Re: Manchester United Vs Manchester City : Who has the brighter future ?

by zigra Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:17 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Also I'm confused why this thread is being bumped based on Sunday when the thread is about the future

It's not always about the distant future hmm

by rincon Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:19 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Also I'm confused why this thread is being bumped based on Sunday when the thread is about the future

Sunday is a good day to think about the future hmm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

What has that got to do with anything? Quite obviously if players like Ianeacho are due to the work over the last 4 to 5 years.

What happens this summer has nothing to do with that in the slightest, besides it's only compared to Man Yoo who also do *bleep* all really.

Just trying to be fair. United actually does promote a lot of players lately, they don't necessarily work out, but they try. Januzaj and the gang of scrubs have been tried.

Mourinho will likely set them back in that sense though.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:21 pm

Fair enough hmm

Honestly I don’t think either are that good at development tbh.

by Sri Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:24 pm

My thoughts about future typically center around my next meal hmm

by Hapless_Hans Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:07 pm

Sri wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:
Sri wrote:Even Arsenal has a better defense than City atm

Arsenal have had the best central defense in the league for a number of seasons now

Not sure if RG hacked your account here.

Mertesacker is ok, but has his well-documented shortcomings. Koscielny is among the best CBs worldwide, even if you discount the RG-Hype-Machinery.

That said, Mustafi is a solid addition to phase out Mertesacker. Gabriel can still turn it around (Koscielny took his time to grow into what he is today too). Holding and Chambers have the potential to be the bedrock of our long term CB partnership too.

With Bellerin and Monreal, we have a solid pair of full backs. Gibbs and Debuchy will be consistent, if not stellar, backups to the pair. So that is sorted too.

I haven't yet given up on Jenkinson, especially if he can go back to the pre-injury West Ham levels. That would ease him in when we move Debuchy on.

(All this, with Cech in goal and Ospina as a more than able players waiting in line).

In all, that's pretty solid.

Koscielny-Merte were the best CB pairing in the league in the last seasons, period.
Who is better?
Who has better numbers?
Especially if you consider how defensive midfield support was a perennial problem in Arsenal's setup, they did very, very well.

It's only because it's become such a tired, deep seated clishé in the PL public that Arsenal are supposed to be bad at defending that this fact isn't recognized, pointed out, and appreciated more.

Now with Mustafi and Holding, Arsenal have even upgraded on that.

by Sri Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:38 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Sri wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:

Arsenal have had the best central defense in the league for a number of seasons now

Not sure if RG hacked your account here.

Mertesacker is ok, but has his well-documented shortcomings. Koscielny is among the best CBs worldwide, even if you discount the RG-Hype-Machinery.

That said, Mustafi is a solid addition to phase out Mertesacker. Gabriel can still turn it around (Koscielny took his time to grow into what he is today too). Holding and Chambers have the potential to be the bedrock of our long term CB partnership too.

With Bellerin and Monreal, we have a solid pair of full backs. Gibbs and Debuchy will be consistent, if not stellar, backups to the pair. So that is sorted too.

I haven't yet given up on Jenkinson, especially if he can go back to the pre-injury West Ham levels. That would ease him in when we move Debuchy on.

(All this, with Cech in goal and Ospina as a more than able players waiting in line).

In all, that's pretty solid.

Koscielny-Merte were the best CB pairing in the league in the last seasons, period.
Who is better?
Who has better numbers?
Especially if you consider how defensive midfield support was a perennial problem in Arsenal's setup, they did very, very well.

It's only because it's become such a tired, deep seated clishé in the PL public that Arsenal are supposed to be bad at defending that this fact isn't recognized, pointed out, and appreciated more.

Now with Mustafi and Holding, Arsenal have even upgraded on that.

Calling them the best is a Hans-esque exaggeration, but I broadly agree with your assessment otherwise.

by Hapless_Hans Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:53 pm

The best pairing in the league in recent years. Not the best overall, obviously.
Tell me which central defense you thought was better, in the last 3 seasons?

by Sri Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:57 pm

I think Terry/Cahill was pretty solid.

Also, props to Leicester's defense last season.

The numbers, in my opinion, don't always tell the compete picture. However, I admit that they're among the more appropriate quantitative metrics that we have.

by Sri Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:58 pm

Peak SAF defense was amazing too iirc - though that wouldn't count as 'recent years' anymore

by Hapless_Hans Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:00 pm

Terry/Cahill only got to be solid for a season or two because of Mourinho's massively defensive setup. If the whole team defense isn't tight anymore, we've seen how absolutely terrible they can look all of a sudden.

Let's not forget Arsenal managed decently low numbers of goals conceded with Wenger doing stuff like playing a double pivot of Arteta-Oxlade, with the full backs bombing forward, (yes, that happened Laughing

) away at Chelsea and thus shipping five goals in one go.

by Sri Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:09 pm

That's just it though, how do you compare 'only' the CB pairing, discounting the effects of the midfield protection and the system in place?

