BarrileteCosmico wrote:Not to mention he's been able to do it at a ridiculously consistent basis. Part of why Ronaldo/Zidane are remembered so fondly is nostalgia as well, which I suppose Ronaldo will also benefit from after retirement, although will people be nostalgic about an era where RM did not win much?

brazilian Ronaldo is still remembered fondly even though most of his teams didn't win squat .

yeah.. but the real ronaldo won shit with brazil and had a worldcup scoring record.
add that with the many big teams he played for (most barca fans wont dislike him, milan etc) and he'll be remembered more in my opinion.
the national team trophies boost that up a lot more.

Cristiano is obviously going to be remembered

I just don't particularly agree he was unlucky to be born in this era.

El Gunner wrote:It's deep rooted in society too lean towards the guy with the cleaner more civiled rep (Messi), society doesn't quite understand and/or appreciate and condone behaviour which doesn't resemble the humble, respectful hero type. And with the constant obsession of comparing like the Messi vs Ronaldo debate, this "heronising" and "villainising" of these two stars starts to go to levels of extremism within society as it is human nature for people to classify, so Messi will be the good boy, and Ronaldo the bad guy.

Basically that.

Everone loves Bendtner and Ibrahimovic though

There's a difference between charisma and saying/doing funny shit and being viewed as whiny or a dick.


Having said that, I really don't mind Ronaldo most of the time and I think everybody knows he's an amazing goalscorer, in a game where goals are kind of the whole point.

He'll be remembered as one of the greats, for sure.

But as everyone has stated, he won't be remembered fondly.

it's funny because he will probably be remembered more endearingly by United fans then Madrid fans.

United fans sort of have the post retirement nostalgia for him already with him being gone to Madrid for so long now.

everyone else is just jealous because he is handsome and rich imo

I still disagree with the notion that he's handsome.

rwo power wrote:I still disagree with the notion that he's handsome.

Not even can be Eden Hazard to be fair.

He's basically become a rich mans version of Inzaghi/Muller. When's the last time he had a performance on the calibre of Messi vs Bayern? Only game I can think of is vs a terrible Sweden team.

That said he's still the greatest ever in his position.

B-Mac wrote: it's funny because he will probably be remembered more endearingly by United fans then Madrid fans.

United fans sort of have the post retirement nostalgia for him already with him being gone to Madrid for so long now.

everyone else is just jealous because he is handsome and rich imo

True, the biggest Ronaldo fans i've met are Man Utd fans, and why not, they got to see the Cristiano that did more than just score goals. Remember when Ronaldo used to score free kicks? when he dribbled past players and was a threat outside the box ? yea well, if only he trained his Calves a bit more..

futbol_bill wrote:He doesn't get the respect because of his attitude. Constant complaining whining, ball hog, not celebrating team, only his goals. As a player, he is no doubt one of the best of all time, but you also have to look at his number of shots and his efficiency isn't as good as one would expect. Overall, I think he and Messi are in a class by themselves, but I can think of many from years go by that I would rate higher, but different times, different game.

sportsczy wrote:Nothing to do with his looks or goalscoring performance... he's just not a likeable person and, until very recently, he was a complete punk in terms of team play. He's so arrogant and selfish on and off the pitch that you can't like him unless you're just a devout fan of his.

It's not that he doesn't have fans... he has plenty. But gets no sympathy at all among the neutral football fans while many other superstars did/do because of his behavior.

zizzle wrote:Am i imagining things or some Madrid fans on this forum were saying that they play. Etter without him on the pitch. Thats why he doesnt get the respect "he deserves", because while being the super player he is, his individualism will always cast a dark shadow on his legacy.

I agree with these for the most part. Cristiano is a great player, one of the best finishers + pure goal scorers i've seen, if not the best, but he's all about his "look at me" factor. He loves himself way too much which is fine, because everyone should love themselves, but not to an extent where it's so blatantly obvious and irritating, where the importance of "me" comes before everything else. If he were more modest and humble, rather than just trying to appear that way for PR reasons, I think he can improve to be an even better player than he is now and contribute more to the team.

To me he seems like a player who has become so full of himself because of his own hype, accomplishments, high transfer fees, hollywood lifestyle, by the praise lavished onto him by the general public + countrymen + coaches, and by his own exceptional goal tally, that it seems like he feels immune to criticism from his teammates and coaches, and has more power than anyone at the club. This type of superstar mindset usually causes rifts within the team.

