is A.Madrid

So, Chile > Barcelona That makes so much sense!

why not. At least it was Chile>Argentina in last copa america

This Copa America is harder because there's more teams. This is the way Copa America should always be instead of that Gold Cup thing and the South Americans having their own thing.

You'll see the credibility when Messi lifts his 6th in January.

I would put it like this.

Messi is not in need of any more credit given by us mortals, he's beyond earthly economics of appreciation, and his performances at the Copa are serving to set this beyondness in stone, again.

Little Leonardo Barbarossa

WC-10/10
Last year's CA- 9/10
This year's CA- 6.5/100

In terms of difficulty.

Why is this Copa less difficult than the other one? More teams are in it, that should make it harder

Not sure how that's even a question. Chile with Sampaoli, at home, makes the cup way more difficult. The rest of competition is pretty much the same bar Uruguay who completely flopped this cup, and Venezuela who were a surprise, but your road to the final in this year's cup is miles easier than last years. Sure you faced Paraguay in semi's, but you had Colombia before that, and finally Chile. You can only face who is front of you, but that doesn't mean last years cup would have meant a lot more.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Why is this Copa less difficult than the other one? More teams are in it, that should make it harder

Because it suits people's motives

Luca wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Why is this Copa less difficult than the other one? More teams are in it, that should make it harder

Because it suits people's motives

What's my motive?

Rebaño Sagrado wrote:

Luca wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Why is this Copa less difficult than the other one? More teams are in it, that should make it harder

Because it suits people's motives

What's my motive?

Not you specifically, I hope you don't take offence. The motive of discrediting Messi and this tournament generally.

I mean, I've seen people say the players don't care- not true at all.

I've seen people say the competition is poor- again, not true.

Just depends what you want to argue.

It's like saying this euro is so boring and blah, blah, blah.

It's much easier to find the bad then see the good.

We had to face Chile in the groups and sure our side of the bracket was on the easier side, but that's only because teams like Brazil and Uruguay failed to progress. That's kinda like arguing the the euros are easy because one side of the bracket doesn't have any WC winners.

Sure, but Chile has regressed since last year, and that's not up for debate. Same with Uruguay. The competition is not as good. You will have to beat a good team in the final, and you will be deserved champions, but it's not the same as winning a cup against Chile in Chile.

Rebs with that desperate attempt of employing a logic of 'minus times minus equals plus', hoping that tearing the whole competition down will somehow demagnify or even nullify Mexico's epic, historic failure

Rebaño Sagrado wrote:Sure, but Chile has regressed since last year, and that's not up for debate. Same with Uruguay. The competition is not as good. You will have to beat a good team in the final, and you will be deserved champions, but it's not the same as winning a cup against Chile in Chile.

But winning the 100th copa America is special, that's what kind of makes up for the watered down effect of having two copa Americas in back to back years. I think that's the only detriment of this tournament but the 100 year anniversary is something special and celebrated among the players.

Argentina has been unlucky in the past few years. They could easily be defending copa America and World Cup champions but this is how football goes.

Hapless_Hans wrote:Rebs with that desperate attempt of employing a logic of 'minus times minus equals plus', hoping that tearing the whole competition down will somehow demagnify or even nullify Mexico's epic, historic failure

How am i tearing the tournament down by saying the competition was higher last year? Are you stupid? How is saying Chile was better last year make it any better for me?

Rebaño Sagrado wrote: How is saying Chile was better last year make it any better for me?

It doesn't. That's why I said "desperate" attempt.

Luca wrote:

Rebaño Sagrado wrote:Sure, but Chile has regressed since last year, and that's not up for debate. Same with Uruguay. The competition is not as good. You will have to beat a good team in the final, and you will be deserved champions, but it's not the same as winning a cup against Chile in Chile.

But winning the 100th copa America is special, that's what kind of makes up for the watered down effect of having two copa Americas in back to back years. I think that's the only detriment of this tournament but the 100 year anniversary is something special and celebrated among the players.

Argentina has been unlucky in the past few years. They could easily be defending copa America and World Cup champions but this is how football goes.

I agree with that. Facing a machine like Germany, and then the greatest Chile team ever is not a huge a failure like many make out to be. They deserve to win a cup, and i think they will, but again the competition for me was higher in the previous cup

Hapless_Hans wrote:

Rebaño Sagrado wrote: How is saying Chile was better last year make it any better for me?

It doesn't. That's why I said "desperate" attempt.

Right, so you're just talking garbage. Bore off.

Rebaño Sagrado wrote:Sure, but Chile has regressed since last year, and that's not up for debate. Same with Uruguay. The competition is not as good. You will have to beat a good team in the final, and you will be deserved champions, but it's not the same as winning a cup against Chile in Chile.

It's not like they regressed SO much the competition went from a 9 to 6.5. They did put 7 past Mexico. They have grown in this competition.

And of course it's not the same as against Chile in Chile, but even then they didn't beat us, it went to pens.

I just don't see this noticeable drop in quality.