Prime R9 vs Messi

Curtinho wrote:...and Messi's ability to cope with the physical demands of the sport at the top level are a result of HGH use, in fact he has a higher level of physical ability to the vast majority of people and footballers because of HGH use.

Messis teammates have claimed that has some sort of an supernatural ability when it comes to regaining fitness after suffering an injury.

Could be the HGH or a pact with the Devil. I personally opt for the latter.

@Lucifer

The reality is that it doesn't matter. I know a few people that are at a very high competitive level in different sports and the story is the same in all of them. The majority (note, not all) of top level athletes are on performance enhancers of some kind or another. Most of them cycle properly or use things that are as of yet undetectable. Keep in mind that anti-doping, like any defensive structure, is generally several steps behind the dopers as it's very hard to predict what is going to be used to circumvent the rules.

That's not to take anything away from these athletes. Skill is still not bought or gifted through drug use. It may give an advantage in training and potential level of athleticism but you still need to put the work in, and you still need to know how to develop and nurture your skill and talent.

Neutropin wrote:

FennecFox7 wrote:

Neutropin wrote:


How much do you know about performance enhancing drugs? Nothing judging by your comments, google my username. As someone who uses steroids everything he said about steroids is wrong

Bullshit. You think R9 could not have snuck a cycle of test Susp or prop with the doctors at his disposal?? To cut he probably was on some kind of tren/anavar/winny mix for a bit along with test to kill his bodyfat. Players are rarely drug tested hard in football. If you knew anything about the juice then you would start admitting that theres a chance he did it.

At 5'11 1/2 and 185, yes that is very big for a sport where you run 7 miles a game and train aerobically.

Messi used HGH to get his levels back to normal. long term hgh abuse needs to be put in very high doses and combined with roids to make a difference. R9's steroid use is very likely. His power and acceleration were unreal. the dudes frame was tiny and he could not hold that much muscle naturally, but it stayed on due to the comeback of his hypothyroidism.

the fact that you suggested an athlete would use winny or tren ever shows that you know absolutely nothing about steroids. Winny absolutly kills your joints, litterally the worst thing for them, no one who knows anything about steroids would ever give winny to someone who has to run. As for tren that totally kills cardio. He would not be able to run, not to mention his bp would be through the roof, also heart rate would be way to high for him to be able to run for more than like 1-2 minutes. Not to mention the night sweats you get from tren, he would not be able to sleep and would never be in the right place metally to play football

DO some research, just becuase you know a few names doesnt make you knowledgable

Also the clearence time for HGH is 12 hours tops and there are new types that are undetectable by a drug test so it would be no problem for messi to use them in large dosages.

Lastly steroids that give you an atheltic advantage in football dont cause ligament damage so I dont want to hear that again.

You're right about winny killing your joints. that's why it would be done during the off season, where the stress placed is much less.

Tren does not kill your cardio at lower doses. And the small offset in cardio would not outweigh the fat partitioning effects of tren, pretty much ripping the fat off of R9.

Actually even with the slight insomnia caused by tren, he ironically would not feel that tired playing.. that's the strength of that anabolic.

No, steroids make you develop muscle MUCH faster then your tendons and ligaments do. That's why you deload often on a cycle.. I thought you knew about that?

Curtinho wrote:

Harmonica wrote:Yeah, that's why he's smaller, has had more injuries than most and is less defined than average player, in his 20's and even today. What a bird brain.

So what you're saying is that he would be as fast, have just as strong a base, and just as capable of playing football today had he not taken HGH? Also 5'7 is average for an Argentinian male, and you could just as easily argue his injuries are caused by the rigour of the sport and the amount of fouls he takes. As far as not being defined...



Please sir, you are grasping. I'm not even decrying the use of PEDs tbh, since the vast majority of top level athletes use them. It's just a fact that Messi would not be the best player in history without the use of HGH -- he is far from natural (PEDs don't increase your skill directly, but they give a vast advantage in developing that skill, btw).

he's barely bigger and just as cut as me when I was like 15 and you supplement that to HGH use? Clearly you have no idea what HGH abuse truly looks like

Here's the deal. HgH is not anabolic like steroids are. to even SEE results from a bodybuilding prospective, you need to be on a good amount for a few months at least. If say, messis hgh levels were way below normal, then why would injecting hgh to normalize him give him an advantage in ANY way?

FennecFox7 wrote:

Neutropin wrote:

FennecFox7 wrote:


Bullshit. You think R9 could not have snuck a cycle of test Susp or prop with the doctors at his disposal?? To cut he probably was on some kind of tren/anavar/winny mix for a bit along with test to kill his bodyfat. Players are rarely drug tested hard in football. If you knew anything about the juice then you would start admitting that theres a chance he did it.