For example - if Bale or Benzema tries to shoot the ball from 5 yards out rather than laying it off to CR, and the keeper saves it, CR would more than likely throw his usual whiny tantrum, yelling at his teammate while flapping his arms around. If CR does the same in Bale/Benzema's position, and misses, then everyone is much more forgiving and there are usually very little, if any repercussions. He gets away with WAY more than his fellow attackers could ever get away with. This is why he has such a high shot count throughout his career. Another example would be the CL final vs Atletico a few years back. Di Maria, Ramos, Bale were the heroes of that game, all much better than CR. CR didn't play well at all (quite shit that game, actually) in one of the biggest games of his career, and didn't look to care to celebrate the earlier goals, but when HE scored the penalty to make it 4-1.. he didn't hesitate for a second to tear off his shirt and go flex at the fans with the typical celebration he does while expecting his teammates to flock over and hug him. Anyone with eyes can see that he's the ultimate narcissist in the most extreme sense of the word.

He's not a leader because he doesn't have the maturity or mental capabilites and fortitude to take a leadership role, despite how good of a player he is, which is why I don't believe he's a good captain. He's the type of player to sulk if things aren't going his way, rather than find a solution. Zidane didn't have the stats like CR for many reasons, but the main one I believe its because he was there for the team first, and personal glory second. Though they are completely different players with different roles, they differ in overall value to their respective teams, especially at international level, as evidenced by how much better France were with Zidane than without him. Stoichkov is another example for Bulgaria in '94, Robben in '14 etc. They didn't need their teams built to cater to them..

CR played his best football for Portugal in the Euro 2004 tournament, which I remember very vividly. He was an 18-year-old playing on the wing and I remember being in awe of how good and effective he was. I knew there that he would become a superstar. He was much more of a team player, with great speed and dribbling ability, who never hesitated to make the correct pass. It's true that Portugal had a much stronger team at the time, but individually he was just much more effective, and his performances for NT started going downhill from there. Figo was a much better captain than CR was/is, and I think it's mostly for mindset/maturity reasons.

I also agree with Mole that he's lucky to be playing in the Messi era because both of their teams are built with them being the main attacking focus, and it allows them to put up similar tallies. So people who don't really watch games can check the scores and be like "DAMN, CR scored 4 goals today!! best player ever" , and it gives the clueless public, many who claim to be big footfall fans this great illusion that somehow the two players are on a similar level, sparking the Messi vs CR rivalry, whereas if you ignore just the goal outputs, watch the games, and ask the educated fans who watch both players, they'll tell you that one is a much better overall footballer than the other, especially in big games and not vs lower table teams where stat-padding is just fun times.

Now I realize that I might seem like a CR hater with this post, but believe me, i'm far from that. He was one of my favorite players when I was younger (and he was younger) , and I was inspired by him and looked up to him. I still think he's one of the best players i've ever seen in terms of ability and talent, but I am not a fan of his feminine, pretty-boy persona, on-the-field whining and tantrums, and inability to be happy for his teammates when things aren't going his way. I guess I just had higher hopes for him, because I think he could've been much bigger than he is now (which is saying a lot)

what happened to Ronaldo's game is still a mystery to me .

if you told me few years ago that the kid i saw in Euro 2004 would turn into a ruthless direct finisher with no flare to his game , i would've had a hard time imagining it .

zizzle wrote:

B-Mac wrote: it's funny because he will probably be remembered more endearingly by United fans then Madrid fans.

United fans sort of have the post retirement nostalgia for him already with him being gone to Madrid for so long now.

everyone else is just jealous because he is handsome and rich imo

True, the biggest Ronaldo fans i've met are Man Utd fans, and why not, they got to see the Cristiano that did more than just score goals. Remember when Ronaldo used to score free kicks? when he dribbled past players and was a threat outside the box ? yea well, if only he trained his Calves a bit more..

He turns 31 in january, if I'm not mistaken. What I get from reading comments about him on the internet, is that: people still expect him to perform as if he was still 22. Since he doesn't, he kind of sucks. He's been a poacher for two years now, which means that he'll be remembered as a POS poacher because he sucks and his name is actually Cristina. He's so affeminate that he can't possibly be a good player. Someone watched him play recently, and he looked slow - which obviously means that he's never been fast, and his speed has always been overrated. The internet

He joined Madrid when he was 25 but he was a very old man by then and we cant expect him to play there like he did at United. Understood

zizzle wrote:He joined Madrid when he was 25 but he was a very old man by then and we cant expect him to play there like he did at United. Understood

Yes, that's exactly what I meant to say. You are super intelligent.

