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Post by Helmer on Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:41 pm

@Thimmy wrote:
@Helmer wrote:OLE continue to be IN and ever :bow:
I would not mind these 3rd or 4th finishes being 33 points away from the top, long may it continue !


Yeah... I'd argue you had a pretty strong team already, but here's where you were before Van Dijk and co came along.

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ohh thanks Laughing completely forgotten, you were equally irrelevant as well being 19 points behind city

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Post by Uncanny on Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:58 pm

@Thimmy wrote:Well, one the flipside, you have Greenwood - who seems like a natural at finishing. His precision never ceases to amaze me, and he's ambidextrous as well. Only 18 years old, and he's such an exciting, homegrown prospect.


isnt that what we said about rashford when he first came into the scene?
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Post by Firenze on Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:46 pm

nah, his finishing was sus then and united fans thought it would improve - it hasn't
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Post by Thimmy on Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:08 am

@Helmer wrote:
@Thimmy wrote:
@Helmer wrote:OLE continue to be IN and ever :bow:
I would not mind these 3rd or 4th finishes being 33 points away from the top, long may it continue !


Yeah... I'd argue you had a pretty strong team already, but here's where you were before Van Dijk and co came along.

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ohh thanks Laughing completely forgotten, you were equally irrelevant as well being 19 points behind city


Is that supposed to be "a jab" at me? Rolling Eyes I'm not a Man United fan, yet I had to watch through Mourinho's depressing anti-football, or the best achievement of his career, in his own words. It's not like I think they deserved anything that season. City was the only club in the EPL that looked like a top team consistently, since Liverpool's offense didn't compensate for the shaky defense.

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Post by Glory on Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:51 pm

@Firenze wrote:
@Thimmy wrote:The cluelessness continues hmm Rashford continues to convince me that he's a relatively underwhelming finisher at this level of football.

I don't think he's good enough to be a starter for a top 4 club tbh

I kinda hope we cash-in on him and improve his position but I can't imagine that happening, he seems nailed on for us going forward. Shame.


Surprising you guys are still dont rate him. He is not clinical, that's because he is definitely not a center forward. What he is though, is quite an exciting footballer who I personally would trade for no one at this stage really.. (on second thought may be for Mbappe hmm ). The lad's mentality is elite, is a big game player and is quite mercurial. On form, he can toy with any defense. We have seen that when he was scoring for fun pre-his injury and was even a shout for top scorer in the league. Literally carrying us when no one was there. Again a cue to his mentality. If we sell him he will fetch definitely 100m if not more.

Post lockdown though, he has struggled a bit, but he is always like that, whenever he comes back from a layoff, he takes a while to get going. Having said that, Rashford's passing has improved leaps recently and is more  of a creator than he was before. Just 23, I can see him reaching the levels of a Sadio Mane in the future and that would be fine for me really.

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Post by Thimmy on Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:00 am

@Glory wrote:
@Firenze wrote:
@Thimmy wrote:The cluelessness continues hmm Rashford continues to convince me that he's a relatively underwhelming finisher at this level of football.

I don't think he's good enough to be a starter for a top 4 club tbh

I kinda hope we cash-in on him and improve his position but I can't imagine that happening, he seems nailed on for us going forward. Shame.


Surprising you guys are still dont rate him. He is not clinical, that's because he is definitely not a center forward. What he is though, is quite an exciting footballer who I personally would trade for no one at this stage really.. (on second thought may be for Mbappe hmm ). The lad's mentality is elite, is a big game player and is quite mercurial. On form, he can toy with any defense. We have seen that when he was scoring for fun pre-his injury and was even a shout for top scorer in the league. Literally carrying us when no one was there. Again a cue to his mentality. If we sell him he will fetch definitely 100m if not more.

Post lockdown though, he has struggled a bit, but he is always like that, whenever he comes back from a layoff, he takes a while to get going. Having said that, Rashford's passing has improved leaps recently and is more  of a creator than he was before. Just 23, I can see him reaching the levels of a Sadio Mane in the future and that would be fine for me really.