At 5'11 1/2 and 185, yes that is very big for a sport where you run 7 miles a game and train aerobically.

Messi used HGH to get his levels back to normal. long term hgh abuse needs to be put in very high doses and combined with roids to make a difference. R9's steroid use is very likely. His power and acceleration were unreal. the dudes frame was tiny and he could not hold that much muscle naturally, but it stayed on due to the comeback of his hypothyroidism.

the fact that you suggested an athlete would use winny or tren ever shows that you know absolutely nothing about steroids. Winny absolutly kills your joints, litterally the worst thing for them, no one who knows anything about steroids would ever give winny to someone who has to run. As for tren that totally kills cardio. He would not be able to run, not to mention his bp would be through the roof, also heart rate would be way to high for him to be able to run for more than like 1-2 minutes. Not to mention the night sweats you get from tren, he would not be able to sleep and would never be in the right place metally to play football

DO some research, just becuase you know a few names doesnt make you knowledgable

Also the clearence time for HGH is 12 hours tops and there are new types that are undetectable by a drug test so it would be no problem for messi to use them in large dosages.

Lastly steroids that give you an atheltic advantage in football dont cause ligament damage so I dont want to hear that again.

You're right about winny killing your joints. that's why it would be done during the off season, where the stress placed is much less.

Tren does not kill your cardio at lower doses. And the small offset in cardio would not outweigh the fat partitioning effects of tren, pretty much ripping the fat off of R9.

Actually even with the slight insomnia caused by tren, he ironically would not feel that tired playing.. that's the strength of that anabolic.

No, steroids make you develop muscle MUCH faster then your tendons and ligaments do. That's why you deload often on a cycle.. I thought you knew about that?

you clearly dont know what you are talking about. Tren does rip fat off ROFL, and winny even in off season would never be touched by an athlete. Tren is very usefull for bodybuilding but an athlete would never touch it, also if you are using it in small enough doses for it not to kill cardio you might as well not be using it at all.

You still have to diet even if you use steroids, and losing weight is usually not a problem for someone who does as much cardio as a football player so they would not need steroids to lose weight.

Also your logic does not make sense, why would he use steroids and then suddenly stop? He could just carry on his entire career. Also his cycles in the offseason would not benifit him during the regular season if he stopped. He would need steroids most to give strenght and recovery while he is playing competitive games week in week out. Do you know that you are far weaker when you stop steroids than if you just remained natural in the first place.

Overall, you're just being a hater

FennecFox7 wrote:

Curtinho wrote:

Harmonica wrote:Yeah, that's why he's smaller, has had more injuries than most and is less defined than average player, in his 20's and even today. What a bird brain.

So what you're saying is that he would be as fast, have just as strong a base, and just as capable of playing football today had he not taken HGH? Also 5'7 is average for an Argentinian male, and you could just as easily argue his injuries are caused by the rigour of the sport and the amount of fouls he takes. As far as not being defined...



Please sir, you are grasping. I'm not even decrying the use of PEDs tbh, since the vast majority of top level athletes use them. It's just a fact that Messi would not be the best player in history without the use of HGH -- he is far from natural (PEDs don't increase your skill directly, but they give a vast advantage in developing that skill, btw).

he's barely bigger and just as cut as me when I was like 15 and you supplement that to HGH use? Clearly you have no idea what HGH abuse truly looks like

Here's the deal. HgH is not anabolic like steroids are. to even SEE results from a bodybuilding prospective, you need to be on a good amount for a few months at least. If say, messis hgh levels were way below normal, then why would injecting hgh to normalize him give him an advantage in ANY way?

Ronaldo didnt even get caught using steroids so I dont know why you are just assuming that he was using them and Messi isnt. Unless you know for sure that one used steroids and the other didnt its pointless to even have this debate.

these steroid allegations are ridiculous. its one thing when a player gets caught. but this guy hasn't even been accused, so for somebody to bring up steroid talk like you're the one giving him the injections is pushing it. besides, its really tough to accuse ronaldo of all people of steroid use; the most fit he ever was in his career was at psv; we're not talking about incredible hulk here.....same goes for messi; i know extremely little about the whole growth hormone thing, i've paid little to no interest in it, cos i figure if something illegal's been going on, there would be a ban. they still have drug testing; its fairly ridiculous in spain- but fifa, uefa, also carry out their own tests. i don't like accusing people for such unless its confirmed....just cos lance armstrong was guilty doesn't mean we accuse any and everyone for steroid use

now i will say, there was something very suspicious about the judge in the fuentes case that really bothered me. where in 2013 the judge declared all the blood samples be destroyed,....that should raise eyebrows, but it seems people have pushed that under the radar

I'd rather have Messi on my team simply because he won't be fat in the next years.

