Are American Liberals Too Smug?

El Messico wrote:Atleast press-wise, things are better in the UK than in North America. The US is basically a land mine if you're looking for impartial analysis. Fox and it's groupies are so ridiculous most people don't even take them seriously. But it's the papers that lean liberal that are far more dangerous. They're insidious enough to appear intellectual and evidence-based yet have some of the most polarizing opinions around. This is because their understanding of the limitations of statistics and study methodologies is not strong enough to accurately inform their readership of the facts.

However, their facade of rigorous analysis and knowledge (not to mention the common liberal theme of moral superiority) is very convincing, especially to readers in my demographic (early 20s, urban student). The new-age digital newspapers are prime examples - Slate, Daily Beast etc.

In Canada, it's definitely better - the Globe and Mail and National Post stick to reporting news and limit the number of op-eds (or atleast have op-eds that are more centrist).

Also, if anyone's got the time, could you explain why the Liberal Democrats in the UK are so roundly dismissed? Is it the current leadership that's weak or do people genuinely not agree with their policy stances? I have limited context into the history of British politics, but having read up on the Lib Dems and 'Orange Bookers' in particular, I fail to see why they are not a stronger presence.

My views generally co-incide very well with those expressed by the Economist, and if I were a British citizen, I'd probably give Cameron a second term. Obviously, being an outsider, I don't have a particularly informed opinion, but I'd like to see him again, if atleast for the bantz. Genuinely wonder if he has a comedian write his lines at PMQ's or whether he's just that spontaneous.

VivaStPauli wrote:They are smug. They're also mostly right, which makes it infuriating for both sides of the isle.

DuringTheWar wrote:"A politics that insists it has no ideology at all, only facts. No moral convictions, only charts, the kind that keep them from "imposing their morals" like the bad guys do."

Otherwise known as the "rationalist delusion" -  the false belief that you are an exploratory reasoner when in actual fact you are being guided by emotional affectations. There are objective thinkers, just not many, on either side of the isle, reason as an adaptive function operates more to serve as lawyer than scientist.

(And incidentally objective thinkers are usually psychopaths, or sociopaths; hence the lack of emotions, which ties in well with the research demonstrating libertarians are the most systematic thinkers with the highest IQ on average, AND have the lowest levels of empathy on average, think of an analytical person like Ayn Rand for example)

From the reason website that was linked to -

"In one study, the researchers analyzed the responses of nearly 1,500 undergraduates sorted along the usual liberal-conservative continuum to a questionnaire asking them to think about various social and political issues. Their answers were then coded for integrative complexity and compared. It turns out that conservatives showed more complexity when dealing with topics like the death penalty, socialism, and refugees. Liberal responses were more complex when considering pre-marital sex, biblical truth, and alcohol. Overall, they report that liberals showed no greater complexity in thinking than conservatives did.

A similar study analyzed liberal and conservative responses to a 30-item questionnaire. Again, conservatives exhibited more complex thinking on some topics, including open-door immigration, smoking, castration, and easy access to birth control. Liberals were complex when discussing organized religion, abortion on demand, making racial discrimination illegal, and being assertive."


How that is surprising to anyone I can barely fathom. But as I stated the average liberal suffers from the rationalist delusion just because they aren't christians, with a bit of dunning Kruger thrown into the mix, the result being not only someone who is blind to their own dogmatic tendencies, but someone who actually thinks they are a warrior against dogma itself. I see that all the time on this forum. Of course this results in skyrocketing levels of smugness.

And that stereotype of republicans as uneducated/stupid. I mean seriously, how do you continue thinking in generalisations such as that when you look at exit poll data showing democrats dominate the least educated sections of society?

Anyways I am of the opinion American liberalism is in the process of being and will soon be killed by humanistic nihilism, you can see the nasty being ratcheted up day by day.

FennecFox7 wrote:Thimmy I can't stand close minded people. Seriously, I wonder if people who actually have a brain use it. Duringthewar is in his own world of sadness tbh.

Thimmy wrote:

DuringTheWar wrote:"A politics that insists it has no ideology at all, only facts. No moral convictions, only charts, the kind that keep them from "imposing their morals" like the bad guys do."

Otherwise known as the "rationalist delusion" -  the false belief that you are an exploratory reasoner when in actual fact you are being guided by emotional affectations. There are objective thinkers, just not many, on either side of the isle, reason as an adaptive function operates more to serve as lawyer than scientist.

(And incidentally objective thinkers are usually psychopaths, or sociopaths; hence the lack of emotions, which ties in well with the research demonstrating libertarians are the most systematic thinkers with the highest IQ on average, AND have the lowest levels of empathy on average, think of an analytical person like Ayn Rand for example)

From the reason website that was linked to -

"In one study, the researchers analyzed the responses of nearly 1,500 undergraduates sorted along the usual liberal-conservative continuum to a questionnaire asking them to think about various social and political issues. Their answers were then coded for integrative complexity and compared. It turns out that conservatives showed more complexity when dealing with topics like the death penalty, socialism, and refugees. Liberal responses were more complex when considering pre-marital sex, biblical truth, and alcohol. Overall, they report that liberals showed no greater complexity in thinking than conservatives did.

A similar study analyzed liberal and conservative responses to a 30-item questionnaire. Again, conservatives exhibited more complex thinking on some topics, including open-door immigration, smoking, castration, and easy access to birth control. Liberals were complex when discussing organized religion, abortion on demand, making racial discrimination illegal, and being assertive."


How that is surprising to anyone I can barely fathom. But as I stated the average liberal suffers from the rationalist delusion just because they aren't christians, with a bit of dunning Kruger thrown into the mix, the result being not only someone who is blind to their own dogmatic tendencies, but someone who actually thinks they are a warrior against dogma itself. I see that all the time on this forum. Of course this results in skyrocketing levels of smugness.

And that stereotype of republicans as uneducated/stupid. I mean seriously, how do you continue thinking in generalisations such as that when you look at exit poll data showing democrats dominate the least educated sections of society?

Anyways I am of the opinion American liberalism is in the process of being and will soon be killed by humanistic nihilism, you can see the nasty being ratcheted up day by day.

Am I wrong in assuming that you are a smug, hypocritical, conservative christian with a complete lack of introspection?

Spoiler:

DuringTheWar wrote:Smug american liberal Vs English conservative



I think the American right has psychologically skewered her perception of reality. Boris Johnson like Trump ? She's going to start seeing Trump in her toast soon, assuming bread doesn't make her "break out in hives".

Peccadillo wrote:Anyone got any views on milo yiannopoulos?

I watched him on the Joe Rogan podcast and found him to have an interesting perspective, despite coming across as slightly contradictory & overly provocative.

His bashing of the new mainstream psuedo-liberalism that exists today is fun to watch. Whilst I am sure he is just being outrageous for the publicity and probably doesn't believe everything he says I do agree with his over-arching position that many of those who identify as liberal need to be called out for their BS.

I don't consider myself right wing at all but the attitudes of the left nowadays probably nudge me further to the centre than I actually am.

DuringTheWar wrote:I've kept track of milo for a while, seeing as his homosexuality has already been brought up I'll make a comment about that - It is interesting to note the warm reception he's had amongst American conservatives. I think perhaps it shows that a lot of the "homophobia" in those circles is really related to broader issues that get wrapped up in and conflated with homosexuality. If they have no problem with a very extravagant homo like milo who shares similar values to them I suspect the issue is more about the infestation of all round freakazoids in political gay circles like Dan Savage.