He's still young, and he undoubtedly has some good qualities, but I think he's far too limited overall, in order to ever reach a level close to Sadio Mane. I'm willing to bet that he doesn't. What aspect of Rashford's game is even comparable to Mane? Speed? Height? Mane's ability to put sustainable pressure on opposing defenses, throughout an entire league season, is what makes him such a reliable player. He's a clinical goalscorer, as well. I think Rashford drifts in and out of form over the course of a league season, and although that's perfectly normal for most players, it anchors him at a pretty safe distance behind Mane.

He's clearly not a center forward, which was very evident when so much pressure was put on him to provide goals at the start of the season. Man United were 9 points behind 4th place at one point. Goalscoring was an issue and Rashford was, by no means, the solution. Rashford is a good, occasionally great player who may still improve, but I honestly think he's closer to Lingard's level of talent, than that of Mane. Or perhaps Danny Ings? Plus the speed, minus the goalscoring ability.

His finishing looks great in one moment, but awful in the next. He runs defenders ragged in one match, then can't beat a defender for the life of him in the next one. Natural talent aside, it's consistency that separates elite players from very good ones, and Mane eats Rashford for breakfast in terms of sustainable quality, talent and goalscoring instinct.


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Post by Arquitecto on Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:03 am

Rashford is a total scrub. Can end up having a decent career not much beyond that. He is absurdly limited for what is expected of him and you simply cannot build a line around someone like that let alone Manchester United.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:40 am

If Rashford ego would allow it i could see a scenario where he could carve a decent career for himself as a winger/forward.

He's just not a striker but he's been typedcast as one since he was a teenager.
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Post by Thimmy on Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:57 pm

@Uncanny wrote:
@Thimmy wrote:Well, one the flipside, you have Greenwood - who seems like a natural at finishing. His precision never ceases to amaze me, and he's ambidextrous as well. Only 18 years old, and he's such an exciting, homegrown prospect.


isnt that what we said about rashford when he first came into the scene?


Apparently, Mason Greenwood recorded the highest running speed after Daniel James for Man United in 19-20. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's the second fastest player in the squad, but he really looks like a gem of a player, purely based on his natural qualities and all-roundedness. Only 18 years old, and he possesses so much pure talent.

Rashford may have been an exciting, homegrown prospect, but his abilities never stood out to the same extent. Personally, I think Rashford looked like he made the most of the abilities he had when he broke through to the first team. Greenwood looks like he should be capable of more, based on his respective talents.

You can't teach the clinical, ambidextrous finishing ability that he possesses. Nor the intelligence and technical ability. No one knows what the future of Greenwood looks like, and talent doesn't always translate to something exceptional, but he's got all of the tools to succeed. Rashford will have to continue to work with what he's got, and what he's got isn't quite as exceptional or awe inspiring.

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Post by Glory on Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:41 pm

@Thimmy wrote:
@Glory wrote:
@Firenze wrote:

I don't think he's good enough to be a starter for a top 4 club tbh

I kinda hope we cash-in on him and improve his position but I can't imagine that happening, he seems nailed on for us going forward. Shame.


Surprising you guys are still dont rate him. He is not clinical, that's because he is definitely not a center forward. What he is though, is quite an exciting footballer who I personally would trade for no one at this stage really.. (on second thought may be for Mbappe hmm ). The lad's mentality is elite, is a big game player and is quite mercurial. On form, he can toy with any defense. We have seen that when he was scoring for fun pre-his injury and was even a shout for top scorer in the league. Literally carrying us when no one was there. Again a cue to his mentality. If we sell him he will fetch definitely 100m if not more.

Post lockdown though, he has struggled a bit, but he is always like that, whenever he comes back from a layoff, he takes a while to get going. Having said that, Rashford's passing has improved leaps recently and is more  of a creator than he was before. Just 23, I can see him reaching the levels of a Sadio Mane in the future and that would be fine for me really.


