Where does England's forward line rank?

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:00 pm

S wrote:You call Lukaku crap but when's the last time Rooney even performed to a half-decent standard in an NT tournament ?


Where did i call Lukaku crap lol?

Also Roonay has performed plenty of times, it's just half decent for him is to expect to be one of the best players in the tournament.

He's had plenty of half decent performances at international level in isolation when you ignore expectations and hype.

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Post by S Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:05 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
S wrote:You call Lukaku crap but when's the last time Rooney even performed to a half-decent standard in an NT tournament ?


Where did i call Lukaku crap lol?

Also Roonay has performed plenty of times, it's just half decent for him is to expect to be one of the best players in the tournament.

He's had plenty of half decent performances at international level in isolation when you ignore expectations and hype.


You said Lukaku is crap at NT level while he's just had his best season of his career(at club level) thus far.He's only a 21 yr old kid and you're writing him off too soon.

Regarding Rooney,ofcourse we have to consider hype and expectations because of how good he's been at club level in previous yrs.Last 3 international tournaments,Rooney has been largely subpar.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:08 pm

His age is irrelevant considering he's been playing international football since he was 16 and has a very poor 11 goals in 45 games.

Doubt he'll magically get better tbh.
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Post by rincon Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:24 pm

Belgium has Hazard, Lukaku, Batshuayi, Mertens, Benteke. I would take them over England's. I know Hazard is in bad form, but he is still class.
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Post by rincon Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:26 pm

S wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
S wrote:You call Lukaku crap but when's the last time Rooney even performed to a half-decent standard in an NT tournament ?


Where did i call Lukaku crap lol?

Also Roonay has performed plenty of times, it's just half decent for him is to expect to be one of the best players in the tournament.

He's had plenty of half decent performances at international level in isolation when you ignore expectations and hype.


You said Lukaku is crap at NT level while he's just had his best season of his career(at club level) thus far.He's only a 21 yr old kid and you're writing him off too soon.

Regarding Rooney,ofcourse we have to consider hype and expectations because of how good he's been at club level in previous yrs.Last 3 international tournaments,Rooney has been largely subpar.


Rooney was absolutely not subpar in the last euros. He looked miles ahead of the rest of the english team.against Italy...

and for Germany:
Reus, Muller and Gotze is a forward line.
that>>england's
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Post by McAgger Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:49 pm

Benteke is still a decent player if a side decides to build around him.

It won't happen at Liverpool for him but I'm sure he could return to his early Villa form for some other team.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:37 pm

S wrote:Muller and Reus dont count as WC forwards ?

I dont understand the point of this thread in that case.


Reus sure, but is Muller a forward? I get that he plays on the wing for Germany, but in my mind I have trouble thinking of him as one.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:03 pm

Müller is a 9 with a margin of error of 2.
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Post by rincon Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:10 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
S wrote:Muller and Reus dont count as WC forwards ?

I dont understand the point of this thread in that case.


Reus sure, but is Muller a forward? I get that he plays on the wing for Germany, but in my mind I have trouble thinking of him as one.


Where do see Muller then? hmm
He basically plays wherever he is needed from attacking mid to CF and everything in between
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Post by Kick Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:59 pm

I'd call Muller a forward, for sure.

As for the actual topic, I don't think England's front three are going to be very useful with the scrubs they have in midfield and defence. They won't do well, like always.

So I don't rank them highly, at all. Brazil, Argentina, Urugauy, France, Germany > England.
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Post by Onyx Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:48 pm

Muller is a forward because he's a goalscorer imo. hmm

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Post by Cruijf Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:02 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:His age is irrelevant considering he's been playing international football since he was 16 and has a very poor 11 goals in 45 games.

Doubt he'll magically get better tbh.


Age is irrelevant? Pretty sure Messi had a similar international record at 21 Laughing
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Post by S Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:31 am

Cruijf wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:His age is irrelevant considering he's been playing international football since he was 16 and has a very poor 11 goals in 45 games.

Doubt he'll magically get better tbh.


Age is irrelevant? Pretty sure Messi had a similar international record at 21 Laughing


Yeah,just made a little research on his NT record.

13 goals in his first 44 apps rofl

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:14 pm

rincon wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
S wrote:Muller and Reus dont count as WC forwards ?

I dont understand the point of this thread in that case.


Reus sure, but is Muller a forward? I get that he plays on the wing for Germany, but in my mind I have trouble thinking of him as one.


