EURO 2016 France - Group E

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Which teams will go through? (Choose 2, please)

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Total Votes : 29
 
 

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Post by Kick Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:00 am

Italy deserved the win, they showed they cared more than Belgium, plus that defence :bow:

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Post by Zlatan Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:12 am

I don't think the defence is as impenetrable as people are making it out to be. Sure, Italy have arguably the best defence of the tournament, but last night Chiellini and Barzagli gave away plenty of possession, which a better team would have definitely made the most out of.

I really look forward to watching Candreva every time he plays for La Nazionale, such a livewire.

Bonucci was really good with his distribution, which really plastered over the incompetency of the midfielders, but it is difficult to visualize his distribution bringing this much impact against a better quality opposition.

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Post by Art Morte Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:23 am

Pissed off at yesterday's results in this group. Wanted Ireland and Belgium to win. Ireland stopped playing after taking the lead and Belgium are as shite as they were at the WC.

EL Patron wrote:Wilmot is garbage, how have they allowed him to waste such a generation of talented players.

This. Belgium fans should be absolutely furious with their FA. Incredible generation of players but a clueless manager is kept in charge.

Sweden and Ireland are not easy teams to beat, it'll get nervous for Belgium now.
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Post by Ion Creanga Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:37 am

I don't see how this Belgium generation is "incredible". Yes, they are good players and if we compare them to the previous Belgium NT, yeah, they're great, but i don't think their players are better by any means than the other good NT in Europe.

People make it seem like they're prime Brazil individual level or something.
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Post by S Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:13 am

The reason is pretty obvious.Most of them play in the EPL. :coffee:

Hazard is probably the only one who could become a world beater.The rest are good to very good players.Belgium are producing decent players across every position so its quite obvious they'd get hyped.

Right now,they are the Man City of NT's.They got a long way to go to be consistently on par with the elite nations.The coaching change won't alone solve it but its a start.
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Post by S Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:26 am

ES wrote: Belgium were incredibly unlucky to not score as well, i mean they had a bazillion chances in the 2nd half, if Origi hadn't messed up everytime

Seems like we were watching a different game then

The only clear cut chances i remember is Lukaku's chance and Fellaini's right at the end.Did you forget Pelle's missed sitters at Belgium's end too? Italy created the better and more significant chances by far,it shouldnt even be debated this.

You sound like a butthurt EPL fan who just lost to a Serie A side.They make the exact type of comments if they lose to Italian teams.

Pretty ridiculous to say Belgium were 'unlucky ' imo.
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Post by S Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:34 am

Hazard played a really good second half yesterday.Reason why Belgium stepped up the gas but he was let down by his lacklustre teammates who were really toothless.Lukaku,De Bruyne,Origi,Fellaini all of them.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:34 am

S wrote:The reason is pretty obvious.Most of them play in the EPL. :coffee:

Hazard is probably the only one who could become a world beater.The rest are good to very good players.Belgium are producing decent players across every position so its quite obvious they'd get hyped.

Right now,they are the Man City of NT's.They got a long way to go to be consistently on par with the elite nations.The coaching change won't alone solve it but its a start.


Not a single good playmaking CM, no good full backs, hardly any pace in anywhere but the defense, no real top quality DM, no real width in the team, no good full backs and no top quality striker. ( Lukaku is like 1 in 5 at international level)

So i completely disagree they have good to very good players in every position, it's very easy to blame the coach but there's a lot of faults with this team.
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Post by Art Morte Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:20 pm

It's an incredible generation for them, with almost every player playing in the big four or five leagues, many of them stars of big teams.

Also, it's not unusual to have unbalanced teams at national level, that is no excuse when you have as much overall quality as Belgium does. England doesn't have wingers, France has only got grandpa full-backs, Germany, too, has average full-backs and no proper center-forwards, Italy hasn't got any creative players, Sergio Ramos has got more career goals for Spain than their center-forwards combined etc. Teams at national level simply are more unbalanced than at club level, Belgium not having a great DM or great full-backs isn't an excuse, they're simply underachieving badly.
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Post by S Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:55 pm

Belgium's ceiling based on their talent level right now is QF's and if they get lucky,semis taking just Euros into consideration.

