Prime R9 vs Messi

I've seen this comparison pop up many times, and even some intelligent posters like Dani seriously going with R9.

Ronaldo in his prime was a monster, no doubt about it, but I just can't put him above Messi. Messi could do everything he did in terms of goalscoring, but he also has better passing than Ronaldo could dream of. I just can't see the comparison. Since some people actually seriously thought R9 was better though, I wanted to make a thread to see the general opinion of everyone here.

R9 is surrounded by some unreal nostalgy. Brazilian star player marketed by Nike + Perez Galactico marketing + childhood hero for most people around the current age of 20 - 30 = ultimate commercial footballer. This is how R9 looked by the time he was 28:





At the highest level he had one special season in 96/97 for Barca and a handful of games at Inter before he got wrecked. That plus the 2002 WC comeback (worst quality World Cup of all time, his goals were mostly perfectly served tap-ins against awful teams for which Cristiano Ronaldo would get mocked today) is the entire "R9 myth". Messi is playing at "Ronaldo 96/97" level for about 10 seasons now and then some.

futbol wrote:R9 is surrounded by some unreal nostalgy. Brazilian star player marketed by Nike + Perez Galactico marketing + childhood hero for most people around the current age of 20 - 30 = ultimate commercial footballer. This is how R9 looked by the time he was 28:





At the highest level he had one special season in 96/97 for Barca and a handful of games at Inter before he got wrecked. That plus the 2002 WC comeback (worst quality World Cup of all time, his goals were mostly perfectly served tap-ins against awful teams for which Cristiano Ronaldo would get mocked today) is the entire "R9 myth". Messi is playing at "Ronaldo 96/97" level for about 10 seasons now and then some.

thats why this is about prime R9 smh, R9 was at the very least as good a finisher, had the same if not higher ball control and dribbling, could beat way more defenders than messi, could hold the ball surrounded by more defenders, was faster, stronger, and he accually had a huge influence in the world cup.

Before you say that the brazillian world cup team was great, so was the argentine team.

Could beat way more defenders than Messi.

Messi , Let's be serious.

Ronaldo suffered from hypothyroidism.. That's why he was fat tbh, I thought people knew this by now

I think Ronaldo matches or exceeds Messi everywhere except passing and versatility, but that is due to the positions they play.. So Messi is more valuable to a team

Ronaldo was the greatest football prodigy ever though and will stay that way until someone wins the Ballon D'or at a younger age, while doing similar things on the pitch

futbol wrote:Could beat way more defenders than Messi.

Almost fell from my chair when I read that. In WC98 when Ronaldo still supposedly was in his prime (on steroids) managed to beat 16 players in the whole tournament in 7 games.

Players beat by dribble (opta)

Messi WC10 34 (5), 6,80
Messi CA11 32 (4), 8,00
Messi WC14 46 (7), 6,57
Messi CA15 43 (6), 7,17
Messi total 155 (22), 7,05 players per game

Ronaldo WC98 16 (7), 2,29 players per game

Pick any version of Messi, or even career average, and it's not even remotely close comparison. Messi career average is over 3x Ronaldo's prime ffs.  

i'd take prime ronaldinho over prime r9 too but that means fk all if it lasted a day, overall messi is the better player because he is year in and year out, even in barca's worst season he numerically peaked

doesn't have a hot or cold season, until last season he only kept progressing his numbers and now he is changing his game to more of a playmaker showing his versatility and flexibility

Prime Ronaldo for me, Lesawgg said it all he had a thyroid problem that was he was out of shape, I would like to see what Messi would look like if he were to suffer the injuries R9 suffered

Why would u "like to see Messi to suffer injuries R9 had"? Just to prove ur point? Well that's not at all disturbing imo

Those mythical primes and injuries. Anytime someone brings those up, you know that you're dealing with deluded and ignorant fan. Ronaldo has himself to blame for his injuries using steroids at such young age. Ligament problems, heart-attacks and muscular edge, everything pointing on steroid abuse.

http://www.4dfoot.com/2013/02/09/doping-in-football-fifty-years-of-evidence/

1990’s – The sorry fate of Ronaldo

Ronaldo PSV doping

In the public’s eye the Brazilian Ronaldo ruined his own career through overeating, but perhaps an even bigger problem that prevented Ronaldo from delivering on his promise were his terrible knee injuries. At 21, he had won the Ballon d’Or twice and looked set to become one of the all-time greats. But repeated tendon ruptures ended that dream. According to Bernardino Santi, anti-doping official at the Brazilian football Federation, Ronaldo’s injuries were no coincidence. Doping use was to blame.

"I spoke to some colleagues in Holland. They told me that Ronaldo, who was very fragile at the time, received steroids during his period at PSV. As a result his muscles grew more than his tendons were capable of sustaining."

Santi was promptly fired by the Brazilian football association, but similar statements have been made by Italian author Enzo Palladini, who wrote a biography on Ronaldo.

http://www.foxcrawl.com/2012/02/03/...ear-death-experience-at-1998-world-cup-final/

"Professor Doctor Bruno Caru, president of the Italian Society of Cardiology in Sports, re-checked the medical records of former Brazilian striker and during a program broadcast by “Mediaset” the doctor explained that the puzzling collapse was not related to epilepsy, but to heart issues, i.e. heart attack."

Harmonica>>>>>>>>Interpol imo

Harmonica wrote:Ronaldo has himself to blame for his injuries using steroids at such young age. Ligament problems, heart-attacks and muscular edge, everything pointing on steroid abuse.

It can also be clearly shown in the stats.

