BPL teams (not) taking the EL seriously?

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:00 pm

Dunno why teams don't try tbh.

We got to the quarter finals the last time we was in it and really should have got to the semis, i'll remember those games more than i ever will majority of PL seasons tbh.

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Post by djfawnz Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:08 pm

It is really funny how, when Serie A lost the 4th place for CL mainly attributes to no Italian team caring at all for the EL, posters said it's because the league is sh!@. Now when BPL is on the verge of losing a spot because of their performance in EL (also in CL), it is 100% because EPL teams don't care about that puny 2nd european cup :coffee:
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:13 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Dunno why teams don't try tbh.

We got to the quarter finals the last time we was in it and really should have got to the semis, i'll remember those games more than i ever will majority of PL seasons tbh.


Teams try.
But as dnmac said, sometimes they do have to prioritize.

Sometimes small teams reach EL spots by overperforming, and then it's a real problem that they don't have the squad to cope with the extra competition.
Nürnberg once got relegated while playing UEFA cup, while having won the Pokal and finishing 5th the season before.

Then again, Nürnberg are one of a kind as far as hilarious, lovable failures are concerned.

Augsburg might struggle in the league this year too.

I can only say, when we missed CL participation back then, we took the UEFA Cup seriously in 07/08.
Luca Toni scoring two improbable late extra time goals to turn the quarter against Getafe around.
We got crushed by Zenith, and noone assumed we didn't care.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:16 pm

Pls Hans.

Don't tell me West Ham was trying when their teams wasn't even 2nd choice Laughing
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:21 pm

West Ham weren't really trying no.
In fact, I believe they're kicking and fouling players a bit extra right now to make sure they'll never get awarded the fair play spot again.
But their stunt will end up hurting the PL.

Also who knows if they had won had they 'tried'.

I really wonder if the attitude is going to change once the 4th spot trophy turns into the 3rd spot trophy.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:24 pm

When i say not trying, i mean the club in general isn't. I'm sure the players themselves try their best.
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Post by Gil Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:27 pm

An English team won it two years ago despite playing their B team for the majority of games. Teams just don't take it seriously unfortunately.
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Post by Curtinho Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:37 pm

It is a weird mentality. Always playing B teams and C teams in cup competitions that aren't the CL. The Europa league should still have enough prestige for teams to do their best to win it, but I guess most just consider domestic league to be more important.

Obviously players generally go out and try their best to win every game, but it's plainly obvious that it's just not given the same significance via management, etc.
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Post by Dnmac4 Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:47 pm

Gil wrote:An English team won it two years ago despite playing their B team for the majority of games. Teams just don't take it seriously unfortunately.


That isn't the case.  Chelsea have one of the biggest squads I have ever seen so for them to play second string players there generally really good players.

I mean Cuadrado is a 30 million dollar player who wasn't even third string for Chelsea.  

They prioritized getting 4th in the league over the EL and then won the EL because Chelsea have a great deep squad and were the best team in the competition and barely won in the final against Benfica.

They didn't "not take it seriously" again, it's EPL fans who use this kind of language.

Here was there team in the final,

GK 1 Petr Čech
RB 28 César Azpilicueta
CB 2 Branislav Ivanović
CB 24 Gary Cahill
LB 3 Ashley Cole
CM 8 Frank Lampard (c)
CM 4 David Luiz
RW 7 Ramires
AM 10 Juan Mata
LW 11 Oscar Booked 14'
CF 9 Fernando Torres
Substitutes:
GK 22 England Ross Turnbull
DF 19 Portugal Paulo Ferreira
MF 12 Nigeria John Obi Mikel
MF 21 Germany Marko Marin
MF 30 Israel Yossi Benayoun
MF 57 Netherlands Nathan Aké
FW 13 Nigeria Victor Moses

And the semi final squad
   01 Cech
   02 Ivanovic
   04 David Luiz (Ake 81)
   24 Cahill
   28 Azpilicueta yellow card
   34 Bertrand
   07 Ramires (Oscar 66)
   08 Lampard
   13 Moses
   17 Hazard (Mata 75)
   09 Torres

Substitutes

   22 Turnbull,
   19 Ferreira,
   26 Terry,
   10 Mata,
   11 Oscar,
   30 Benayoun,
   57 Ake

These are strong squads of mostly first team players.  Again I don't know why EPL fans have this we won with out try attitude. Or we lost because we didn't try.
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Post by Dnmac4 Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:51 pm

Curtinho wrote:It is a weird mentality. Always playing B teams and C teams in cup competitions that aren't the CL. The Europa league should still have enough prestige for teams to do their best to win it, but I guess most just consider domestic league to be more important.

Obviously players generally go out and try their best to win every game, but it's plainly obvious that it's just not given the same significance via management, etc.


Agreed to some extent but if you look at the rosters EPL sides put out the deeper they go in the tournament you see they play there best players most of the time.

PS. I wouldn't fault any team with a realistic shot of winning there league or finishing in a CL spot to prioritize the league over Europa League. Hell in Spain Barca flat out will tell you winning the league is more important than the Champions league.

Also, a lot of these larger teams "b sides" cost 10 times as much as some of the teams there playing and there manager makes 10 times as much as the other. They should still be able to advance.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:53 pm

Not talking about Chelsea but most English clubs don't try.

I'm not talking about the players, but the clubs in general don't.

To use an example, if a basketball team "tanked" that's the case of the organisation but the players themselves try. It's the same case here with most English clubs in the EL.