Last major tournament,they achieved their ceiling which is a QF berth in the world cup.Anything other than that is merely a bonus.

But if you think they are one of the best sides in the world and a EURO contender,then you're plain delusional.

Anyway its still a relatively young team that's a work in progress.They could do better eventually but lets stop pretending like they have world beater talent just because most of them play in the PL.

You people talk about Italy being better coached but simple fact is they still have world class defenders + GK which forms the backbone of the team.Its not like Conte is fielding an entire team of turds.
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Post by S Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:34 pm

Not a single good playmaking CM, no good full backs, hardly any pace in anywhere but the defense, no real top quality DM, no real width in the team, no good full backs and no top quality striker. ( Lukaku is like 1 in 5 at international level)

So i completely disagree they have good to very good players in every position, it's very easy to blame the coach but there's a lot of faults with this team.

Ffs why are you exaggerating so much Laughing Belgium have several good players, not exactly elite nor shit either.
On an individual talent basis,they're producing decent players, not across all but most positions.
As for playmaker,they have Tielemans coming through who's highly rated.Like i said, very young relatively thats a work in progress but its ridiculous to.claim they're badly underachieving right now or rather its too premature to expect them to slug it out with the big nations.
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Post by Robespierre Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:35 pm

Belgium is underachieved from Wilmots , Italy is exactly the opposite with Conte.
Ppl tend to underrate Conte for that CL flop here , but he is a top coach (better than the celebrated Allegri,for example ). His impact on teams is always outstanding and you already notice it from first matches played by his teams  . Chelsea fans will get it too.
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Post by S Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:38 pm

So Belgium underachieved in the last world cup?
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:42 pm

S wrote:
Not a single good playmaking CM, no good full backs, hardly any pace in anywhere but the defense, no real top quality DM, no real width in the team, no good full backs and no top quality striker. ( Lukaku is like 1 in 5 at international level)

So i completely disagree they have good to very good players in every position, it's very easy to blame the coach but there's a lot of faults with this team.

Ffs why are you exaggerating so much Laughing Belgium have several good players, not exactly elite nor shit either.
On an individual talent basis,they're producing decent players, not across all but most positions.
As for playmaker,they have Tielemans coming through who's highly rated.Like  i said, very young relatively thats a work in progress but its ridiculous to.claim they're badly underachieving right now or rather its too premature to expect them to slug it out with the big nations.


Where did i over-exaggerate? i never said they are crap, but they don't have decent players in every position.

They are just not what people claim they are, the likes of Witsel, Dembele, Lukaku, Naingollan, Fellaini and so on are decent player( in some cases not even that) yes but people act like they are top quality players and they are not.

Their team is full of players like this but that isn't enough to be the elite of international football, even some of their other players like Vertonghen and Alderweireld are not world class defenders and even the likes of De Bruyne, Courtois and Hazard while world level talents are overrated for what they contribute on the pitch.

They are an EL quality team with a few CL level talents who don't perform consistently and people act like they are elite contenders who are held back from being so by the coach.

Ignoring the fact that they are nowhere near the level required even if they had a good coach.
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Post by Robespierre Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:51 pm

S wrote:So Belgium underachieved in the last world cup?

For me yes
Played always a crap football based just on individualities and with no gamestyle
When I watch a team with no idea what about doing on pitch I always think it is underachiever from his coach .it is over the result.
Besides I haven't idea why coaches insist on Fellaini as n.10. Moyes did it why Everton had not other ways to score Laughing Belgium has enough quality to take Fellaini on bench.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:53 pm

They lost 1-0 to Argentina, who in the no way are they better than.