Trying to ruin him with those conspiracy theories

Pirloisjesus wrote:Why would u "like to see Messi to suffer injuries R9 had"? Just to prove ur point? Well that's not at all disturbing imo

You're right it is disturbing, ii don't want Messi or anyone else to get injured, i was just stating that it would be difficult for Messi to mantain his level if those injuries happen to him.

Are steroids worse than HGH or something?

HGH = GOAT
Steroids = Cheater

I need a list of approved Harmonica substances.

Curtinho wrote:Are steroids worse than HGH or something?

HGH = Goat
Steroids = Cheater

I need a list of approved Harmonica substances.

Other is medically accepted and other is doping, other is getting to level of a normal human and other is getting advantage to normal humans. Come on, it's not that hard to differentiate the two. Even for a Liverpool fan.

Claudio84 wrote:

Pirloisjesus wrote:Why would u "like to see Messi to suffer injuries R9 had"? Just to prove ur point? Well that's not at all disturbing imo

You're right it is disturbing, ii don't want Messi or anyone else to get injured, i was just stating that it would be difficult for Messi to mantain his level if those injuries happen to him.

Anyone but danilo

Harmonica wrote:

Curtinho wrote:Are steroids worse than HGH or something?

HGH = Goat
Steroids = Cheater

I need a list of approved Harmonica substances.

Other is medically accepted and other is doping, other is getting to level of a normal human and other is getting advantage to normal humans. Come on, it's not that hard to differentiate the two. Even for a Liverpool fan.

You realize of course that steroids were created for medical usage, right? Maybe Ronaldo couldn't train to the levels of another professional because of his natural born laziness or genetic inclination to get fat, thus needed steroids for the added recovery? Where do we draw the line on which drugs we allow use of in order to aid someone who is naturally incapable of doing something to allow them to be 'on the same level' (except they're no longer on the same level as they're using unnatural means to attain that level).

Please, HGH is worse than steroids when referring to 'doping'.

Curtinho wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

Curtinho wrote:Are steroids worse than HGH or something?

HGH = Goat
Steroids = Cheater

I need a list of approved Harmonica substances.

Other is medically accepted and other is doping, other is getting to level of a normal human and other is getting advantage to normal humans. Come on, it's not that hard to differentiate the two. Even for a Liverpool fan.

You realize of course that steroids were created for medical usage, right? Maybe Ronaldo couldn't train to the levels of another professional because of his natural born laziness or genetic inclination to get fat, thus needed steroids for the added recovery? Where do we draw the line on which drugs we allow use of in order to aid someone who is naturally incapable of doing something to allow them to be 'on the same level' (except they're no longer on the same level as they're using unnatural means to attain that level).

Please, HGH is worse than steroids when referring to 'doping'.

Awful analogy. LSD was developed for depression, I don't see anyone taking those because of that.

HGH treatment is well established and its purpose is to get you to level of normal human, steroids lift your testosterone levels beyond normal humans. Just compare young Messi and young Roidnaldo.

Not sure if you're an idiot Curtinho or just trolling Harmonica

Harmonica wrote:Those mythical primes and injuries. Anytime someone brings those up, you know that you're dealing with deluded and ignorant fan. Ronaldo has himself to blame for his injuries using steroids at such young age. Ligament problems, heart-attacks and muscular edge, everything pointing on steroid abuse.

http://www.4dfoot.com/2013/02/09/doping-in-football-fifty-years-of-evidence/

1990’s – The sorry fate of Ronaldo

Ronaldo PSV doping

In the public’s eye the Brazilian Ronaldo ruined his own career through overeating, but perhaps an even bigger problem that prevented Ronaldo from delivering on his promise were his terrible knee injuries. At 21, he had won the Ballon d’Or twice and looked set to become one of the all-time greats. But repeated tendon ruptures ended that dream. According to Bernardino Santi, anti-doping official at the Brazilian football Federation, Ronaldo’s injuries were no coincidence. Doping use was to blame.

"I spoke to some colleagues in Holland. They told me that Ronaldo, who was very fragile at the time, received steroids during his period at PSV. As a result his muscles grew more than his tendons were capable of sustaining."

Santi was promptly fired by the Brazilian football association, but similar statements have been made by Italian author Enzo Palladini, who wrote a biography on Ronaldo.

http://www.foxcrawl.com/2012/02/03/...ear-death-experience-at-1998-world-cup-final/

"Professor Doctor Bruno Caru, president of the Italian Society of Cardiology in Sports, re-checked the medical records of former Brazilian striker and during a program broadcast by “Mediaset” the doctor explained that the puzzling collapse was not related to epilepsy, but to heart issues, i.e. heart attack."

such a moronic post. Research into steroids before you try to ruin a great mans reputation.

Ronaldo did not even have a large amount of muscle, you know who probably does use steroids r7. How come his ligaments are perfectly fine at his 30s. Plus messi uses hgh which helps with injuries so I dont even understand your comparison here.

the article you posted was full of shit and the writer had no knowledge of steroids. Do you know how many different steroids there are? Some of them dry you out and make you look more muscular, some of them bloat you and are good for your joints, even regular testosterone is good for your joints and ligaments.

Anyhow I wont respond to you again, you are the most ignorant person I have ever seen on forums. Dont comment on things you know nothing about

Also just to point out in all likelihood almost every top professional athlete is on steroids considering the money and level of competitivness at that level

Problem with Messi, and it's not going away, continues to be that he's such a huge NT flop.

He just is.

Cruijf wrote:Not sure if you're an idiot Curtinho or just trolling Harmonica

He asked some perfectly reasonable questions