GAME OF THRONES - PART 7 - *NO BOOK TALK - READ THE RULES*

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:01 am

Maybe it's because I read the episode was shit prior to watching, but am I the only one that thought it was a good episode? Not nearly as bad as I expected.

The only thing that bothered me was Dany arriving when we most expect her to, lazy writing.

Also I was a heavy skeptic of the Arya theories and I was proved right, the simplest explanation was that she was simply taken. But the reason for the doubts was because of lazy writing (Arya should not have been portrayed as so airloof)

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Post by Kaladin Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:03 am

I'm surprised book readers aren't even extra mad since it debunked a lot of theories
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Post by RealGunner Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:49 am

I said it before. It was highly unlikely that Arya=waif theory was correct. Not enough time for that to happen and it wouldn't make sense at this point of GoT.

There is no point being mad since the story is going to be different in the books. For example, her training the books actually helps her become an assassin. She learns how to successfully warg, learn different languages, learn how to poison her enemies etc.
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Post by RealGunner Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:52 am

Guard: Open the gates!
Blackfish: Are you high? This is clearly a trap.
Guard: (cross-eyed) But he's my lord, my lord!
Blackfish: The *bleep* are you talking about? You literally said nothing a few days ago when I told the Freys to slit his useless throat..
Guard: You are not the Lord of this castle, my Lord.
Blackfish: Wait.. why do you keep saying that? Am I your Lord or not? You know what? *bleep* it. Open the gates. I said I'd defend this castle no matter what.. but they're just going to kill me off screen anyway.

rofl

Thought that was pretty dumb as well.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:15 am

I liked Jaime's catapult speech though, pretty on point
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Post by RealGunner Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:20 am

Jaime was the best part of the episode by far. Along with Sandor and the mountain.

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Post by zigra Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:22 am

ES wrote:I'm surprised book readers aren't even extra mad since it debunked a lot of theories

The show can't debunk or confirm theories regarding the books so there's no reason to be mad.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:23 am

urbaNRoots wrote:
Meereen getting attacked is interesting, but Varys again does not get to meet Daenerys lol. Where is he going, he mentioned needing allies-- is he going to Dorne? With the Iron Born near Slaver's Bay, I expect them to arrive any time now. I hope they don't blueball us again, I want to see a Naval battle now.
I thought this was odd too, shouldn't he wait to meet Dany and hear that she plans on going to Westeros rather than stay and rule in Meereen before going there to plant the seeds of rebellion?

I suppose with only 2 episodes left they didn't have enough time to believably have him show up in Westeros by Epi 10.
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Post by Kaladin Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:26 am



The promo is so hypeeeeeeeeeeee :bow:
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Post by RealGunner Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:45 am

Judging by that promo. Jon's army will get battered with Littlefinger saving the day towards the end. Could be a deliberate swerve though hmm




I think at this point there is no theory nor any misdirection by D&D. We are around 80% of the story and with only 13 more episodes in the next 2 seasons, they will try to close every arc as fast as they can.
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Post by LeVersacci Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:44 pm

So disappointed with the new Jon. He's basically the same pleb. Really expected to see a different Jon. I mean what's the point of reviving him then?

Won't even care if he dies again. His lads will probably revive him again and the lord of the light will be like

Spoiler:
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Post by Glory Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:18 pm

There was a big anomaly btw between 2 scenes in e07 and 08. In e07, Blackfish dismisses the Frey's blackmailing/hanging of Edmure and tells them they can kill him and that he wont give a shit. His(edmure's) supposed soldiers didnt give a damn too. That time they didnt say hey he's our lord. You cant do that old man. blah blah They were totally okay with it.
In e08, when Edmure asked his men to open the gates, these devoted men went against Blackfish and did as their lord commanded.

Basically like telling Freys are morons and plebs so their plan cant work whereas Jaime is a central character of our show and his plan has to work. Laughing when in fact both of their plans ultimately were more or less similar. I will even say the Frey's attempting blackmail was a slightly better plan as well.
Their lord was about to die in front of them and these plebs didnt give a shit and obeyed Blackfish like kittens then. Laughing

David and Dan folks. Proud Unreal shit writing. If not for the GoATness of the 1st 4 seasons this show would not have even been existing by now. GRRM please save us. Hopefully they will delay s07. Seriously cant bear this stupidity for another season.