So i'll have to disagree. hmm
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Post by Jay29 Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:54 pm

In regards to last night's match I'm not quite sure what Wilmots was trying to accomplish with Fellaini playing AM behind Lukaku. Two big guys who don't move particularly well is easy for a back three like Italy's to defend against.

Their lack of quality full backs meant they had little width as well, so Fellaini and Lukaku weren't getting the early service they thrive on. Hazard and De Bruyne become easier to play against when there's little movement for them to work with.

De Bruyne at 10, and maybe Mertens on the wing might make them more penetrative.

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Post by S Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:01 pm

Mole,im agreeing with you dude.Im just saying they could eventually do better perhaps those chances could be boosted by a coaching change in the future.

Im disagreeing with those saying they are underachieving RIGHT NOW, as i said,they are still a young team who are just rated on their individual skill and not WC right now apart from maybe 1 or 2 players.

They are doing fine for the moment.The underachieving claims become valid if they get kicked out of the groups,not because they lost to Italy.

As for the last WC,they made QF's which is a good result for a country like Belgium who don't have the international pedigree of the elite nations and they went out to the eventual finalists and one of the top 2 teams in the world.Nothing wrong with that.
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Post by S Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:06 pm

Classic example of underachieving=Italy's mid/late nineties squad and Spain's 00's squad.

World class players im their prime playing for elite clubs but underachieved somewhat on the NT stage.This is more valid for Spain.

This Belgium is not comparable to those teams.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:09 pm

Well i agree Surag i was just saying i don't think i'm exaggerating lol. Also i agree it could help with a better coach but really what i'm saying is that by itself won't be enough.
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Post by S Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:14 pm

Agree

We're both agreeing and disagreeing at the same time.Thats the beauty of this conversation Laughing.Proud
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Post by Robespierre Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:14 pm

S wrote:Classic example of underachieving=Italy's mid/late nineties squad and Spain's 00's squad.

World class players im their prime playing for elite clubs but underachieved somewhat on the NT stage.This is more valid for Spain.

This Belgium is not comparable to those teams.

It is also another football. I believe there is not the overall quality than the past (we are talking about.a football without.the Brazil) so , given the context, this Belgium is an important NT
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:19 pm

S wrote:Agree

We're both agreeing and disagreeing at the same time.Thats the beauty of this conversation Laughing.Proud


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Post by S Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:25 pm

Important NT ? In what context?

They probably are a top 8 NT on paper but that doesnt make them an important NT.Not like all the best players are coming from Belgium or atleast a good portion of them if that's what you mean..People are expecting too much of this team.They arent that good imo.
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Post by rincon Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:33 pm

They are more than good.

Nainggolan, Witsel, Hazard, De Bruyne, Curtois are very good players. Then you have Lukaku, Batshuayi, Origi, Mertens as options. Only their defense is bad cause they have no fullbacks but Curtois offers guarantees (as he showed again against Italy).

The problem is their coach is terrible and wasting this team.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:46 pm

rincon wrote:They are more than good.

Nainggolan, Witsel, Hazard, De Bruyne, Curtois are very good players. Then you have Lukaku, Batshuayi, Origi, Mertens as options. Only their defense is bad cause they have no fullbacks but Curtois offers guarantees (as he showed again against Italy).

The problem is their coach is terrible and wasting this team.


You are just listing names.

There needs to be a balance, there's real no quality CM who can open up defence among those players, no real stopper in midfield either. No real change of pace on the flanks to open space for others and their #1 striker is 1 in 5 at international level.

When i look at a football team i look for certain things:

Does it have a reliable back 4? does it have a DM who can protect said defence?, does it have pace in wide areas to open up space for the central players and give delivery to the strikers? Does it have a reliable goal threat? does it have a passer who can open up chances for others?

If a team doesn't have those things then it's horribly balanced, the problem i find with most people they look at the names without considering whether the combinations in the team flow together.

Belgium has pretty much none of these and you wonder why they struggle, as said the coach is nowhere near the only issue with this team and getting a good coach in won't get anywhere close to what's expected of them by itself.
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