Not everything is a conspiracy to be over-analyzed lol.
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Post by rwo power Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:54 pm

But what about now with the CL entry as prize? Wouldn't that be sufficient incentive for English clubs?
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Post by Dnmac4 Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:55 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:When i say not trying, i mean the club in general isn't. I'm sure the players themselves try their best.
This

There is a difference and it's one of the reason LA Liga fans get annoyed with EPL fans as when Man United lost to Bilbao EPL fans everywhere were saying, "Oh we just didn't try" even though they put out there best lineup.

They went for it and lost.  Flat out.

And also not prioritizing it and not taking it seriously is two different things.  It's also a great scouting ground for young players.  A lot of strikers have made there names in this tournament.
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Post by LeBéninois Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:56 pm

It's not just about BPL team .

-Fans don't care : How many of of you watch it seriously ( not only about the semi-finals and further)
-Sponsors don't really care otherwise there would be more money for the teams
-Managers just hope their best players don't get injuired so they use players who need game time ( they are motivated )

I've already heard many coach say just after an elimination '' Now, we can focus on the league ''.

Anyways i like to watch random teams in EL, I like to watch Dnipro and teams from others leagues tha I never watch. It's more fun and they give their all. the level might not be the best but there is less calculation.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:56 pm

You would think so wouldn't you but there's already one English team are quite clearly thought it was a waste of their time.

I'm personally very much against that attitude and feel sorry for the fans of said club who spend their wages to go abroad and watch their team rest all their players.

But sadly it is what it is, i wish all english teams approached it like Southampton who genuinely want to win it. I doubt they will tbf, but if you don't try you don't get anything.
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Post by Dnmac4 Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:58 pm

rwo power wrote:But what about now with the CL entry as prize? Wouldn't that be sufficient incentive for English clubs?
English clubs try.  It's just generally the better teams get out of the group stages of the CL and the lower level English sides are crap in Europe.

Hell the EPL has been Crap in Europe forever compared to it's counterparts except for a 4-5 year span when they owned the CL.
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Post by rwo power Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:58 pm

LeBéninois wrote:I've already heard many coach say just after an elimination '' Now, we can focus on the league ''.
This statement has always sounded like sour grapes to me, TBH Laughing
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Post by Dnmac4 Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:01 pm

LeBéninois wrote:It's not just about BPL team .

-Fans don't care : How many of of you watch it seriously ( not only about the semi-finals and further)
-Sponsors don't really care otherwise there would be more money for the teams
-Managers just hope their best players don't get injuired so they use players who need game time ( they are motivated )

I've already heard many coach say just after an elimination '' Now, we can focus on the league ''.

Anyways i like to watch random teams in EL, I like to watch Dnipro and teams from others leagues tha I never watch. It's more fun and they give their all. the level might not be the best but there is less calculation.

I agree it's not EPL teams as most of them do try there just not good enough to win.  
Italian teams for a long time flat out didn't care (which isn't the case anymore) and it's killed them taking there 4th CL spot away.  They try now.

It's just EPL fans are more vocal and use the we didn't try as a crutch more than any other league.
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Post by Dnmac4 Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:03 pm

rwo power wrote:
LeBéninois wrote:I've already heard many coach say just after an elimination '' Now, we can focus on the league ''.
This statement has always sounded like sour grapes to me, TBH Laughing
Agreed, it's coach speak.

Again like I said in a previous post, the EL can embarrass you as a coach and a team almost like losing to a second division team in the FA Cup but not quite as bad.

So they say there going to concentrate on the league as if they weren't doing that anyways.
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Post by Curtinho Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:05 pm

I don't disagree with you. I guess it's why the game is played and not simmed. Razz The number of 'good' teams that tend to lose early in the Europa and even domestic cup competitions definitely makes you scratch your head sometimes -- even if they are playing their 2nd or 3rd string players which are usually still considered too good for those other teams.
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Post by McAgger Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:17 pm

Liverpool took it seriously the last 2 times were were in it. It just so happened that Rodgers had no idea how to win a 2 legged tie so we lost to both Zenit and Besiktas.
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Post by Dnmac4 Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:31 pm

Don't call me James wrote:Liverpool took it seriously the last 2 times were were in it. It just so happened that Rodgers had no idea how to win a 2 legged tie so we lost to both Zenit and Besiktas.
Which there's no shame in really.  Zenit and Besiktas are two good teams and places you don't want to go on the road to.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:32 pm

Gil blatantly lying lol.

I even heard Chelsea fans complaining that Benitez prioritized the 'vanity' EL win for him over the league games in the end Laughing

Curtinho, dnmac has demonstrated PL teams are by no means fielding their B-teams.
They're fielding their A-teams, with the exception of West Ham.

Let's put that myth to bed then.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:36 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Gil blatantly lying lol.

I even heard Chelsea fans complaining that Benitez prioritized the 'vanity' EL win for him over the league games in the end Laughing

Curtinho, dnmac has demonstrated PL teams are by no means fielding their B-teams.
They're fielding their A-teams, with the exception of West Ham.

Let's put that myth to bed then.


Not really they are lol, it's not a myth at all. Even when we were in it despite the fact we made it to the quarters we played our B team lol.

No need for your german agenda :coffee:
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Post by futbol Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:02 pm

The EPL fan Newspeak is always fascinating.

EPL clubs aren't actually incapable. They are just not taking the EL seriously.

When Manchester United don't win they aren't shit. They are just "in transition".

When Manchester United keep losing their best players to better clubs like Real Madrid it's not because Manchester United is a smaller, less successful, less attractive club. After all, United is the biggest club of all time. It's just the weather's or an annoying girlfriend's fault.

When EPL clubs bottle it in the CL yet again and are on the verge to losing their 4th CL spot it's not because they suck. It's because "it goes in cycles".

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:05 pm

"Barca didn't try when they lost 4-0 to Milan" - Johan Cruyff.

hmm
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