Is Ibra the biggest choker in CL history?

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Post by rincon Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:35 am

Also, how was he played out of position? Pato plays both CF and left forward. Both of which were available at Milan.

Pato was the CF in Allegri's 4-3-1-2

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Post by giovanni_milan Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:44 am

They way the entire Milan team dropped in form and ability after he left was staggering.
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Post by Unique Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:53 am

ibra has played for some big clubs and won titles. but the question will always be why did all of them clubs sell him as quick as they signed him. the simple answer is the guy will play well and score goals when his team are GOAT. tell him to work hard for a result and fight for the team and that's the end of ibra. the guy scores lots of goals and great goals when the going is good. but imo the guy will never fight for his team. he likes his team to fight for him.
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Post by M99 Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:54 am

Pato was one of the biggest heroes of the Scudetto winning season...he killed of both of our challengers in Inter Milan and Napoli. Ibra did not sideline him, injuries did.

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Post by sportsczy Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:07 am

M99...  you guys were playing Pato wide while Ibra was going down the middle.  I remember very very well watching Pato trying to do as much as he could and he did ok later on.  But he was like Cavani there:  Uncomfortable and opportunistic when possible.  Unlike Cavani, he did manage some big goals despite it.  And then the injuries happened.

I remember PSG making a run at him because he wanted to be the regular CF in the summer of 2011... but his GF Barbara Berlu talked him out of it.

I wish Ganso was still posting here and he could give a dissertation on it.


Last edited by sportsczy on Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by sportsczy Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:10 am

rincon wrote:Every Milan will certainly not tell you that. Pato faded entirely because of injuries, not Ibra. Every time he came back he would run and dribble against half the team until he got injured again.

You can argue what his best season was. But saying that he became a fringe scorer because of Ibra, when he had his highest scoring season in Europe playing next to him, is just wrong.

No he didn't.  His high scoring overall and in Europe was 2008-2009.  He had 18 total goals that year with 3 in CL.  In his only productive year with Ibra in 2010-2011, he had 16 goals and none in CL.
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Post by Based Bonera Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:23 am

I always thought Ibra made everyone around him better, not the other way around. Hes frickin 34 years old. I dont think how hes a choker in the CL at all. Maybe he missed some chances against city but you cant announce him the biggest choker history after 2 games lol
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Post by M99 Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:31 am

sportsczy wrote:M99...  you guys were playing Pato wide while Ibra was going down the middle.  I remember very very well watching Pato trying to do as much as he could and he did ok later on.  But he was like Cavani there:  Uncomfortable and opportunistic when possible.  Unlike Cavani, he did manage some big goals despite it.  And then the injuries happened.

I remember PSG making a run at him because he wanted to be the regular CF in the summer of 2011... but his GF Barbara Berlu talked him out of it.

I wish Ganso was still posting here and he could give a dissertation on it.


I watched like every game of Pato. He was great that season, only scored two less goals than he did on his highest scoring season, difference was he scored more important goals. That was probably his best season. His injuries just kept getting worse and worse each year. He became half the player he used to be because of injuries not Zlatan.

Also he played wide the season before Zlatan came too. He was RW in Leonardo's 4-3-3 with Ronaldinho at LW and Boriello at CF.
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Post by Guest Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:30 am

Based Bonera wrote:I always thought Ibra made everyone around him better, not the other way around. Hes frickin 34 years old. I dont think how hes a choker in the CL at all. Maybe he missed some chances against city but you cant announce him the biggest choker history after 2 games lol


I don't think people are making this statement because of the two games against City. For me it seems that these two performances are only adding/cementing to what people have been saying for a while now. I don't have the best memory, but I do recall this being mentioned before and some Inter years where Ibra would disappear on the CL stage.

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Post by rincon Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:09 am

sportsczy wrote:
rincon wrote:Every Milan will certainly not tell you that. Pato faded entirely because of injuries, not Ibra. Every time he came back he would run and dribble against half the team until he got injured again.

You can argue what his best season was. But saying that he became a fringe scorer because of Ibra, when he had his highest scoring season in Europe playing next to him, is just wrong.

