Paul Pogba - Sell him or keep him ?

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Should we sell Pogba

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Post by rincon Mon May 09, 2016 9:06 pm

Lucifer wrote:Pogba is rare talent and guy loves Juve also is not primadonna.


That's one of the reasons I like him at Juve so much. For being outrageously talented he has always been down to earth. He has been acting like a veteran since he arrived at 18 years old.

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Post by Luca Mon May 09, 2016 9:22 pm

DeviAngel wrote:
Luca wrote:
DeviAngel wrote:Selling Pogba and getting Matic, Gomes

Exchange Coman for Gotze

Get Cavani Is good enough? I wouldn't sell Pogba but would you sell him for this scenario?


No, I would not because Gomes/Matic can be gotten without dropping Pogba. That leaves Gotze, to which I prefer Pogboom.

If you sell Pogba you need something like an Isco + Cavani signing, even a Verratti (but he is untouchable)


How about Pjanic + Matic + Gomez + Cavani ?


I would take a very simple approach in answering this and any other question regarding Pogba's transfer- a formula if you will

Let's take Juventus' most popular formation from this season

Mandzukic-Dybala
Sandro-Pogba-Marchisio-Khedira-Lichtsteiner
Chiellini-Bonucci-Barzagli
Buffon

Now remove Pogba and make a stronger 11... but you also have to assume that the ONLY way to strengthen the 11 is by removing Pogba. The problem is, this assumption is invalid. Juventus is not a broke team financially, and can afford squad improvements without selling their biggest asset.

Imagine selling a Ferrari to replace it with 3 volkswagens (no hate, I drive a Jetta)

If Pogba is sold, it is because he decides he wants to leave. Then we take the Zidane approach and maximize our profit and return

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Post by Valkyrja Mon May 09, 2016 10:07 pm

Luca wrote:
DeviAngel wrote:
Luca wrote:

No, I would not because Gomes/Matic can be gotten without dropping Pogba. That leaves Gotze, to which I prefer Pogboom.

If you sell Pogba you need something like an Isco + Cavani signing, even a Verratti (but he is untouchable)


How about Pjanic + Matic + Gomez + Cavani ?


I would take a very simple approach in answering this and any other question regarding Pogba's transfer- a formula if you will

Let's take Juventus' most popular formation from this season

Mandzukic-Dybala
Sandro-Pogba-Marchisio-Khedira-Lichtsteiner
Chiellini-Bonucci-Barzagli
Buffon

Now remove Pogba and make a stronger 11... but you also have to assume that the ONLY way to strengthen the 11 is by removing Pogba. The problem is, this assumption is invalid. Juventus is not a broke team financially, and can afford squad improvements without selling their biggest asset.

Imagine selling a Ferrari to replace it with 3 volkswagens (no hate, I drive a Jetta)

If Pogba is sold, it is because he decides he wants to leave. Then we take the Zidane approach and maximize our profit and return


Buffon
Rugani-Bonucci-Chiellini
RB-CM-Marchisio-CM-Sandro
Dybala-CF

RB ???
CM - Andre Gomes
CM - ???
CF - Cavani ?
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Post by Luca Mon May 09, 2016 10:10 pm

I know the 11 can be improved without Pogba, what I am saying is Pogba's exit does not necessitate that

We do not need to sell Pogba to fund other transfers

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Post by Andrew Mon May 09, 2016 10:23 pm

Luca wrote:We do not need to sell Pogba to fund other transfers


Amen.

It's the first time since Andrea Agnelli took over that we see Marotta being so confident in his comments about our transfer campaign.

2-3 seasons ago when Marotta was being asked if he planned to sign big names, all he was replying to those questions was that we cannot afford such players and that we follow the examples of Atletico and Dortumund.

Now you constantly see comments from the top management saying that we are on the same level with other top clubs, and that we will not sell any of our top players.

I'm not saying that we will start spending dumb money like City, PSG or Madrid do but we are definitely stronger than a couple of seasons ago.