Where do see Muller then? hmm
He basically plays wherever he is needed from attacking mid to CF and everything in between
To me he's a midfielder, like everyone else that plays for Pep Proud
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Post by M99 Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:23 pm

Only counting CFs, is England's depth better than Spain? Kane, Rooney, Vardy vs Costa, Morata, Nolito. I think that is a very interesting battle.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:26 pm

S wrote:
Cruijf wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:His age is irrelevant considering he's been playing international football since he was 16 and has a very poor 11 goals in 45 games.

Doubt he'll magically get better tbh.


Age is irrelevant? Pretty sure Messi had a similar international record at 21 Laughing


Yeah,just made a little research on his NT record.

13 goals in his first 44 apps rofl

Mole Proud


Yeah and he was rightly criticized for it, plus as if Messi is only scoring goals Laughing

Messi can be the best player on the pitch and not score, if Lukaku isn't scoring he isn't doing anything.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:38 pm

M99 wrote:Only counting CFs, is England's depth better than Spain? Kane, Rooney, Vardy vs Costa, Morata, Nolito. I think that is a very interesting battle.
England wins quite clearly. Morata only has 5 goals to his name despite playing for the bes team in his league. Diego Costa has a very poor record for Spain (1 goal in 10 games).
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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:45 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
rincon wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:


Reus sure, but is Muller a forward? I get that he plays on the wing for Germany, but in my mind I have trouble thinking of him as one.


Where do see Muller then? hmm
He basically plays wherever he is needed from attacking mid to CF and everything in between
To me he's a midfielder, like everyone else that plays for Pep Proud


Get with the program BC.

2015/16 Pep plays only defenders and forwards, no midfield.
Midfield is sooo 2014.

Where does England's forward line rank? - Page 2 Fc-bayern-muenchen-olympiakos-piraeus-formationen
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:48 pm

Interesting. A good example for all the people that think that Pep is an inflexible manager.
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Post by Curtinho Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:49 pm

England could look really nice going forward actually, though I'm not quite sure what formation they've been using.

Kane
Sterling - Alli - Sturridge
Barkley - Henderson

The only problem is it's young and you also know Rooney will be involved regardless of whether it's the best fit or not.
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Post by S Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:53 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
S wrote:
Cruijf wrote:


Age is irrelevant? Pretty sure Messi had a similar international record at 21 Laughing


Yeah,just made a little research on his NT record.

13 goals in his first 44 apps rofl

Mole Proud


Yeah and he was rightly criticized for it, plus as if Messi is only scoring goals Laughing

Messi can be the best player on the pitch and not score, if Lukaku isn't scoring he isn't doing anything.


Messi would be rightly called out because of the insane numbers he produces for his club.13 goals in 44 apps is very average no matter which way you look at it and he's one of the best players of all time now.

Its pretty ridiculous to write off someone's NT career at the age of 22 while taking his goal tally of how he fared as a kid into context.

I have already mentioned he's having the best season at club level in his career so far.You only have a point if he continues to produce average numbers for his NT for the next 3-4 yrs.
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Post by Cruijf Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:57 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
S wrote:
Cruijf wrote:


Age is irrelevant? Pretty sure Messi had a similar international record at 21 Laughing


Yeah,just made a little research on his NT record.

13 goals in his first 44 apps rofl

Mole Proud


Yeah and he was rightly criticized for it, plus as if Messi is only scoring goals Laughing

Messi can be the best player on the pitch and not score, if Lukaku isn't scoring he isn't doing anything.


Whether he was criticized is irrelevant, the point is he turned it around. What he was like at 21 did not define his entire NT career Laughing

And yeah goals are not everything with Messi but his all round play was poor too. At 21 he was average, that's just the truth.
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Post by Ion Creanga Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:57 pm

Is someone seriously judging a player for what he's done until 21 at professional level? rofl
That's a new low level for common sense.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:00 pm

Cruijf wrote:
Whether he was criticized is irrelevant, the point is he turned it around. What he was like at 21 did not define his entire NT career Laughing

And yeah goals are not everything with Messi but his all round play was poor too. At 21 he was average, that's just the truth.


No he wasn't, he was involved in most of Argentina's goals and was unlucky not to score himself:


MS1 from Alfred Andrew on Vimeo.

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Post by McAgger Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:37 pm

What the hell else would Muller be if not a forward?

People think he's a midfielder? Laughing
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Post by Cruijf Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:56 am

He's obviously a forward for Germany but for Bayern no one really knows where anyone plays. Total Voetball (:

@BC

Regardless he was much less decisive then than he is now. The point is he's improved a lot for his NT since 21 and there's no reason Benteke can't as well.
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