Last edited by Glory on Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:20 pm

I think the point is that the soldiers don't want to die because the blackfish is a stubborn man. They saw an out to get out of this alive, and they took it.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:20 pm

You might be right but it might be the case that Edmure actually verbally issued a command to let him in as opposed to being held at knife point and saying nothing.
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Post by Glory Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:37 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I think the point is that the soldiers don't want to die because the blackfish is a stubborn man. They saw an out to get out of this alive, and they took it.


Tomwin Lannister wrote:You might be right but it might be the case that Edmure actually verbally issued a command to let him in as opposed to being held at knife point and saying nothing.


When the very lord they have sworn to protect is about to be hanged, how can they wait for insignificant formalities such as that. I can kind of agree their inaction and skepticism for a while as asking them to stop hanging will mean surrendering the castle. That is okay.
But then blackfish went on and even said he dont care about the supposed Tully lord and they can do whatever they want. No soldier will accept something like that meekly.

Its double standards and inconsistent writing. If they were scared of the Blackdfish on the first instant, why they were not the second time. A way out? Hmm may be. But still i dont think it can save the mess, at least not for me.

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Post by El Gunner Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:07 pm

Dat Tyrion, Greyworm, Missandei scene :facepalm:
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Post by El Gunner Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:08 pm

If bastardbowl beats Mountain vs Viper I won't be able to sleep for 3 days because adrenalin
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Post by urbaNRoots Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:43 pm

Glory wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:I think the point is that the soldiers don't want to die because the blackfish is a stubborn man. They saw an out to get out of this alive, and they took it.


Tomwin Lannister wrote:You might be right but it might be the case that Edmure actually verbally issued a command to let him in as opposed to being held at knife point and saying nothing.


When the very lord they have sworn to protect is about to be hanged, how can they wait for insignificant formalities such as that. I can kind of agree their inaction and skepticism for a while as asking them to stop hanging will mean surrendering the castle. That is okay.
But then blackfish went on and even said he dont care about the supposed Tully lord and they can do whatever they want. No soldier will accept something like that meekly.

Its double standards and inconsistent writing. If they were scared of the Blackdfish on the first instant, why they were not the second time. A way out? Hmm may be. But still i dont think it can save the mess, at least not for me.

In E7 Blackfish was acting Lord of Riverrun in Edmure's absence, in E8 Edmure came forward and commanded the garrison to surrender the castle. Of course they obey their true lord instead of his uncle (and also find a way out without dying).

The Blackfish was an old done man, he was clearly tired of running and wanted to have a decent death defending his home, Edmure and the garrison wanted to live so they surrendered. There's no bad writing here, it's very consistent even.
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Post by Glory Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:08 am

You are saying Edmure was their acting Lord. Well then, how about the fact that their REAL fricking lord was standing in front of them, with his very life in jeopardy. Or did they not know it?! If it was the case and they only came to know that Edmure was their actual lord when he himself said so in E8 then fine. Its their ignorance and dumbness. Script is not the culprit.

But had they known, why were they letting it happen? Its evident Blackfish didnt have a single man who was his. All of those plebs were willing to take the sword against him.

So ultimately my question is if he was so convincingly outnumbered as well as his position and superiority taken out. (Mind you, the acting lord will only remain in charge until the actual lord returns, so at that point in E7 he wasnt the acting lord with Edmure being there albeit as a prisoner) why didnt they protest when he scoffed at their supposed real lord? No one can tell for sure what the Freys would have done at that instant. They could have easily went on with the execution. Blackfish (with the mute consent of the Tully forces) left it for chance.
The inconsistency arose when these same people churned out a sense of devotion and duty from somewhere within them in E8 when Edmure came running to them like a pussy.

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Post by LeVersacci Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:15 pm

No way is the Stark team winning without losses. I could see a flayed Rickon hanging on a flayed cross thing in the battlefield. But if he dies then what has been the point of his character?