Phenomenal beast and will be remembered as a top 20 GOAT. He aint done yet.

he gets the props he deserves. but there's obviously the messi thing, and its difficult for any objective fan of the game to shove that aside, especially considering team trophies....and its not like we are a garbage team at madrid, we've constantly been stocking up on players so one can't just say "oh messi plays with these guys and cristiano plays with those guys"

the one major issue with cristiano is leadership as some have mentioned. i think he's a player who thrives well playing with natural leaders. at utd he had scholes, giggs, rio and co. portugal figo, rui costa, deco. those kind of players recognize talent. they recognized that cristiano is good and extremely motivated, so all we need to do is get him the ball and calm him down if he starts getting hot headed...guys like figo, zizou, xavi, pirlo etc are able to recognize the talent on their team and play to that talent, which is why they don't necessarily have the stats people crave for these days

cristiano on the other hand is very much like kobe bryant. great players, and all time greats in any unbiased fan's list. but their problem is they have that "if i don't score, my team can't win" personality. they'll give the occasional "assist" but  they hardly compromise their game to get others going. as a result, when professional players or ex-players are being asked to rate them, they dock points for how they operate in a team capacity

all that being said, you can't deny their skill level. and as i said, i think cristiano gets a lot of respect. i mean if he got anymore respect it'll probably look like he's pele in the 80s (i know now its popular for people to insult pele, but at one time years after he retired he was almost like the god of the sport)....and cristiano still has more to do if he wants such props; more silverware and success with portugal as well

Sorry but the comparison to Kobe is way out of the left field. Sure, you can compare how stubborn they are as far as their personality on or off the field, but Kobe was a super super clutch player. He had the scoring, and the clutch performances that go with it. I am pretty sure that if CR had that as well, all the "criticism" would wash away.And same thing with Pele, another super clutch performer...

there was no comparison with pele. my point is, cr gets a lot of props as is, if we were to give him more props it would almost make him look like pele, when we know that isn't the case. as far as kobe, clutch he may be, but i'm looking at it in the similar way i look at cristiano's free kicks. kobe takes too many shots, one's bound to go in. even phil jackson said when kobe's having a bad shooting night, rather than defer to others, and create he'll just continue chalking up shots.

He has too much respect. 3 Ballon d'ors when he really didn't deserve more than 2...

He gets all the praises he deserve.

Great talent and i am blessed to watch him play. GOAT

zigra wrote:

El Gunner wrote:It's deep rooted in society too lean towards the guy with the cleaner more civiled rep (Messi), society doesn't quite understand and/or appreciate and condone behaviour which doesn't resemble the humble, respectful hero type. And with the constant obsession of comparing like the Messi vs Ronaldo debate, this "heronising" and "villainising" of these two stars starts to go to levels of extremism within society as it is human nature for people to classify, so Messi will be the good boy, and Ronaldo the bad guy.

Basically that.

Everone loves Bendtner and Ibrahimovic though

Tomwin Lannister wrote:There's a difference between charisma and saying/doing funny shit and being viewed as whiny or a dick.

Basically Tom

He gets the respect he desreves. Using Ballon D'or as an indicator of a persons ability is a misnomer. The fact people forget here is that football is a team game and the purpose of these things is to win trophies.

I don't think he is the 2nd best player of this generation, Xavi is ahead of him for the reason I stated above. CR has been in a super team for about 5 years and the rate of trophies return is pathetic to be very honest. Did Madrid pay 80 mill for him to break Rauls goal scoring record? Raul was clutch in 2 cl finals and has multiple league titles while with CR as the main man at RM, Madrid have one league title since 2009, the same as Atletico Madrid.

Another thing is the absolute elites of each generation where able to create and score in varying degrees, Puskas, Di Stefano, Cruijff, Messi, Gaarincha, Pele, Mardona etc CR quite frankly is just a goal scorer, you can't mask it any other way. Outside of his goals (which most are set up by team members) he offers nothing tangible to his team.

Also a major criticism of him is that at key moments he doesn't step up. This is all in hindsight of course. When we one the cl he scored a goal but the key moment in that game was his pen and he missed. Against Bayern in the semis again that was the biggest moment for him in the game he missed. Last season he scored basically two tap ins against Juve but did absolutely nothing else. As far as I'm concerned, he is not even on the same level as Gerd Muller as Muller had the stats and the trophies because he turned up in the absolute key moments.  

This is the era of stats now, not team play. CR might have the stats but his lack of team play (which hinders Madrid) and him failing to lead Madrid to major trophies over his time at Madrid means he will never rank anywhere near the very elite for me. Also Madrids 2 biggest trophy wins under Ancelotti 3 if you cont the CWC, CR did nothing in those games. He didn't play the copa final and was useless in the final. Scored a penalty and that for me summed him up. His drive and determination to score is second to none and his dedication to his body is admirable but there is nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade.

CR can score 900 goals for Madrid but if they don't win how is he the best? Makes 0 sense. Individual talent MUST translate to team success. It has been that way since the start of football and CRs stat padding wont make me see it any other way.