He's still young, and he undoubtedly has some good qualities, but I think he's far too limited overall, in order to ever reach a level close to Sadio Mane. I'm willing to bet that he doesn't. What aspect of Rashford's game is even comparable to Mane? Speed? Height? Mane's ability to put sustainable pressure on opposing defenses, throughout an entire league season, is what makes him such a reliable player. He's a clinical goalscorer, as well. I think Rashford drifts in and out of form over the course of a league season, and although that's perfectly normal for most players, it anchors him at a pretty safe distance behind Mane.

He's clearly not a center forward, which was very evident when so much pressure was put on him to provide goals at the start of the season. Man United were 9 points behind 4th place at one point. Goalscoring was an issue and Rashford was, by no means, the solution. Rashford is a good, occasionally great player who may still improve, but I honestly think he's closer to Lingard's level of talent, than that of Mane. Or perhaps Danny Ings? Plus the speed, minus the goalscoring ability.

His finishing looks great in one moment, but awful in the next. He runs defenders ragged in one match, then can't beat a defender for the life of him in the next one. Natural talent aside, it's consistency that separates elite players from very good ones, and Mane eats Rashford for breakfast in terms of sustainable quality, talent and goalscoring instinct.


What. scratch How is he closer to Lingard's level if he at 22 years of age has almost equal stat as Mane this season (Rashford has 17 goals and 7 assists where as Mane 18 and 7 in the prem), that too when majority of his contributions were coming pre-Bruno. Just pointed it out and ofc I am not comparing Rashford to Mane as stats arent everything. Just said he can reach that level, there's a 6 years age difference between the 2 you know. Mane was still playing in Austria I think when he was 22.

Goal scoring was an issue like you said, that's because morons like Lingard and Pereira where playing behind him. Martial wasnt available either when Rashford was playing as a CF. Yet he bailed the team out multiple times, despite not being a natural as a 9. I dont know what more you can expect from a youngish player in a shit team like the one we had.
If he is limited that much how is getting 20 goals a season. He may not be as naturally talented as say a Martial or Greenwood, but as I said his determination and drive will always make him constantly kick on and improve in the future and reach heights.

Anyway since most people on here dont rate Rashford, even including Firenze Neutral , theres' no point going on with this any further. let's see next season how he fares in a much better team that we are going to have. And lets see how's his career is going to shape up. I for one is confident he is going to make it big as a player.

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Post by Glory on Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:12 pm

So, back to the topic on Solskjaer, really happy with him, considering everything. Done a remarkable job with the rebuild so far. However not so sure still whether he's got in the tank to take this team to the next level, considering some of the naivety he's displayed. No plan B barring defending for life. His in-game management leaves a lot to be desired. His squad management too is pretty poor. No rotation whatsoever, even someone like Matic wasnt replaced when he had the chance with a Fred for example and it nearly cost us.
Anyway, luckily got that CL spot and now we can get some deals done hopefully.

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Post by RealGunner on Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:46 pm

Rashford is definitely twice the player Lingard is. I mean he is 22 and ended the season with 22 goals overall which is really good for someone who isn't an outright striker.

His best position is the Aubameyang position. He will improve his erratic finishing with time so he is worth keeping.


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Post by Thimmy on Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:27 pm

@RealGunner wrote:Rashford is definitely twice the player Lingard is. I mean he is 22 and ended the season with 22 goals overall which is really good for someone who isn't an outright striker.

His best position is the Aubameyang position. He will improve his erratic finishing with time so he is worth keeping.




He is better than Lingard, but I rest my case that he's closer to Lingard than Sadio Mané. A better way of saying it, is perhaps that his skillset is closer to that of Lingard, than that of Mané.

His stats for this season are good. He's had some good to great streaks of performances in this oddly short season of football, but like Glory already pointed out, stats don't tell the whole story. Can you tell me with a straight face that Rashford's stats for Man United this season indicate that he had a similar impact for Man United, that Sadio had for Liverpool? Regardless of that, my point is that I don't see the potential in Rashford, that Mané has already reached. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that, for now.