No he didn't.  His high scoring overall and in Europe was 2008-2009.  He had 18 total goals that year with 3 in CL.  In his only productive year with Ibra in 2010-2011, he had 16 goals and none in CL.


Ok I was wrong, I forgot to check CL. I was going by Serie A. The statement still stands.


sportsczy wrote:M99...  you guys were playing Pato wide while Ibra was going down the middle.  I remember very very well watching Pato trying to do as much as he could and he did ok later on.  But he was like Cavani there:  Uncomfortable and opportunistic when possible.  Unlike Cavani, he did manage some big goals despite it.  And then the injuries happened.

I remember PSG making a run at him because he wanted to be the regular CF in the summer of 2011... but his GF Barbara Berlu talked him out of it.  

I wish Ganso was still posting here and he could give a dissertation on it.

Look man, now Milan fans are telling you as well. Like M99, I too watched almost all his games. You are confusing teams. The 4-3-3 was mostly played BEFORE Allegri and Ibra came along. When the 2010/2011 season rolled in it was 4-3-1-2 for the most part with Pato playing centrally.  Thats like half the reason Berlusconi hired him.

In fact, after Milan beat arsenal at San Siro, Allegri tried to play a 4-3-3 in london due to injuries. It completely backfired and Milan lost the game and almost lost the tie. Ibra publicly slammed Allegri after the game saying that they played a system that they had no idea what to do and that he plays best in a 2-man line up top.

EDIT:

Here you go, I found an article from 2012 about it
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1716/champions-league/2012/03/07/2951541/ac-milans-ibrahimovic-i-felt-out-of-position-against-arsenal
Ibrahimovic: I felt out of position for the entire time that we played with three strikers
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Post by dostoevsky Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:24 am

It's worth noting however that while Ibrahimovic certainly preferred to play in a two striker system, he also stated that the partners he most liked working with were Cassano and Inzaghi. The former due to the fact that he created so much for Ibrahimovic himself and the latter because he occupied the defence and was happy to let Ibrahimovic roam and do what he liked. Pato looked the least at ease with Zlatan the whole season.

I'm not saying that Pato and Zlatan were dysfunctional but I certainly see what sports is trying to say and there were definitely concerns at the time about their partnership. Pato had a good goal scoring season but the team functioned more cohesively with either Cassano or Robinho who acted as second strikers and who naturally tend to work for a central team figure.
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Post by rincon Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:36 am

Yeah, we are not saying they were the best pair. Just that Pato definitely did not fade because of Ibra, just injuries. That Pato still had a great season in 2010/11 and was not a "fringe scorer". That Pato was absolutely not played "wide and out of position". And that Ibra was not ruining people's career at Milan. What sports is saying is more reminiscent of Balotelli-El Shaarawy. Now thats an example of a player fading (El Sha) when another comes on (Balotelli).

Allegri's Milan in the first 2 seasons had tons of options upfront. Robinho/Cassano next to Ibra/Pato, or Ibra next to Pato/Inzaghi. With Boateng/Seedorf behind them for example. And for the most part they all played well.
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Post by dostoevsky Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:47 am

Fair enough Thumbs up

I think there was more to the El Shaarawy issue when Balo arrived but this isn't the thread in which to discuss it.

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Post by chad4401 Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:59 pm

no he isn't that title goes the super goal scorer higuain, who always manages to miss 1v1's, even chokes in CL qualifiers and europa league... but at least he has more heart I guess Proud.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:05 pm

Unique wrote:Did somone say ibra is not lazy. Dude makes berbatov look like a work horse. Very Happy
Tbf he is 6"5 and weighs 210 pounds. It is not easy to move that much weight consistently accross an entire match. There is a reason long distance runners tend to be skinny, non-muscular in the upper body and short.
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Post by Kaladin Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:25 pm

I have to agree with M99 and Rincon here, Pato rarely if ever played on the wing in 10/11. His 08/09 is surely prolific, but for me personally 10/11 he was more clutch scoring against Napoli, Inter, Udinese and such
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Post by Casciavit Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:52 pm

Pato played alongside Ibra in a 4-3-1-2 as the 2 strikers. Allegri rarely if ever played him out wide. Leonardo played him as a RW, though.
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