Longetivity is just as important.

I wanted to write a longer post, but most have already commented stuff, so yeah Messi.

Steroids vs HGH
I voted for HGH because he is more than just striker and can take free kicks

if it were not for doping Messi would not even be a football player, he is not a natural talent, was built by medicine.

Messi legs are too short and his explosiveness is not natural. I also read that the GH boost reflections so it would explain its rapidity.

Killer wrote:if it were not for doping Messi would not even be a football player, he is not a natural talent, was built by medicine.

Messi legs are too short and his explosiveness is not natural. I also read that the GH boost reflections so it would explain its rapidity.

This post is so bad that even Juve section wouldn't upvote it

Ffs

With HGH Messi has no physical advantage over other players.Alves would beat him in street fight
About dribbling he was dribbling whole team even before HGH treatement. Just watch his videos at the age of 10

Cant help but feel nostalgic at times being a long time football fans, but came across this R9 nutmeg video, just absolutely unbelievable skills:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFxBlsM6CMQ

and he was just way beyond everyone else technically and physically. Although his main weakness was probably more individual, but then being a striker back then was probably focused less on team play like it is today.

Then went on the search a bit of people's opinion comparing to Messi and surprised to be quite a lot of ppl did that already:

https://madridgalacticos.com/2015/10/08/messis-73-or-brazilian-ronaldos-47-who-really-scored-more/
https://www.quora.com/Was-Brazilian-Ronaldo-much-more-talented-and-better-than-the-likes-of-Messi-and-Cristiano-Ronaldo
http://genius.com/discussions/153040-Comparison-between-messi-and-brazilian-ronaldo

Everyone has their opinion but just curious again as to what others may think now? To expand it a bit too, what about R9 compared with R7?

Finally, xouldnt help it but just this video randomly, just to troll fakenaldo's fans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCTjKEFg4Xc

Impossible to compare R9 with CR as the gap in innante talent level is huge. The only kind of footballing form that can be compared to R9 is Messi.

l still not finished watching that 256 nutmegs video I just posted since its sooo long with so many, but I just keep going OMG thats impossible piece of skill, how it that possible, WTF!? etc., as I get my way through all the skills, Messi has been the player thats consistently made me do that, and I really think R9 is the last player who is able to do that to ppl when watching. Tbf, C7 can do that at times too.

sportsczy wrote:It was a different game when R9 played in his prime...  Tackles were harder, refs were more tolerant of rough play and didn't hand out cards like candy, etc.  The game wasn't geared to emphasize goalscoring as much as today with the rules.  Just as an example, the wording of the offside rule was significantly changed in 2005 to allow a lot more play to remain active.  That was a MASSIVE change in the rules that allowed exponentially more goalscoring chances.

So i think you really need to consider pre 2005 stats and post 2005 stats.

At their peak, R9 and Messi were the same imo.  Problem is that R9's peak was very short while Messi has sustained his for a long time.  So Messi is obviously the better player due to his career being far more productive.

Spot on. Was going to post something similar.

I don't understand why comparing him to Messi tho.

Prime Ronaldo was more similar to Suarez as in a proficient goalscorer that would burn his marker through slick ball control and first meters acceleration, and he more often than not would humiliate defenders thanks to his technique, fast execution, unpredictability and relentless tenacity.

Messi is that, but he's also capable of 1000 things more. He's the universal footballer, he's the goat, he is football. Maradona is the closest player to Messi in the history of football and he still pales in comparison.

Real Ronaldo was miles better than Fakenaldo, but even Messi's average is higher than Ronaldo's prime.

EDIT: damn didn't remember that I already ended debate in page one and two, what a massacre.

Katy Perry wrote:Maradona is the closest player to Messi in the history of football and he still pales in comparison.

And who is the best RB of all time, sir?

I'd go with Cafu. Lahm and Zambrotta as honourable mentions.

Thuram and Alves were much better than Lahm

Brazilian Ronaldo is unbelievably overrated. Whatever. Most posters grew up with him so they'll always say he's amazing.

There's no comparison. Everything Ronaldo could do, Messi can, and he is a much, much better passer, creator, free-kick taker, set piece taker, etc.