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Post by Zlatan Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:46 pm

LeVersacci wrote:No way is the Stark team winning without losses. I could see a flayed Rickon hanging on a flayed cross thing in the battlefield. But if he dies then what has been the point of his character?



I believe Rickon will have a bigger purpose than just increasing Ramsey's kills. There hasn't been much from his pov, but I don't think we'll see the death of a stark without any real significance to the plot. Since the title says no book talk, I'll just post an instance where the show tells us that Rickon also has visions


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Post by RealGunner Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:42 pm

Would be strange for them to bring back Rickon after 4 years just to kill him off for Ramsay. But I can see that happening unfortunately.

----------


Anyone think Arya will meet Daenerys on her way back to Westeros? Can see it happen if they are both on ships on their way back.
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Post by urbaNRoots Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:51 pm

If Rickon dies I won't feel anything because we never got to really know him. We didn't see his reaction to Shaggydog's death, Osha's death, when he found out that his mom and Robb are dead, what he thinks of the Umbers etc... nothing at all.

For that I hope he stays alive and there is a power struggle for Winterfell with Littlefinger/Sansa and Rickon/Sansa dividing the Northern houses.

Maybe that's exactly why Rickon has to die, he is in Sansa's way right now.
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Post by Zlatan Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:31 am

The best explanation on Arya's faceless men arc

TwiceBorn wrote:

   If you think that FM are simply an assassins guild then you probably expected things to go Lian Hearn style - vengeful ninjas hunting Arya 4life. If you think that FM are more like Keepers from the "Thief" games or D&D Druids (so called lawful neutral) - observers and careful manipulators, it makes much more sense.

   The Waif was an awful example of FM because she enjoyed frightening, pursuing, torturing and killing her victims. We shouldn't treat her as a model FM. She understood nothing from the religious teachings. FM deliver "the gift" to save one from the unnecessary suffering and only if it is balanced by equally significant sacrifice. FM also demand that the one delivering "the gift" is to be indifferent and preferably doesn't even know a person he is supposed to kill.

   The Waif repeatedly demanded the right to murder a girl she was jealous of. And her wish was granted: she was allowed to try. She failed because of her shortcomings and paid the ultimate price... for "Only death can pay for life". The outcome was decided from the start, at least this is what true FM believer would assume. Unlike the Waif, Arya have learned from her lessons by suffering as her victims had suffered. She have learned the value of life, the compassion, the mercy. By defeating Waif, a mirror image of her old spiteful self, Aria finally discards her old self. She has become No-One, thus she can become whomever she wants to be.

   Let me sum this up with two quotes from one of the greatest games of old:

   The essence of balance is detachment. To embrace a cause, to grow fond or spiteful, is to lose one's balance, after which, no action can be trusted. Our burden is not for the dependent of spirit.

   and

   The most promising acolyte left us, not out of the lesser folly of sentiment, but the greater folly of anger. His heart was clouded, and his balance was lost, but his abilities were unmatched. Even then, we knew to watch him most carefully.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/141263-faceless-men-history-turned-on-its-head/&page=3

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Post by Glory Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:16 am

urbaNRoots wrote:If Rickon dies I won't feel anything because we never got to really know him. We didn't see his reaction to Shaggydog's death, Osha's death, when he found out that his mom and Robb are dead, what he thinks of the Umbers etc... nothing at all.

For that I hope he stays alive and there is a power struggle for Winterfell with Littlefinger/Sansa and Rickon/Sansa dividing the Northern houses.

Maybe that's exactly why Rickon has to die, he is in Sansa's way right now.


This.
I am actually expecting a flayed Rickon as well in the next episode. Getting mentally ready for it.
The writers havent really done anything with his character over the years. We dont know him barring the knowledge that he is called the wild stark or something . People doesnt feel the same kind of connection to him as they to a Bran or a Robb. Its sad cos I would have preferred Sansa's death any day over his.  
Getting him killed can really send Jon over the edge. So wont mind actually if something like that can further thicken Jon's character and arc.

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Post by zigra Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:51 pm

RealGunner wrote:
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Anyone think Arya will meet Daenerys on her way back to Westeros? Can see it happen if they are both on ships on their way back.

If you look at where Braavos and Meereen are... no.

map:
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