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Post by Valkyrja Mon May 09, 2016 10:25 pm

Luca wrote:I know the 11 can be improved without Pogba, what I am saying is Pogba's exit does not necessitate that

We do not need to sell Pogba to fund other transfers


Of course. Reports say Gomes' transfer is done. A RB and an improvement on Mandzukic and Juve's first 11 is on par with Bayern's, Madrid's and Barca's imo
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Post by Luca Mon May 09, 2016 10:45 pm

Valkyrja wrote:
Luca wrote:I know the 11 can be improved without Pogba, what I am saying is Pogba's exit does not necessitate that

We do not need to sell Pogba to fund other transfers


Of course. Reports say Gomes' transfer is done. A RB and an improvement on Mandzukic and Juve's first 11 is on par with Bayern's, Madrid's and Barca's imo


I'm not sure if I would go that far to say that we would be on par, but definitely closer to that group of teams rather than further

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Post by rincon Mon May 09, 2016 10:56 pm

The only team with a better 11 all around is Bayern. Madrid only has Cristiano over us and Barca's trio makes them the most dangerous team.

Like Luca says, we have the money. No need to sell Pogba to go for targets that we can already afford. Unless we are signing someone like Neymar we don't need to sell.
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Post by DeviAngel Mon May 09, 2016 11:00 pm

Lucifer wrote:Why is this even question? Pogba should be untouchable at Juve imo. Why cut the Hen that gives golden eggs. Anyways Pjanic is only decent one, Matic is washed up milf, I wouldn't bet on Gomez and Cavani is he honorary member of Van Gal's fraud eleven. Pogba is rare talent and guy loves Juve also is not primadonna. I wouldn't swap him for anyone bar verratti imo.


just to spark up a debate. Only a fool would like Pogba to get sold
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Post by Luca Mon May 09, 2016 11:02 pm

rincon wrote:The only team with a better 11 all around is Bayern. Madrid only has Cristiano over us and Barca's trio makes them the most dangerous team.

Like Luca says, we have the money. No need to sell Pogba to go for targets that we can already afford. Unless we are signing someone like Neymar we don't need to sell.


Without going too deep into an analysis the only comparable positions are goalkeeper, central defense and central midfield

And our defense and goalkeeper are older. I'm also concerned with Chiellini's record of injury. Arguably our most important midfielder just went done with a serious injury and there is no degree of certainty in the way he returns.

But in any case, I will accept being 4/4 in that group, on our best day we can play with them surely and match ups mean everything

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Post by DeviAngel Tue May 10, 2016 1:32 am

Luca wrote:
rincon wrote:The only team with a better 11 all around is Bayern. Madrid only has Cristiano over us and Barca's trio makes them the most dangerous team.

Like Luca says, we have the money. No need to sell Pogba to go for targets that we can already afford. Unless we are signing someone like Neymar we don't need to sell.


Without going too deep into an analysis the only comparable positions are goalkeeper, central defense and central midfield

And our defense and goalkeeper are older. I'm also concerned with Chiellini's record of injury. Arguably our most important midfielder just went done with a serious injury and there is no degree of certainty in the way he returns.

But in any case, I will accept being 4/4 in that group, on our best day we can play with them surely and match ups mean everything


RB, CB, CM and TQ and we are set (if we keep all players)

Tonelli, Widmer (considering our great relations with Udinese) we can get him on loan, Gomes and Pastore/Gotze/?/ and we are set.
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Post by lucianomoggi Tue May 10, 2016 8:24 am

yeah, the midfield should be improved as devi said

CM, TQ can be good
but it doesn't have to be a TQ , it can also be a WINGER- like NEDVED, RONALDINHO,