That's why goals conceded would be a poor metric.

We also have to consider the fact that we had lolworthy GKs for a while before Cech.

And that season, there were a whole bunch of 5 and 6 goal hammerings - including City, Chelsea, and Liverpool. Lots of yolo selections and tactics, partially enforced by player fitness.

by Sri Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:11 pm

@Mods/admin - could you please splice these posts into a separate thread? 'Best PL CB pairing in last 5 seasons' perhaps?

I get that it is deviating away from the Manchester ~~pissfest~~ bragging rights over brighter futures.

by Kaladin Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:21 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
ES wrote:United definitely has the better future, Rashford, Pogs, Martial etc. City may have hacks like Gabriel Jesus and Stones, but you can count on Guardiola to ruin them, i mean this is the guy who got Xabi and benched Thiago. Who's only notable promotion from Barca youth was Bojan and look how that turned out

Eh? If there's one thing you can't criticise him for is an ability to develop players lol.

He doesn't ruin kids really, you can criticise for a lot of things but that isn't one of them.

I mean wasn't he playing Kimmich and Coman over much more experienced players last year lol.

You were much more fun when your trolling wasn't so blatant.

He was playing Kimmich and Coman because there was an insane injury crisis, Kimmich wouldn't have seen the light of day if Boateng/Javi/Benatia etc weren't out, Coman the same

by Kaladin Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:27 pm

And lol @ the trolling part, just because someone doesn't share your view doesn't mean he's a troll

by sportsczy Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:30 pm

Mustafi-Koscielny... I have to see Mustafi in the EPL first. Top 2 pairing along with Bailly-Blind.

Stones-Otamendi is really shaky imo. Cahill/Terry is solid... but it's not great. Cahill just isn't a very good defender imo. I still like Terry though.

This is where Liverpool has failed massively btw. I can't believe Klopp didn't upgrade BOTH CBs. In what universe did he think Lovren-Matip was going to be ok. Once it was clear he wasn't going to count on Sakho, he should have moved for another CB.

by Firenze Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:34 pm

if Mustafi is legit then Arsenal will have the best CB pairing by far lol, can't say I'm a fan of any in the PL atm.

Need to see a lot more of Bailly, he seems very good thus far though.

by Sri Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:39 pm

Firenze wrote:Hope we smash them tbh, I expect it to be a boring draw though

Mostly to shut up these plebs that are sucking off Pep at every opportunity ffs (not necessarily on GL)

Shots fired at Pepmonica

by Sri Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:42 pm

sportsczy wrote:Mustafi-Koscielny... I have to see Mustafi in the EPL first. Top 2 pairing along with Bailly-Blind.

Stones-Otamendi is really shaky imo. Cahill/Terry is solid... but it's not great. Cahill just isn't a very good defender imo. I still like Terry though.

This is where Liverpool has failed massively btw. I can't believe Klopp didn't upgrade BOTH CBs. In what universe did he think Lovren-Matip was going to be ok. Once it was clear he wasn't going to count on Sakho, he should have moved for another CB.

I think Cahill is pretty good for the PL tbf. Agree on judging Mustafi once he plays a bit (and realizes that playing at the Arsenal backline is the most exposed he'll ever be).

I have seen a lot of hope tied to Matip here, but haven't seen (enough) to form an opinion yet. I think Sakho can work himself back into Klopp's plans if he is humble and diligent.

by Hapless_Hans Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:44 pm

Klopp brought in 2 CBs though.
@sportsczy 's universe, despite the Eastern Europeanish username, apparently does not extend until Estonia.

by sportsczy Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:49 pm

Who was the second other than Matip (who I think is going to have a hard time btw; I thought he was slow in Bundi let alone EPL)?

Edit: Klavan... you have to be joking.

by Sri Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:23 pm

But that's typical of Kloppo's scouting tbf

by McAgger Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:47 pm

lmao at Sport thinking Blind is gonna be part of a top 2 Cb partnership and then goes and writes out the likes of Matip, Cahill, Otemendi, Lovren Laughing

by RED Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:58 pm

Rashford

/discussion

by RealGunner Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:21 pm

RED wrote:Rashford

/Bench

fixed

by RED Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:28 pm

RealGunner wrote:
RED wrote:Rashford

/Bench

fixed

by S Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:24 am

Almost 2 seasons in now and if we ignore the first season which has been fairly average for both clubs(unless winning EL is considered a huge achievement for a club like United) but City are walking away with a PL title, potentially contesting a Champions League semi and won their domestic cup while Man United are battling to keep their 2nd spot, kicked out of CL , have their star players underperforming and managed by a coach who's practically washed up and refuses to own up to his mistakes. Even in the short term, City look the more dominant and successful club.

Inb4FaCupvictory and everything's fine at United again.

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