As for his erratic finishing. Again, we'll just have to see how that pans out in the future. Personally, I don't think you can easily learn to be a sustainably clinical finisher. Rashford's relatively young age is often referred to in his defense, but like I mentioned earlier, 18 year old, Greenwood already looks like a far, far superior finisher with both feet. That's not something you can take for granted that will come with age. I wish it did... for Vinicius' sake.


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Post by Don't call me James on Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:27 pm

Damn, didn't realize GL still didn't rate Rashford. I used to be on the same boat when he was scrubbing it hard to get 10 goals a season and English media was proclaiming the second coming of Christ but this season he's really stepped up. I can see him turning into a world class wide forward, his progression has been impressive.

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Post by Thimmy on Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:51 pm

@Don't call me James wrote:Damn, didn't realize GL still didn't rate Rashford. I used to be on the same boat when he was scrubbing it hard to get 10 goals a season and English media was proclaiming the second coming of Christ but this season he's really stepped up. I can see him turning into a world class wide forward, his progression has been impressive.  


It's not that I don't rate him, at all. He's a counter-attacking threat with his blistering pace and work rate, and he's done a relatively good job within the confinements of his ability this season.

He likely has a bright future ahead of him at Man United, and I don't doubt that fans will continue to appreciate him when he displays streaks of good to great performances, like he did just before the Covid break, but I see him as more of a great athlete than an exceptionally talented footballer. Personally, I would pick someone with more natural talent, if I wanted to challenge for titles.

Jadon Sancho doesn't strike me as a natural finisher either, but he's undoubtedly better at it than Rashford is, and he's got additional weapons in his intelligence and fantastic dribbling ability, as well. I think the general opinion on Rashford will shift if next season sees the two of them operate on opposing sides of Man United's attack.

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Post by danyjr on Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:17 pm

Personally I'd take Rashford over Vinícius any day.

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Post by Thimmy on Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:38 am

Both Vinicius and Rashford have in common that their allround games are relatively underwhelming. They can play well when they aren’t forced to do the many things that they aren’t particularly good at. I do expect Vinicius to have a higher ceilling than Rashford, but these things are impossible to predict - especially, when it comes to Brazilian players.

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Post by danyjr on Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:16 pm

I think @Glory made a good statement backed by numbers. 17 goals and 7 assists in EPL is actually very good for a 22 year old who doesn't even play as a striker. Vinícius could only dream to have such numbers even in La Liga.

I think Rashford can turn into a Neymar type player if he improves his playmaking ability, something I've noticed he has been trying to do lately. As for goals, believe it or not Neymar wasn't a lethal goalscorer either, certainly not at 22. Imagine playing with Messi and Suárez and only registering 7 assists and 20 goals in lol liga Laughing

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Post by Thimmy on Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:13 am

Well, if you're going to use stats as an indication of capability or actual productiveness, then I suppose the fact that Rashford was out with injury for a while, not to mention that he was firing blanks during the start of the season, makes it even more impressive that he ended up with those numbers. My point isn't that he can't score goals or make himself useful, I think he's proven that he can play well when he plays to his strengths. He often plays well when the rest of the team is ticking, and often in bursts at a time.

But for me, that doesn't change the fact that his set of skills is limited, and if I wanted my club to challenge for trophies, I would have preferred to acquire a more well rounded forward than him. The way I see it, he's moreso a utility player than a forward who can adapt and cause problems to defenses in a number of ways, and I believe every club with trophy ambitions needs the latter.

Mourinho was quite transparent in his criticism of Rashford, and that didn't change when Rash was, perhaps unfairly, burdened with the task of providing goals at the start of the season. Mourinho was, ultimately, wrong in his prediction for where Man United would end up on the table, but I think it would be farfetched to argue that Rashford was a catalyst for the club's change in fortune. They were 13 points behind 3rd placed, Leicester back in january, when Rashford was nursing his injury.


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