--NEDVED ----- MANDZ ------ DYBALA -----
---------- POGBA ------ GOMES ---------
--------------- MARCHISIO ---------------
SANDRO- CHIELL - BONNUCI -- LICHTAINER
----------------- BUFFON --------------------

the idea is to have a HIGH QUALITY midfielder who is good on: TEAMWORK, ASSISTS, SHOTS, CROSSING so he improves our game we get positive results more effortless

a winger like CUADRADO may not be extreme good on teamwork and assists but it was a different thing with NEDVED and RONALDINHO if you have those kind of guys there is no need for a player who sits behind strikers , someone like POGBA can work on that space and shoot the ball and do his things

is just that when you don't have that midfielder who is magical on team-work , whatsoever you do it always seems that something is missing because we are used to watch beautiful games of the ones like RONALDINHo, NEDVED, ZIDANE, MESSI, and now it may never seem good enough when you look at players like ISCO, but there is nothing we can do about that but simply choose what MARKET gives

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Post by Luca Tue May 10, 2016 3:54 pm

DeviAngel wrote:
Luca wrote:
rincon wrote:The only team with a better 11 all around is Bayern. Madrid only has Cristiano over us and Barca's trio makes them the most dangerous team.

Like Luca says, we have the money. No need to sell Pogba to go for targets that we can already afford. Unless we are signing someone like Neymar we don't need to sell.


Without going too deep into an analysis the only comparable positions are goalkeeper, central defense and central midfield

And our defense and goalkeeper are older. I'm also concerned with Chiellini's record of injury. Arguably our most important midfielder just went done with a serious injury and there is no degree of certainty in the way he returns.

But in any case, I will accept being 4/4 in that group, on our best day we can play with them surely and match ups mean everything


RB, CB, CM and TQ and we are set (if we keep all players)

Tonelli, Widmer (considering our great relations with Udinese) we can get him on loan, Gomes and Pastore/Gotze/?/ and we are set.


I think its very likely we lose a forward which then will have to be replaced- Morata being the most likely, Zaza also a possibility

CM is necessary now more than ever because of Marchisio's injury and Khedira's record of injury

RB is a big priority for me, it is the weakest point in the starting 11 when everyone is healthy and at their best

A CB like Tonelli would do, I believe in Rugani to be even better next season

TQ is a position that has eluded us for several years, looking at the market- I am unsure who is available and also what will happen but I would like a TQ signing, or at the very least a more creative CM option

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Post by Luca Wed May 18, 2016 6:16 pm


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Post by lucianomoggi Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:25 am

JUVENTUS want 160m for POGBA
I think this is a good message to all those who think to weaken our team that we don't want to weaken , if you give enough money so we can strengthen our team OK we have a deal but giving pogba for less than 100 m is not a good idea because with the money you can hardly get a pair like Gomes + Lukaku or maybe you cannot

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Post by futbol_bill Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:31 pm

It's the asking price, not what they will likely get, plus 40m of that is for his agent. 120m is what club is asking! Stay tuned, flo has the money, but they are discussing fee + players + the 30m they are about to pay for Morata.

Meanwhile they are already negotiating his salary with agent!
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Post by sportsczy Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:26 pm

Raiola is such a pig... how can he ask for a 40 mil fee for himself ffs. Typical agent fees run at 6-10% of the transfer. So for 120 mil fee, he should be getting 12 mil max.
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Post by Adit Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:29 pm

Or it's an adjustment between Pogba and Riola.

Like the Neymar transfer where a huge 'agent fee' was given to his own father. Part of this agent fee goes to Pogba surely.. No other explanation for this 40 mill figure Riola is asking. He doesn't own Pogba, an agent is just a convenience not a necessity. You can fire him at any time. Agent isn't even required for a transfer. This 40 million sure seems like an agreement between Riola and Pogba.
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Post by S Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:58 pm

sportsczy wrote:Raiola is such a pig... how can he ask for a 40 mil fee for himself ffs. Typical agent fees run at 6-10% of the transfer. So for 120 mil fee, he should be getting 12 mil max.


There's an agreement with Juve that he gets 20% of the transfer fee if Pogba gets sold so thats why we're probably asking more.

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Post by dostoevsky Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:37 am

Raiola is asking for what? rofl rofl rofl

The absolute nerve of this guy. rofl rofl rofl

Anyway, there's no way you should sell Pogba. Your aim as a club is to win the Champions League. You don't do that by strengthening your direct opposition. Your market has been going along very well already this summer. Even an enormous transfer fee is barely worth selling for when you consider the obscene prices being quoted for average players like Lukaku and Gomes.
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Post by sportsczy Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:16 am

S wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Raiola is such a pig... how can he ask for a 40 mil fee for himself ffs. Typical agent fees run at 6-10% of the transfer. So for 120 mil fee, he should be getting 12 mil max.


There's an agreement with Juve that he gets 20% of the transfer fee if Pogba gets sold so thats why we're probably asking more.

Even if Juve gets 20%.... that still leaves 32 mil for himself which is beyond outrageous. I hope he has some kind of agreement with Pogba where he splits the fee because that's the only way it even makes remotely sense.
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Post by S Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:45 am

dostoevsky wrote:Raiola is asking for what? rofl rofl rofl

The absolute nerve of this guy. rofl rofl rofl

Anyway, there's no way you should sell Pogba. Your aim as a club is to win the Champions League. You don't do that by strengthening your direct opposition. Your market has been going along very well already this summer. Even an enormous transfer fee is barely worth selling for when you consider the obscene prices being quoted for average players like Lukaku and Gomes.


When we bought him on a free transfer, we had an agreement with Raiola apparently that he gets 20% of the transfer fee if Pogba gets sold. We were in a less bargaining position then compared to now so i can understand the club doing such a deal back then which is basically on Raiola's terms.

The thing about Pogba right now is the absolutely obscene demands from both club and Pogba's agent. Raiola wants 12-13M net wage, only Cristiano earns  double figures in Madrid. And Juventus are demanding fees in the range of 140-160M which is obscene. The demands are so high that even the rich clubs would be put off by it so unless the Madrid's of the world feel ready to pay those kind of sums and wages, Pogba will stay at Juventus and he's happy to do so. So we're kind of protected in a sense. He's not going to request for a transfer just so he can 1-2M more elsewhere, it would have to be a big bump in wages. This is why Barca wont get him imo atleast for now.
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Post by Andrew Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:10 am

120 + Kroos. Imagine how much fap we would have to do...on a Marotta's pic Proud

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Post by sportsczy Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:25 pm

S...  you're completely misreading the situation.  It's going to get done at around 120 mil, no extra players...  and Bale + Ronaldo make far more than that in terms of wages.  Ronaldo makes 19+ mil net and Bale makes 16.5 mil net.  In fact, Kroos makes 10.3 mil net so it's not that far off in terms of gap if Madrid were to sign Pogba and sell Kroos.  

The whole Kroos thing to Juve is made up btw because there's no way Juve are going to pay his wages...  only EPL teams and the super rich clubs can.
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Post by lucianomoggi Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:04 pm

if POGBA leaves I would choose ANDRE GOMES for the substitution

ANDRE GOMES looks like a guy who has some talent but he can also defend really good because physically good


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Post by S Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:25 pm

sportsczy wrote:S...  you're completely misreading the situation.  It's going to get done at around 120 mil, no extra players...  and Bale + Ronaldo make far more than that in terms of wages.  Ronaldo makes 19+ mil net and Bale makes 16.5 mil net.  In fact, Kroos makes 10.3 mil net so it's not that far off in terms of gap if Madrid were to sign Pogba and sell Kroos.  

The whole Kroos thing to Juve is made up btw because there's no way Juve are going to pay his wages...  only EPL teams and the super rich clubs can.


Bale makes 300K a week. Which is about 11M EU net. Kroos certainly doesnt make that much.

You are completely exaggerating figures to suit your argument.


Last edited by S on Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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